email i sent to geoff hobson

[jditty47]

In your most recent article you state rudi is, and i quote, "one of the most popular Bengals in recent memory." You have got to be kidding me. If you are hearing what the fans think, about half of them hope that he won't return, either for A) he gonna cost too much, or he can't make people miss, and doesn't break enough big runs. Bye Bye Rudi. We have Perry and Watson still who will be able to make the offense even more potent with their triple threat abilities, which RJ does not possess. Rudi had 5 games where he had more than 4 ypc. FIVE OUT OF SIXTEEN! Don't let the door hit u Rudi.

[oldschooler]

In your most recent article you state rudi is, and i quote, "one of the most popular Bengals in recent memory."  You have got to be kidding me.  If you are hearing what the fans think, about half of them hope that he won't return, either for A) he gonna cost too much, or he can't make people miss, and doesn't break enough big runs.  Bye Bye Rudi.  We have Perry and Watson still who will be able to make the offense even more potent with their triple threat abilities, which RJ does not possess.  Rudi had 5 games where he had more than 4 ypc.  FIVE OUT OF SIXTEEN!  Don't let the door hit u Rudi.

I don`t think you, your hand and a tube of KY jelly

count as "half the fans".

[jditty47]

dude, even on here its split in half. u know it, and i know it.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Oh here we go again with Ditty's Rudi bashing.

He averaged 4.0 YPC for the SEASON despite being 2nd in rushing attempts.

Curtis Martin averaged 4.6 and had the most carries, yeah that .6 of a yard will cost you so many games. Martin is the best RB in the league behind a very highly regarded 0-line.

That tells me, Rudi either played a lot of tough defenses or his o-line is inconsistent at best, or both, since he finished 6th in rushing yards.

Yet Chris Perry is better than Rudi and will do better than Rudi did this year despite all of Rudi's obstacles???

I am telling you if you give Rudi some better blocking more consistently and take some heat off of him with Perry like Dillon did in '03, he will lead the league in rushing and be a pro bowler.

If the Bengals use him correctly and just give him a hint of daylight he will break long runs much more often - even though he doesn't need to because he consistently gets positive yards when he isn't getting slammed in the backfield.

Remember Dillon led the league for a while in negative yard plays. Why is Rudi held to a different standard behind what is apparently an even poorer o-line up the middle?

His 52 yard long run this year was up there with the longest ones any RB had. And Rudi had plenty of them in '03. I refuse to believe a young guy like that will get worse under Jim Anderson.

Rudi NEEDS to be re-signed as does TJ, period. I am sure there's a way to get them on the roster - they are not nearly as expensive as the trio in Indy even with Palmer, nor more so than Lewis & Lewis & McAlister et al.., are in Baltimore. They will do just fine. The Eagles have tons of cap room and have McNabb, Owens and Kearse, among others, on their roster.

I am tired of the Mike Brownesque attitude in this town that they have to keep cutting salary to make room for draft picks and rely on unproven players. As if the "poor, poor Bengals" can't afford too many good players - that wouldn't be BUNGAL enough for everyone!

Bring back Rudi (they will so get used to him) and turn the attention elsewhere for once.

[bengalboomer7]

If you've read what's been going on lately it doesn't matter. I guess talke are getting started up and Mikey has pretty much said they'll franchise him if they have to. Whether anyone likes it or not (i do) Rudi is probably a bengal for awhile

[EdwardG]

I'm so cool, Geoff Hobson emails me.

[bengalboomer7]

In other news I was reading Marvins Q&A on enquirer.com and he says the oline is pretty much set

[jamesbrooks21]

In your most recent article you state rudi is, and i quote, "one of the most popular Bengals in recent memory." You have got to be kidding me. If you are hearing what the fans think, about half of them hope that he won't return, either for A) he gonna cost too much, or he can't make people miss, and doesn't break enough big runs. Bye Bye Rudi. We have Perry and Watson still who will be able to make the offense even more potent with their triple threat abilities, which RJ does not possess. Rudi had 5 games where he had more than 4 ypc. FIVE OUT OF SIXTEEN! Don't let the door hit u Rudi.

Kinda harsh isn't it??? I mean he loves being here and he is solid. I don't want to overpay for him, but I don't know if I'd say all that.

[jditty47]

take out the cleveland game and tell me what his yac is. if u think it was all the olines fault then u obviously werent watching any of the games this season.

[jamesbrooks21]

take out the cleveland game and tell me what his yac is. if u think it was all the olines fault then u obviously werent watching any of the games this season.

then take out the ny giants game too then while your at it.

[jditty47]

take out his worst and his best and it drops.

[San Antonio Bengal]

Here's an idea. Let's throw out Rudi along with some of our other under-achievers like Chad Johnson. Rudi was 6th in the league in rushing yards and Chad finished 6th in the league in recieving yards! 6TH!! Chad is just as bad as Rudi!! I don't know how the Bengals organization puts up with such terrible performances week after week. I mean, there were some weeks when Chad didn't have 100 yards! C'mon... how hard is it to get 100 yards?! Chad is obviously not trying to perform each week. We should trade him and his fat contract to someone for some 7th round draft picks. It wouldn't be hard to pick up a wide reciever from Central Florida with a 7th round pick and have him produce similar numbers. Makes perfect sense to me.</sarcasm>

[CTBengalsFan]

keep rudi for continuity and chemistry purposes.

him + perry could be very effective.

[chrishcovga]

This is about as off base of a topic I've seen on this board. A lot of good backs don't have great ypc stats, but they get the job done. Rudi will be 25 in'05 after the season starts. He's ran for over 2400 yards in a very short time. 90 yards a game from one back is pretty damn consistent, and oh by the way, he's a very durable running back !!

- You want Rudi's 4.5 back from '03, improve the Center and Right Guard positions plain and simple. Rich Braham is about as solid as they come, but he's 34, and it's time to replace him ! Bobbie Williams basically played like Mike Goff, inconsistent. Whomever we bring in during the offseason will challenge those two spots instantly.

-- You want a real stat to judge Rudi by, how about his yards after contact...?? The guy is like a pinball most games and you know it ! :player:

[HoosierCat]

In other news I was reading Marvins Q&A on enquirer.com and he says the oline is pretty much set

No he didn't -- he said (much to my relief!) that it was an area they needed to upgrade:

Guest (Jan 4, 2005 12:35:18 PM)

Coach, congratulations on a good season. What areas will be addressed via the draft and what areas through free agency?

Marvin Lewis (Jan 4, 2005 12:35:19 PM)

We will try and upgrade our players at wide receiver, offensive line, tight end, running back, defensive pass rusher, linebacker, safety, kick returner and see how it fits together.

Granted, that's about every position short of corner, kicker, and punter, but it's about the only o-line mention he made. Good chat, tho. I especially like his answer to how many times we'd see him in Detroit next year: Two. :player:

[HoosierCat]

If you've read what's been going on lately it doesn't matter. I guess talke are getting started up and Mikey has pretty much said they'll franchise him if they have to. Whether anyone likes it or not (i do) Rudi is probably a bengal for awhile

Yup. My bet is that they talk but fail to reach a long-term deal, Rudi is tagged, gets no takers in March, and signs the franchise tender. Then we get a replay of 2004, or at least 2004 as it was originally planned, with Rudi as the No. 1 and Perry as No. 2/No. 1-in-waiting.

[oldschooler]

Thirteen of their games were against top 15 defenses.

They played 10 games against top 10 defenses.

And they had basically a ROOKIE at QB. They had

a few games where they lost their center and they had a

banged up line at the beginning of the year. PLUS their

BEST O-lineman (BIG Willie) was playing injured for over

half of the season and despite ALL OF THAT ...Rudi Johnson

finished 6th overall in rushing, broke 2 franchise records for

carries and yards and was 1 yard away from breaking

ANOTHER record of most 100 yard games in a season. BUT instead

of breaking it he TIED IT...averaged 4 yards a carry and had 12 TD`s.

(more TD`s in a season than Dillon EVER had for the Bengals....

He had 10 twice)

Sarcasm on ^

Yeah he sucks. You should write Hobson about Chad Johnson too.

I mean his average yards per catch dropped over a yard and

a half from last year and he had 1 less TD and his longest pass

play dropped from 82 yards in 2003 to 53 in 2004 ....God he is awful too !!!

Sarcasm off ^ switch broke

By the way in 2001 Corey Dillon averaged 3.9 yards a carrry

and only had 10 TD`s ....were you writing Hobson letters then ?

[oldschooler]

And just to add a little more about Dillon.

Were people saying he wasn`t any good or

not worth the money AFTER he signed that 5 year, $32 million dollar contract in MAY of 2001 ?

AFTER he signed that contract his average yards per carry were

2001: 3.9 (10 TD`s)

2002: 4.2 (7 TD`s)

2003: 3.9 (2 TD`s)

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1681

Were you writing Hobson letters then too ?

