Defensive Tackles

[JPW]

A few names that I like at the position.

Shaun Rogers UFA

It will take a Ton of $$$ to sign this guy.

Rodrique Wright

Will most likely be off the board before we even get our first pick.

Anttaj Hawthorne

Some scouts are Real High on him, looks like he will go late 1st or early 2nd round.

We would probably have to use our 1st round pick to get him.

Haloti Ngata

Looks like a real good bet and most likely will still be there when we pick in the 2nd round.

Gabe Watson would be right here with Ngata but he has said that he is staying in school.

Albert Means & Anthony Bryant

Both of these guys were top recruits coming out of HS but have not played up to expeditions.

Either could end up being a value later round pick.

As you may have noticed, every guy that I listed is more or less a Fat-A$$ type.

Personally I feel that a True Run-Snuffing DT is our greatest Need on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't think that we need any more 290 lb DTs.

[Kirkendall]

Who is the fatest guy?

[chrishcovga]

Rodrique Wright would be the fastest. According to his measurements from Texas U.

He runs a 4.8... which means he'll probably run closer to 5.0 still pretty quick for a man that size..

But I'm campaigning this year. The Guy I want that'll add pass Rush and run stopping ability is Marcus Spears DE, LSU.

He's 6'4 (1/2) 295 lbs. and runs a 4.85 - recruited to play Tight End, but his athleticism is through the roof. He could be our version of a Julius Peppers. Great Size and strength especially lower body instantly upgrades entire defense.

[HoosierCat]

That was "fatest," not fastest, chrish .

I think Bryant would be the guy, he's like 340.

[chrishcovga]

That was "fatest," not fastest, chrish .

I think Bryant would be the guy, he's like 340.

Look Joisey Just because I have 4 eyes doesn't mean I catch everything !!

* It's draft talk though, You know I'm already in my " Best Available " at a need position mindset !

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

But I'm campaigning this year. The Guy I want that'll add pass Rush and run stopping ability is Marcus Spears DE, LSU.

He's 6'4 (1/2) 295 lbs. and runs a 4.85 - recruited to play Tight End, but his athleticism is through the roof. He could be our version of a Julius Peppers. Great Size and strength especially lower body instantly upgrades entire defense.

I agree Chris. This guy fits the bill. He has a way to go before he's in Peppers class but he would be my choice. Even if he's not the fatest.

[schweinhart]

That was "fatest," not fastest, chrish .

I think Bryant would be the guy, he's like 340.

Bryant is indeed large. His 325-pound listing seems low.

With Shaun Smith and Askew probably roster spot locks and Terrance Martin vying for a spot, I'm doubting a big heavy is going to be drafted by Bengals.

If a D-linemen is in the fold draftwise for 1st rd, Marcus Spears does seem to be the most logical choice in part because he would immediately assume Carl Powell's role as DE/DT. The degree of Clemons injury combined w/ his age would also seem to factor heavily.

Spears looks like the best choice to fill the dual DE/DT need unless ML re-signs his buddy.

[schweinhart]

But I'm campaigning this year. The Guy I want that'll add pass Rush and run stopping ability is Marcus Spears DE, LSU.

He's 6'4 (1/2) 295 lbs. and runs a 4.85 - recruited to play Tight End, but his athleticism is through the roof. He could be our version of a Julius Peppers. Great Size and strength especially lower body instantly upgrades entire defense.

While I agree that Spears would be a nice DE/DT fit for the Bengals, I would be remiss not address his downside, which was made evident vs. Iowa today

True, Spears has great feet and gets himself in position athletically but his speed on backside pursuit of run and movement off contain at DE is not the gear of Justin Smith (due in part to Spears' house-sized backside). This probably makes Spears better suited for DT in a 3-4 than DE in 4-3, where he would've added to his value if he could drop in coverage better on blitz schemes. He can drop back and get into position but is pressed to stay with receivers beyond 5 yds or make tackle after catch.

However, Spears is strong enough to chore 4-3 DT and agile enough to stunt from the interior. This still requires him to transition, which adds guesswork as to how he'll perform.

Regardless, I like Spears strength vs. run and balanced feet. He keeps his feet when cut and moves the blocker rather than the blocker moving him.

It was announced that he had a bicep strain or tear from outset of game vs. Iowa and that bodes well for his desire to play the game.

[JPW]

Well the Lions re-signed Rogers.

Six Years $46 million with a $15 million signing bonus.

[chrishcovga]

But I'm campaigning this year.  The Guy I want that'll add pass Rush and run stopping ability is Marcus Spears DE, LSU.

He's 6'4 (1/2) 295 lbs. and runs a 4.85  - recruited to play Tight End, but his athleticism is through the roof. He could be our version of a Julius Peppers. Great Size and strength especially lower body instantly upgrades entire defense.

