I say Warrick Over TJ.

[schweinhart]

For Housh to be appreciably cheaper to retain than P-Dub, it would take the equivalent of a 3 yr deal w/ $3 million to sign and $1 mill base (a $2 mill cap hit in 2005). But Housh seems to be highly coveted by other teams, so I'm guessing he tests the market and lands more than what P-Dub's cap hit would be.

Tough choice number 2.

[HoosierCat]

For Housh to be appreciably cheaper to retain than P-Dub, it would take the equivalent of a 3 yr deal w/ $3 million to sign and $1 mill base (a $2 mill cap hit in 2005). But Housh seems to be highly coveted by other teams, so I'm guessing he tests the market and lands more than what P-Dub's cap hit would be.

Tough choice number 2.

Agreed. Just to clarify, I mean that resigning TJ this year will be cheaper than resigning Warrick next year, assuming Warrick comes back to have a good year in '05.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Okay walshfan, you favor PW over TJ, but to me it's like to comparing apples to more apples. Pretty good apples too, if I may say so myself. The way I feel about the whole subject of Bengals receivers is that it be as deep as possible in quality players like both of these guy's.

IMO the offensive air attack suffered last season for three major reasons.

#1: Carson Palmers learning curve. Hey, it happens to everyQB. The sooner it's over, the better. I think Carson Palmer has progressed through the largest part of this curve in 2004, and should have it completed sometime well before the Bengals first playoff game in 2005. (Yeah...I said it second. I heard Josh Kirkendall say it first!)

#2: An offensive line that due to injuries was in a state of constant transition in 2004. It started with the very first game of the season in New York against the Jets with a starting center picked up from New Orleans at the last minute, and never really subsided, so the pass protection suffered as well as the run blocking. Not that it was horrible, but you can't deny it left room for improvement. I feel for an offensive line to play at it's best, they have to be used to playing together so they know each others habits and tendencies. Hopefully next season the offensive line will jell, and Cincinnati starts owning the L.O.S.!

#3: A distinct lack of experienced depth in receivers for Carsons passes. With Peter Warrick out for essentially the entire year, teams were constantly doubling up on Chad! Not until the final third of the season did some other players (TJ in particular) start picking up the slack and raising the level of their play. Like I said before, the Bengals should be as deep as possible in players with the ability of Chad, Peter, and TJ. If one receiver is lost due to injury, another steps in with no loss in the Bengals ability to strike through the air.

I understand fairly well the financial dynamics of todays game and the players within it. Often it precludes obtaining the very depth I feel a team needs to be successful. Organizations with a solid, focused, and knowledgeable head coach who's working on the same page with a cooperative management/ownership seem to find ways around these obstacles. (i.e. Bill Cowher and the Steelers, Bill Belichick and the Patriots) IMO, this is one of Marvin Lewis's strong points, and will become increasingly evident as his tenure as the Bengals head coach grow in years. :player:

[TubThumper]

walsh, you're hitting it on the head about Warrick.  Warrick just started to emerge as a reasonably reliable possession receiver last year.  He also started running up field a little more on punts and it showed.  He may be a valuable blocker and until TJ emerged he may have been the only off-set to Chad Johnson the Bengals had in the pass patterns, but he's been very pedestrian up to now.  After all that, he's more dangerous as a receiver catching short routes to keep drives alive or springing a big run than he is running by people for the long gain.

And the guy who says that TJ isn't a playmaker must have been watching some other team.  This guy not only made plays, but made them when they were most needed.  And he made them after and while getting the snot knocked out of him.  What in the hell do you call the 4th down catch against the Giants?  TJ's a tough, heady guy with good hands (early season drops notwithstanding), and a whole lot of heart, and he can run well enough to get down field a bit too.  Plus, he's a bird in the hand.  Keep him there.  Warrick is the question mark, not him.

TJ is a good POSSESION RECEIVER.

Yeah he caught some good passes and kept drives alive.

But isn`t that professional WR`s do ?

He has caught 5 TD passes in 4 seasons.

Fact is he caught 4 TD passes all season.

And 2 of those were in the 58-48 Browns game.

Hell Matt Schobel caught 4 TD passes this season with

42 LESS catches.

Well maybe they just look to someone else when they decide to throw in the endzone ( Chad Johnson?) There are more ways to help a team than just scoring a few more touchdowns than he had last year.. At least he gets upfield after catching the ball...

Good point. I was going to say that comparing the touchdowns between Houshmandzadeh and Schobel is comparing apples to oranges, especially given that the roles in the offense haven't even fully developed yet.

I try to look at the way a guy plays the game - the angles he takes, how much motion he wastes, how much under control he plays, his decisions to head up field or level a blow, how he responds to getting blasted - more than the numbers. I think that Peter Warrick's break-away ability is overrated and TJ's slightly underrated on those accounts. TJ is going to break some just by taking better angles and heading up field that Warrick isn't. On the other hand, Warrick, despite relatively slow progress, was honing himself into a more disciplined player before being claimed by injury.

Both guys are developing into solid receivers that are primarily possession receivers, but are complete enough to do more if the offense is balanced and coordinated enough. billybroome did an excellent job of talking about issues involved with developing the optimum balance, coordination and depth. I would love to see both guys here with Chad and a 4th receiver that can flat fly with good enough hands and just enough discipline that defenses always have to pay attention to him when gets deep into the route tree. That's what Patrick Johnson was supposed to be, and it appears to be what they want to do with Cliff Russell (although I don't know how fast he really is).

[schweinhart]

Just a note for TJ speculation:

Justin McCareins got a 7yr-$31 mill reported deal w/ $7 mill signing bonus from Jets last year when he was traded as a restricted free agent from Titans. His 2005 salary is $1 mill.

In 2003 the year before he got his deal, McCareins caught 47 for 813 yds w/ 7 TDs.

Imagine what TJ could get after the #s he put up in 2004

[chrishcovga]

Just a note for TJ speculation:

Justin McCareins got a 7yr-$31 mill reported deal w/ $7 mill signing bonus from Jets last year when he was traded as a restricted free agent from Titans. His 2005 salary is $1 mill.

In 2003 the year before he got his deal, McCareins caught 47 for 813 yds w/ 7 TDs.

Imagine what TJ could get after the #s he put up in 2004

The Jets are Stupid ! - I didn't know they paid 30 million for McCareins.. That's ridiculous...

He wasn't even a number 2 receiver with the Titans.. He was # 3 behind Mason and Calico..

If Someone wants to pay T.J. 30 million, I'll tell them about this nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell !