Do we really need it all?

[OICanDoThat]

Hi all. New to the board, but have been reading for a while. Even though this is a much exhausted subject, I would like to talk about the value of having Rudi next year.

Arguement A: For Rudi

He has now become an established back in the league, is a known commodity, and a very good one at that. He is a bruising runner, who fights to get to the line of scrimmageand beyond, and can wear down defenses. His personality not only fits well with what Marvin is trying to establish, he is loved by his teammates and the fans. Most importantly, he wants to retire a Bengal. He is a great back that can complement the soon to be amazing pass attack.

Arguement B: Against Rudi

This is actually the thought that spurned the whole debate for me. Next year the Bengals will have Warrick, CJ, and hopefully Housh. These make three great precise and dependable receivers, and pose a very scary threat for any opposing team's defense. Throw in KWash and a TE, and we have something sizzling, ask New England, and they didn't even have to worry about PDub. With a defense having to cover so many options, is the running back position of such great importance? Would not the passing game set up the running game, so that any back could make it (and hey, if ML and JA beleive in Chris Perry, then I do too)?

The money that Rudi has been rumored to command, and yes I do realize they are only speculative right now, have him being too much a cap liability. We can all come up with at least three better ways to spend the money (ie, 3 big holes on the Bengals right now, TE OL and DT), and his 4-6 mil could be very handy.

Besides, Rudi brings nothing unique to the table other than his personality. A bruising and strong runner is not a talent, but is gained in the weight room. Hopes are that Watson( I beleive is the name of the new guy) can provide this, and complement Perry the way CD and his speedy counterpart did against Indy.

My take.

I am a Rudi fan in the end, but I am just trying to weigh the options, and think there is more to be gained from thanking him for his help, than rewarding him, and missing out on moving forward. I am excited about the future of the offense, the pass offense in particular. Either way I can find a silver lining, but I hope ML is wise enough with the cap to make the right decision.

Who Dey! :player:

[ShulaSteakhouse]

No way I would be willing to count on Perry next season nor spend another high draft pick on a RB.

If there's one thing you know about Marvin it's that he doesn't like to play guys who haven't earned it first no matter where they are drafted, unless it's due to injury.

When you face the Steelers and Ravens four times a year you need to have a lot of offensive options.

They should be able to find a way to re-sign Rudi and TJ.

[jditty47]

wow nice post. and i definately agree. u should make a post on all the bengal free agents

[chrishcovga]

Yes, we do really need it all, and as Bengals fans, we deserve it ! We've put up with too much crap for the last 15 seasons to allow for anything else.

I'm a Rudi supporter as well, but I honestly think there's so much Talent at the running back spot both in the draft and Free Agency for Rudi to ask for the " MEGA- Millions ".

Rudi is talented and durable, and that is the reason why he should be resigned, but for a very cap friendly number closer to base pay of 3 million instead of 5 million.

* Either way, without a new center for the future ( via the draft ) it'll all be for naught.

[Kirkendall]

Hi all. New to the board, but have been reading for a while.

Welcome aboard friend.

[bengalboomer7]

Welcome to the board. I've gotten to the point where I just look at it in terms of money. There are two other backs(with better stats) that will become free agents in alexander and edge. It looks right now that edge is most likely to be let go and both will certainly get more attention than Rudi. Also, two thousand yard backs in Rueben drougns and Travis Henry are publicly seeking trades. I just don't see a lot of other takers on Rudi in FA, I think we have enough leverage to get a respectable deal because the market will not be real high(hopefully) on Rudi. I believe we can get him about about 4 mil a year, five tops. Even though that sounds like a lot of money hopefully most of it will come in incentives so at least Rudi will have to earn it on the field. If my evil genius plan comes true, Rudi is a bengal. If he starts calling for the big bucks, then let him test the market and see what happens

[Kirkendall]

Also, two thousand yard backs in Rueben drougns and Travis Henry are publicly seeking trades.

I don't know Sky, that is why I think Rudi will jump over them -- after all, who wants a guy that's hoping for a trade (even though their reasoning is justified).