While I agree that Spears would be a nice DE/DT fit for the Bengals, I would be remiss not address his downside, which was made evident vs. Iowa today

True, Spears has great feet and gets himself in position athletically but his speed on backside pursuit of run and movement off contain at DE is not the gear of Justin Smith (due in part to Spears' house-sized backside). This probably makes Spears better suited for DT in a 3-4 than DE in 4-3, where he would've added to his value if he could drop in coverage better on blitz schemes. He can drop back and get into position but is pressed to stay with receivers beyond 5 yds or make tackle after catch.

However, Spears is strong enough to chore 4-3 DT and agile enough to stunt from the interior. This still requires him to transition, which adds guesswork as to how he'll perform.

Regardless, I like Spears strength vs. run and balanced feet. He keeps his feet when cut and moves the blocker rather than the blocker moving him.

It was announced that he had a bicep strain or tear from outset of game vs. Iowa and that bodes well for his desire to play the game.

I think you mean DE in a 3-4 and a DT in a 4-3..? * one thing to point out about LSU and Iowa game yesterday, Iowa ran away from Spears side about 98 % of the time, before he left injured.

But the injury does add some concern with so little time for him to heal before Combine Workouts and private workouts begin in a month from now !

Could work out to our advantage though. If he has a tear, he's all but removed as a player to be counted on for any team, for the '05 season. If he's still available, come 5th round, I say draft him, sign him, put him on IR and we'll have a very hungry and healthy player come '06.

* Travis Johnson and Rodrique Wright still become the top spots since Spears' injury rules him out. Wright didn't have an impressive stats game against the Iowa Hawkeyes, but he does do a lot at helping his LB's support. He slides well, and was never pushed downfield , ala Tony Williams, and at times John Thornton.

Repeating from another post ( Antajj Hawthorne is a slob ! ) He didn't look athletic at all, as a matter of fact Gerald Anderson DT, Georgia had a share of moments that make him worth considering as a late 3rd or 4th round selection. Lack of production and playing time will ultimately hurt his draft status though.

[schweinhart]

Yeah I always call DTs what 3-4 "DEs" are because if you look at them outside of 3-4 they are usually 4-3 DT size and LBs play DE in 3-4. The "DT" in a 3-4 is the nose tackle to me.

You're right about Iowa running away from Spears. IMO that is Spears greatest strength -- playing the run, especially in a 3-4 where he could have greater space to use his tremendous athletic abilities in about a 10 yd range.

I'm not saying that Spears won't be a 1st rounder or wouldn't be an immediate impact player for the Bengals if he were drafted. If he played with a tear, then...damn....all the more reason to take a long look at him. The willingness to play hurt might motivate others who miss games from sprains.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Personally I feel that a True Run-Snuffing DT is our greatest Need on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't think that we need any more 290 lb DTs.

I for one couldn't agree with you more!

[JPW]

Personally I feel that a True Run-Snuffing DT is our greatest Need on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't think that we need any more 290 lb DTs.

I for one couldn't agree with you more!

Repeating from another post ( Antajj Hawthorne is a slob ! )

He didn't look athletic at all, as a matter of fact Gerald Anderson DT, Georgia had a share of moments that make him worth considering as a late 3rd or 4th round selection.

Hawthorne may be a slob but at least he doesn't get Pushed Backwards.

I re-watched his game last night.

Hawthorne was double-teamed a Lot and triple-teamed at least a few times.

Still he didn't get pushed backwards...

He did get pushed down, pulled down, blocked out of the play, was Held Often, flat out Tackled at least once and pushed Past the Play a number of times.

No he didn't look very athletic...

But most Big DTs aren't very athletic.

If all you want is somebody who is athletic we could always just bring Glenn Steel back.

Hawthorne did show that he has a couple of nice Moves, but he only used them once or twice in the whole game.

Over all he Looked Tired and Lethargic...

He did manage to hold his ground and clog up his space on the line.

He did get a lot of penetration on passing plays and even managed one sack.

He did get his Fat-A$$ in gear on one play, in pursuit of a run all the way to the side-line.

But he Sure wasn't an Impact Player in the game...

It was all too easy to get around him on the line and way too easy to get him to over-shoot the Play when he had penetration in the back-field.

It is a long way to the Draft but at this point there is no way I would want to use the 1st Round Pick on him.

On the other hand, I have a hard time seeing guys like Spears or Johnson as being the answer to our DL problem.

I know that Spears was injured and all but he did next to nothing in his bowl game.

I know that Spears is Good against the run as a DE but you hurt the pass-rush if you play him there.

We could make the same trade-off by moving one of the DTs we already have to the outside.

