Halati Ngata

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

With the way the Bengals have had success with Oregon players, I wonder if this guy will be high on Marvin's board.

A 6'5" 345 lb. defensive tackle with a unique name.

The only other option I see is Travis Johnson, we might be drafted for his name as well as his ability!

[JPW]

With the way the Bengals have had success with Oregon players, I wonder if this guy will be high on Marvin's board.

A 6'5" 345 lb. defensive tackle with a unique name.

The only other option I see is Travis Johnson, we might be drafted for his name as well as his ability!

As I mentioned in the (Who do you want thread), Ngata is Very High on My board.

But I hardly see Johnson as the Only other option at DT.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

By "only other option" I mean most likely options we will be able to guess at! That Coach Lewis is a wiley one!

[chrishcovga]

Got to watch Albert Means the other day. Seemed pretty quick , but also looks like he's fighting his weight. Doesn't look to have a quick step, and plays more with girth than technique and athleticism.

Ronald Fields from Mississippi state is another big'un . Should be as quick and strong as Ngata, but plays on such a bad Mississippi State team hardly gets any recognition. However , Anyone watch that MS vs. Florida upset earlier this year, saw Fields put on a show against Florida's interior lineman.

[schweinhart]

Got to watch Albert Means the other day. Seemed pretty quick , but also looks like he's fighting his weight. Doesn't look to have a quick step, and plays more with girth than technique and athleticism.

Ronald Fields from Mississippi state is another big'un . Should be as quick and strong as Ngata, but plays on such a bad Mississippi State team hardly gets any recognition. However , Anyone watch that MS vs. Florida upset earlier this year, saw Fields put on a show against Florida's interior lineman.

Means might get drafted but after watching him in 3 games this year I sure hope it ain't by the Bengals. This guy can't fight off a block and looks like he wants to stay off the line to wave his arms at passes whenever he can. They put him outside a couple times vs. Bowling Green and he actually did penetrate but virtually every time he was lined up straight against the center Mruczkowski, Means did nothing.

I saw Fields early in the year but not Fla. He showed good lateral movement with some push straight ahead. He's seemed much, much better than DTs like Larry Burt and Lorenzo Alexander and a better scheme fit for Bengals.

But outside of Travis Johnson and maybe Hawthorne, I'm not seeing any 1st rd DTs who are definitely going into draft.

[chrishcovga]

Got to watch Albert Means the other day. Seemed pretty quick , but also looks like he's fighting his weight. Doesn't look to have a quick step, and plays more with girth than technique and athleticism.

Ronald Fields from Mississippi state is another big'un . Should be as quick and strong as Ngata, but plays on such a bad Mississippi State team hardly gets any recognition. However , Anyone watch that MS vs. Florida upset earlier this year, saw Fields put on a show against Florida's interior lineman.

Means might get drafted but after watching him in 3 games this year I sure hope it ain't by the Bengals. This guy can't fight off a block and looks like he wants to stay off the line to wave his arms at passes whenever he can. They put him outside a couple times vs. Bowling Green and he actually did penetrate but virtually every time he was lined up straight against the center Mruczkowski, Means did nothing.

I saw Fields early in the year but not Fla. He showed good lateral movement with some push straight ahead. He's seemed much, much better than DTs like Larry Burt and Lorenzo Alexander and a better scheme fit for Bengals.

But outside of Travis Johnson and maybe Hawthorne, I'm not seeing any 1st rd DTs who are definitely going into draft.

Great Post Schwieny...

Really all of these guys are building to the Combine and individual workouts. February is gonna come real fast considering how fast 2004 went. But Here's how I see it...

Top DE ..

1. Marcus Spears De, Lsu - may not have great speed, but size, athleticism, and strength make him a very young looking version of Kevin Carter. ( Pro Bowl ) Kevin Carter.

2. Erasmus James De, Wisconsin - As long as he's behind the injury bug ( knee ) his quickness could make him the first DE taken.

3. Mathias Kiwanaku De, Boston College - True Hype player. Great height ( 6'7) decent speed ( 4.7 - ) small size 260 lbs. He's a certified playmaker, but he's not strong against the run. He can get to the quarterback, and should get better.

* If draft were today, James and ( Kiwi ) would go before Spears.

4. Bill Swancutt DE, Oregon. - Seriously benefitted from playing with Ngata. But he plays the run as well as any De in the country despite his small frame. Good pass rusher too!

5. Justin Tuck De, Notre Dame - Best pass rusher in the draft. Faster than James and Kiwanaku. Former LB so he's gonna have that " tweener " tag to him.

DT's

1. Rodrique Wright. - Hype is dropping on him, should pick back up after the Bowl season.

2. Travis Johnson - Hype on him is rising, he's gonna get better, key thing to watch on him is his endurance. He played in a rotation, so he's not really a full time starter.