But in terms of James and Alexander, I think you're right. Unless Indy tags James, which I've heard before also -- probably the owner thinking out loud with some noisey reporter in the background.

But in the end, it's absolutely all about money.

[BengalszoneBilly]

No way I would be willing to count on Perry next season nor spend another high draft pick on a RB.

If there's one thing you know about Marvin it's that he doesn't like to play guys who haven't earned it first no matter where they are drafted, unless it's due to injury.

When you face the Steelers and Ravens four times a year you need to have a lot of offensive options.

They should be able to find a way to re-sign Rudi and TJ.

I'm standing shoulder to shoulder with Mr. Steakhouse here! :player:

[CTBengalsFan]

Remember that Rudi is younger than all of those name mentioned as other RB FAs this year. There will definitely be a taker lined up for him come March 2nd if we don't sign him.

[skyline]

Also, two thousand yard backs in Rueben drougns and Travis Henry are publicly seeking trades.

I don't know Sky, that is why I think Rudi will jump over them -- after all, who wants a guy that's hoping for a trade (even though their reasoning is justified).

But in terms of James and Alexander, I think you're right. Unless Indy tags James, which I've heard before also -- probably the owner thinking out loud with some noisey reporter in the background.

But in the end, it's absolutely all about money.

You talking to me?

[jditty47]

heh i was about to ask if bengalsboomer7 = skyline. was wondering if a name change occured.

[turningpoint]

Why don't we transition tag rudi?

That could save us some money if no 1 offers him a deal, and on top ofthat we can match any deal, I mean i pretty damn sure most teams are not gonna over pay rudi to have him on there team, so I imagine we could just match the offer, and keep him.

[BengalszoneBilly]

heh i was about to ask if bengalsboomer7 = skyline. was wondering if a name change occured.

No way! The only thing these two members have in common is they're both fine Bengalszone staff writers!

[OICanDoThat]

Thanks for the kind words all. The spin for me is that Carson really came along last year. I see this offense being a pass-heavy offense that scores a lot and does it very quickly. The rushing attack would be there to complement the pass. Do we really need a 4-6 million dollar back to do that? With defenses having to worry so much about the pass to 5 possible destinations, is there anyone left to worry about the run?

If it is the hard running style of Rudi that everyone covets, that can be replaced. There are a lot of backs who make their name being big and strong and running over people. Why should we pay so much for one? I am not knocking on Rudi, in fact, I have never thought Bettis is talented either, he just was really strong, and they have similar lack of breaking speed playing styles. Perry is the back that can catch out of the backfield, that makes Carson even more dangerous. Any running he can do is bonus. As far as handing the job to someone, I am against this with anyone, especially first round picks. Make it an open competition between two or three talented and hungry young players, and the winner earns the job.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Perry is the back that can catch out of the backfield, that makes Carson even more dangerous.  Any running he can do is bonus.

I need a just a little more than two career NFL catches to be sold on this. But, from judging Perry on his collegient performace, I would expect far more from him as a runner than as a pass catcher! His stats at Michigan are quite impressive there.

BTW CanDo, welcome to the forums. :player:

[TippCityRick]

Hey guys. Been away for a while, but should be back for a bit.

Rudi would be a luxury for this offense, but only at the right price. We CAN'T overpay for him. Our D has holes on the line, we need a center for the future, and we need a tight end that can catch and block. Two of these should be filled by the draft, but one must be filled in free agency. If Rudi wants premiere back dollars or if we franchise him, then we can't do anything in free agency.

Rudi is not a premiere back. He is no threat whatsoever as a receiver out of the backfield. He is only comfortable catching the ball looking right at the qb. He never catches the ball in stride. Premiere backs do this. He doesn't. However if he's paid as a runner in the 3-4 million per range, then a deal is doable.

He would be a luxury as his ability to wear down the defense and to pass protect would keep him on the field. If Perry develops as expected then we would have quite a combo out of the backfield for the next few years. Reminds me of the late eighties with Brooks and Wood. Now wouldn't THAT be fun!!!