And if you move him inside what you end up with is yet another rather light-weight DT, who tend to get Pushed around by the huge OLineman in the NFL.

The best Fit for Spears in the NFL is probably as a DE in a 3-4 defense.

Don't get me wrong Johnson is one Tough son of a gun.

And Spears has been Outstanding at LSU...

They are both Very Good Players.

I am just worried that they both may end up as the "one-gap pass rusher" type of DT in the NFL who don't really stack up all that well against the Run.

While I am at it I might as well go ahead and mention Shaun Cody of USC.

I don't think that anyone has brought his name up yet but he is another guy who is very Spears-Like.

About the same size & speed & very athletic and he has played both inside and at end. (6'4" 295Lbs 4.74 40-yard dash)

Shaun Cody (link)

I am sure that we all will be watching him very closely tonight.

But I am not really sold on the whole DT/DE tweener thing.

I know that we have had Carl Powell who plays both and BTW excels at neither.

But I am not sure that came about by design....

I think that it was more likely just a matter of matching a particular players skills to the team, I am not sure that it constitutes an on going role on the team.

To my way of thinking if you want a DE you Get a End and if you want a DT you Get a Tackle.

If we are looking for a DE, I would want someone like David Pollack.

It would certainly be Exciting to have Pollack Pass-Rushing from one end and Robert Geathers coming from the other side.

But then what would we do with Justin Smith ?

If we are looking for a three-down DE, who can play both the run and the pass, we can probably get one in the later rounds.

Like the guy who looks like he may be a Duane Clemons clone, Jovan Haye. (6'3" 280Lbs 4.78 40-yard dash)

Jovan Haye (link)

After watching the Bowl Games I am rather disappointed with the DTs that will be in this year's Draft.

I don't know if any of them are worth a first round pick.

With Shaun Smith and Askew probably roster spot locks and Terrance Martin vying for a spot, I'm doubting a big heavy is going to be drafted by Bengals.

You might be right about this.

It could be that we already got our 1st round DT in last years draft.

It is possible that if Askew would have stayed in school he might have been the top DT coming out in this years draft.

I just wish that we could have gotten a better look at him this year.

And if the plan is to have Smith and maybe Martin battle for a spot, our Fat-A$$ quota may well be full already.

And as Chrishcovga Correctly pointed out, there are other BIG DTs that we could get in a later round to add to the competition.

I am not down on Spears or Johnson...

And won't be disappointed if one of them ends up as our 1st round pick.

They are both Very Good Players and I am sure that if ML picks one of them that he will know how to fit them into the team for Max effectiveness.

All I am saying is that I am tired of seeing our DTs being Pushed Backwards off of the LoS on running plays.

And that I am not convinced that either one of these guys is really big enough to not be pushed around playing inside.

We Need to get a Sure Fire Impact Player with our First Round Pick this Year.

Right now I am not at all sure that DL is the way we should go with that 1st pick.

[chrishcovga]

Damn JP, I thought I was going to have to turn a page or something...

I think one of the biggest things people see when they grade out a guy like Marcus Spears is his tremendous Wing Span. It's not so much his athleticism that makes him such a good all around player, but it's his abilty to shed blockers and stay strong at the point of attack.

* He's sort of like the Defensive version of a top Left Tackle. You always hear the cliche " once he gets his hands on you it's all over ! " And that's what I see in Spears. His abilty to direct and redirect offensive lineman.

I think that when you put Spears and Cody next to each other, you have one guy (Spears) that could be lined up anywhere on the defensive front. But when you look at (Cody) you start trying to find a spot that best suites his abilities. Cody is the true "tweener" between the two. Cody will probably fit better as a 3-4 End than he ever would as a DT. But Spears because of his build, could be like a young Reggie White having the strength to play at a top level inside with quickness. And the Size and decent enough speed to force a team to " gameplan " against him as a Defensive end.

* Travis Johnson - plays at a very high level. Has a mean streak. Stays low, and is very disruptive. Not sure if he's a pro-bowler. But he will make an impact that's for sure.

* Rodrique Wright - Kind of an inconsistent year for him. Athletically, he's as good as they come with the perfect blend of size and quickness. Either way , if you draft him , he makes your linebackers better.

* Anttaj Hawthorne - Looks like a guy that's fighting his weight 'ala' Dwan Edwards ( Baltimore Ravens - Oregon St.'04 draft ) was last year. The size is something to like, and he's usually strong at the point of attack, but he's not worth a high pick especially since he can only play 2 downs !

* Haloti Ngata - I've heard a lot of good things about him, but havent' had the chance to see him in action. He's extremely raw, has a repaired Knee, but ScoutsInc. loves him.

[JPW]

Damn JP, I thought I was going to have to turn a page or something...

Yea I did get a bit carried away there....

Sorry about that.