[HoosierCat]

despite ALL OF THAT ...Rudi Johnson

finished 6th overall in rushing, broke 2 franchise records for

carries and yards and was 1 yard away from breaking

ANOTHER record of most 100 yard games in a season. BUT instead

of breaking it he TIED IT...averaged 4 yards a carry and had 12 TD`s.

(more TD`s in a season than Dillon EVER had for the Bengals....

He had 10 twice)

All very true, and Rudi has gotten many well-deserved props for his performance in 2004. Against that, however, you have to also set the fact that football is a team, not an individual, sport, and as a team Cincy's rushing attack was decidedly average. The Bengals ranked 17th in total rushing yards. So at least 11 teams managed to get more yards on the ground without having an individual who rushed for as many yards as Rudi.

That's not a blank check to cut Rudi...but it also suggests we shouldn't cut Rudi a blank check!

[oldschooler]

despite ALL OF THAT ...Rudi Johnson

finished 6th overall in rushing, broke 2 franchise records for

carries and yards and was 1 yard away from breaking

ANOTHER record of most 100 yard games in a season. BUT instead

of breaking it he TIED IT...averaged 4 yards a carry and had 12 TD`s.

(more TD`s in a season than Dillon EVER had for the Bengals....

He had 10 twice)

All very true, and Rudi has gotten many well-deserved props for his performance in 2004. Against that, however, you have to also set the fact that football is a team, not an individual, sport, and as a team Cincy's rushing attack was decidedly average. The Bengals ranked 17th in total rushing yards. So at least 11 teams managed to get more yards on the ground without having an individual who rushed for as many yards as Rudi.

That's not a blank check to cut Rudi...but it also suggests we shouldn't cut Rudi a blank check!

All that tells me is how durable Rudi is.

Who did he have to back him up ?

Kenny Watson...who had 26 carries !

Our QB`s (Palmer and Kitna) had 28 carries !

The Bengals as a team had 438 rushes.

Rudi had 361 of those carries !!!

Our RB`s (besides Rudi) had 30 carries TOTAL !!!!

Hell Peter Warrick had the same amount of carries

as our 1st round draft pick (2) but had 13 more yards !!!!!!

The 8 wins we had Rudi averaged 24.3 carries a game

and had 8 TD`s. The 8 losses we had he averaged 20.75

carries a game and had 4 TD`s.

The Bengals had 1839 total rushing yards.

Rudi had 1454 of that. They had 14 rushing TD`s.

Rudi had 12 of those.

IF Rudi would have gotten injured the Bengals season

would have died with the loss of him. The fact that they

had no other rushing threat than him isn`t his fault at all.

[TubThumper]

despite ALL OF THAT ...Rudi Johnson

finished 6th overall in rushing, broke 2 franchise records for

carries and yards and was 1 yard away from breaking

ANOTHER record of most 100 yard games in a season. BUT instead

of breaking it he TIED IT...averaged 4 yards a carry and had 12 TD`s.

(more TD`s in a season than Dillon EVER had for the Bengals....

He had 10 twice)

All very true, and Rudi has gotten many well-deserved props for his performance in 2004. Against that, however, you have to also set the fact that football is a team, not an individual, sport, and as a team Cincy's rushing attack was decidedly average. The Bengals ranked 17th in total rushing yards. So at least 11 teams managed to get more yards on the ground without having an individual who rushed for as many yards as Rudi.

That's not a blank check to cut Rudi...but it also suggests we shouldn't cut Rudi a blank check!

I agree. I think that you're right in projecting that they'll end up franchising Rudi. Continuity, box-office, and his basic production warrant keeping him at the $5.3 million (or whatever) Franchise Player price. Neither his production nor the impact of a marquee runner on a team's on-field bottom line are spectacular enough to warrant paying him much more than that when there are still other needs to address.

Rudi's not in the position to forsake free-agency if there's really a likelihood that he can get substantially more on the open market, but I don't think the Bengals should pay more. So I would keep my offer in the Franchise ballpark, sweeten it within reason as necessary, and work on rationally knocking down arguments regarding his best alternative to a negotiated agreement. If that doesn't work and the fact or perception of the big money persists, lock him in for the year and deal with it later.

[Kirkendall]

This is insane. Has anyone mentioned the offensive line? For all the negativity with the line, yet the praise like Rudi is a certain hall of famer, there's a lack of consistency right now. The offensive line is what made Rudi, they wanted to block for him and they did very GOOD -- look at the data Oldschooler provides, free of charge.

If Rudi is going to be praised this much, then the o-line deserves as much credit -- or blame.

[HoosierCat]

[iF Rudi would have gotten injured the Bengals season

would have died with the loss of him. The fact that they

had no other rushing threat than him isn`t his fault at all.