[TubThumper]

Thanks for the kind words all. The spin for me is that Carson really came along last year. I see this offense being a pass-heavy offense that scores a lot and does it very quickly. The rushing attack would be there to complement the pass. Do we really need a 4-6 million dollar back to do that? With defenses having to worry so much about the pass to 5 possible destinations, is there anyone left to worry about the run?

If it is the hard running style of Rudi that everyone covets, that can be replaced. There are a lot of backs who make their name being big and strong and running over people. Why should we pay so much for one? I am not knocking on Rudi, in fact, I have never thought Bettis is talented either, he just was really strong, and they have similar lack of breaking speed playing styles. Perry is the back that can catch out of the backfield, that makes Carson even more dangerous. Any running he can do is bonus. As far as handing the job to someone, I am against this with anyone, especially first round picks. Make it an open competition between two or three talented and hungry young players, and the winner earns the job.

I agree, except I think that Bettis is talented in that he has very quick feet for his size. He gets extra yards by maneuvering into seams before he puts the pads down on people.

[richmond_mat]

But, from judging Perry on his collegient performace, I would expect far more from him as a runner than as a pass catcher! His stats at Michigan are quite impressive there.

So were Ki-Jana's at Penn State.

Have the Bengals ever had a successful first round running back? Really. Have they?

[BengalsFan77]

i think u guys r going to b pleasantly surprised when u watch perry play next year. as an OSU fan i watched perry kill us constantly. he has great instincts. he also has more moves than most nfl backs (including rudi). the only question i have with him is is he gonna b healthy? i say we transition rudi like already stated. that way we have the opportunity to match but we dont have to overpay. but we DO need a good back. a passing game only gets u so far. u need someone who can keep the chains moving in the 4th, while running down the clock. while passing the ball is great, it doesnt take up as much time, especially if we go deep.

[jjakq27]

But, from judging Perry on his collegient performace, I would expect far more from him as a runner than as a pass catcher! His stats at Michigan are quite impressive there.

So were Ki-Jana's at Penn State.

Have the Bengals ever had a successful first round running back? Really. Have they?

1b. Archie Griffin 1976

1b. Charles Alexander 1979

1. Ki-Jana Carter 1995 (first overall)

1. Chris Perry 2004

Top Runners

Dillon-2nd round 1997

James Brooks-trade with SD in 1984

Pete Johnson-2nd 1977

Harold Green-2nd 1990

Essex Johnson-6e 1968

Archie Griffin-1b 1976

Charles Alexander-1b 1979

Larry Kinnebrew-6b 1983

Paul Robinson-3b 1968

[richmond_mat]

But, from judging Perry on his collegient performace, I would expect far more from him as a runner than as a pass catcher! His stats at Michigan are quite impressive there.

So were Ki-Jana's at Penn State.

Have the Bengals ever had a successful first round running back? Really. Have they?

1b. Archie Griffin 1976

1b. Charles Alexander 1979

1. Ki-Jana Carter 1995 (first overall)

1. Chris Perry 2004

Top Runners

Dillon-2nd round 1997

James Brooks-trade with SD in 1984

Pete Johnson-2nd 1977

Harold Green-2nd 1990

Essex Johnson-6e 1968

Archie Griffin-1b 1976

Charles Alexander-1b 1979

Larry Kinnebrew-6b 1983

Paul Robinson-3b 1968

Great info there JJ.

So they really haven't had great success drafting a RB in round one.

Archie Griffen, although a decent back, never quite lived up to the 2 Heisman hype. I'd have to say the same for Alexander, minus the Heisman. Upon further review I'd have to say COMPLETE BUST.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AlexCh00.htm

[ackley1]

i think u guys r going to b pleasantly surprised when u watch perry play next year. as an OSU fan i watched perry kill us constantly. he has great instincts. he also has more moves than most nfl backs (including rudi). the only question i have with him is is he gonna b healthy? i say we transition rudi like already stated. that way we have the opportunity to match but we dont have to overpay. but we DO need a good back. a passing game only gets u so far. u need someone who can keep the chains moving in the 4th, while running down the clock. while passing the ball is great, it doesnt take up as much time, especially if we go deep.

As a Michigan fan I can only rember one really good season he had w/ us. I'm just not sure about him yet. Hopefully he proves me and blows it up next year.