I never said it was. But you miss my point, which is that Rudi may represent a classic case of Marvin Lewis' "addition by subtraction." What would be preferable, paying Rudi $5-6 million and having a rushing offense that gets 1,800 yards, or paying, for example, Lamont Jordan $2-3 million and having him, Perry and everyone else rush for 1,800 yards -- and have $3 million more to spend on other needs? Many other teams in this league rushed for more yards than the Bengals without paying franchise dollars to a running back. The bottom line is that resigning Rudi isn't the slam-dunk his individual numbers would make it seem.

That said, the Bengals appear to have decided to stick with the bird in the hand, so to speak, and TubThumper's approach is exactly the one they should take in this case: "So I would keep my offer in the Franchise ballpark, sweeten it within reason as necessary, and work on rationally knocking down arguments regarding his best alternative to a negotiated agreement. If that doesn't work and the fact or perception of the big money persists, lock him in for the year and deal with it later."

As to the o-line, yeah, kirk, you know I agree with you that that should be the real priority here.

[oldschooler]

This is insane.  Has anyone mentioned the offensive line?  For all the negativity with the line, yet the praise like Rudi is a certain hall of famer, there's a lack of consistency right now.  The offensive line is what made Rudi, they wanted to block for him and they did very GOOD -- look at the data Oldschooler provides, free of charge. 

If Rudi is going to be praised this much, then the o-line deserves as much credit -- or blame.

Yeah the O-line deserves credit but they were also banged up.

If they had opened holes more consistently then MAYBE Rudi

would have 2000 yards ?

[iF Rudi would have gotten injured the Bengals season

would have died with the loss of him. The fact that they

had no other rushing threat than him isn`t his fault at all.

I never said it was. But you miss my point, which is that Rudi may represent a classic case of Marvin Lewis' "addition by subtraction." What would be preferable, paying Rudi $5-6 million and having a rushing offense that gets 1,800 yards, or paying, for example, Lamont Jordan $2-3 million and having him, Perry and everyone else rush for 1,800 yards -- and have $3 million more to spend on other needs? Many other teams in this league rushed for more yards than the Bengals without paying franchise dollars to a running back. The bottom line is that resigning Rudi isn't the slam-dunk his individual numbers would make it seem.

No Rudi isn`t the "slam dunk" RB. But his numbers say he takes the

ball NO MATTER how much it is handed to him and doesn`t complain.

He is durable as they come. He is a plow horse.

Last year the Bengals RB`s the ball 465 times. Only 215 of those

carries were Rudi`s. This year the Bengals RB`s ran the ball 392 times

and Rudi had 361 of those carries !!!!

The point I was trying to make is that the ONLY running threat

the Bengals had this year was Rudi. So to say other teams ran

for more yards than the Bengals is bogus. IF Perry had gotten more

than 2 yards, and Jerimi Johnson had gotten more than 5 ?.....

The fact of the matter is that last year the Bengals rushed for

1987 yards as a team. The top 3 rushers were RB`s and we had

a WR that had over 100 yards rushing for the season. (Warrick)

And a QB (Kitna) that ran for over 100 yards.

This season the Bengals top 3 rushers were 2 RB`s and 1 WR.

Kenny Watson is the only person on the list that has over 100 yards

besides Rudi this season.

You have to go down to number 10 on the list to find another RB.

Hell Kyle Larson had more yards than our our 3rd RB on the rushing list !

IF THE OTHERS WOULD HAVE PRODUCED THEN THE BENGALS WOULD

HAVE BEEN HIGHER THAN 17th IN THE NFL IN RUSHING !

That was my point. All you did to me was point out how durable and

how big a part of the offense Rudi HAD to be this year !!!!!

[HoosierCat]

So to say other teams ran

for more yards than the Bengals is bogus. IF Perry had gotten more

than 2 yards, and Jerimi Johnson had gotten more than 5

No, to say other teams (16 of them to be precise) ran for more yards than the Bengals is a fact.

And if Jeremi and Perry would have had more runs, Rudi and Watson would have had correspondingly fewer. So the only way total yardage would have gone up significantly is if one of them had broken out, which would only lessen the argument for keeping Rudi. The simple fact is that you do not need a "plow horse" to have a top rushing offense. If fact, as this years' Bengals numbers show, you can have that guy and still not be in the top half of the league rushing!

As for Rudi's durability, yes, he had an injury-free year. On the other hand, I seem to recall him being unable to answer the bell for several games because of a thigh bruise early in 2003. I'm not saying he has a "history of injury" but he isn't invulnerable.