3. Haloti Ngata - big strong quick, past knee injury, but if all we want is a run stuffer, he's the guy.

4. Antajj Hawthorne - good run stuffer. Not much of a pass rusher. Point of attack type of player. Wouldn't surprise me to watch him go late first round or drop to the 3rd.

5. Orien Harris - ( If he's declared ) Miami (FL.) Defensive Tackle. More of a pass rusher than a run defender.

6. Luis Castillo DT, Northwestern - Very good size, and run stuffing abilities. Good guy on a bad team that's all.

[schweinhart]

3. Mathias Kiwanaku De, Boston College - True Hype player. Great height ( 6'7) decent speed ( 4.7 - ) small size 260 lbs. He's a certified playmaker, but he's not strong against the run. He can get to the quarterback, and should get better.

I'm looking forward to watching at least an hour of BC vs. NC tomorrow. I just can't get it out of my head how tall Kiwi is and how scarce it seems that height like that blends well w/ front 7 unless they're of the abilities of Too Tall or The Stork.

To Kiwi's credit, he isn't skinny thin like Manny Lawson of NC St, but last I saw of Kiwi he looked like he needed to get his legs a lot stronger, especially lower.

[HoosierCat]

A note on Kiwi from gbn. Appears he's going to go pro.

Buzz: Top BC junior DE going pro... The buzz around Charlotte prior to tomorrow's Continental Tire matchup between Boston Colege and North Carolina is that BC junior DE Mathias Kiwanuka has all but decided to enter the 2005 draft where he could be a top 10 prospect. The 6-8, 250-pound Kiwanuka had 10 sacks and 19.5 sacks this fall, along with two interceptions.

[schweinhart]

A note on Kiwi from gbn. Appears he's going to go pro.

Buzz: Top BC junior DE going pro... The buzz around Charlotte prior to tomorrow's Continental Tire matchup between Boston Colege and North Carolina is that BC junior DE Mathias Kiwanuka has all but decided to enter the 2005 draft where he could be a top 10 prospect. The 6-8, 250-pound Kiwanuka had 10 sacks and 19.5 sacks this fall, along with two interceptions.

Kiwi has some serious speed on backside pursuit of run. He's got some punch w/ upper body strength too. His freakish height obviously could work to his advantage for tipped passes even if it puts him at more injury risk of being rolled or cut.

After watching Pollack, Spears, James and Roth again today, I'd say Kiwi would be the 1st DE picked if he declares just because the potential is enormous w/ his combination of speed and upper body strength.

[chrishcovga]

A note on Kiwi from gbn. Appears he's going to go pro.

Buzz: Top BC junior DE going pro... The buzz around Charlotte prior to tomorrow's Continental Tire matchup between Boston Colege and North Carolina is that BC junior DE Mathias Kiwanuka has all but decided to enter the 2005 draft where he could be a top 10 prospect. The 6-8, 250-pound Kiwanuka had 10 sacks and 19.5 sacks this fall, along with two interceptions.

Kiwi has some serious speed on backside pursuit of run. He's got some punch w/ upper body strength too. His freakish height obviously could work to his advantage for tipped passes even if it puts him at more injury risk of being rolled or cut.

After watching Pollack, Spears, James and Roth again today, I'd say Kiwi would be the 1st DE picked if he declares just because the potential is enormous w/ his combination of speed and upper body strength.

Kiwi on " potential " ...

David Pollack on production though.

Concerns I have about Kiwi, that I noticed during NC game were , he doesn't appear to chase when ball isn't going his direction or if he's been blocked well. His pursuit seems limited, and so does his upper body strength.

* No where near as impressive as Terrell Suggs was coming out of College if he declares !

[bengalboomer7]

I mentioned a DT from Utah in another thread and he looked pretty good. Said he could bench 475!!!!

[schweinhart]

Kiwi on " potential " ...

David Pollack on production though.

Concerns I have about Kiwi, that I noticed during NC game were , he doesn't appear to chase when ball isn't going his direction or if he's been blocked well. His pursuit seems limited, and so does his upper body strength.

* No where near as impressive as Terrell Suggs was coming out of College if he declares !

Pollack does seem to offer more sight seen than Kiwi.

There might be some downside to Kiwi but he's one of these players like D.J. Williams and Sean Taylor last year who show they can physically perform at a level that others can not. Kiwi looks like a higher pick IMO but the draft looks unclear as to who the top pick will be, let alone a consensus of the top 10.

Then there's always Halati Ngata

[pokeytolman]

4. Bill Swancutt DE, Oregon. - Seriously benefitted from playing with Ngata. But he plays the run as well as any De in the country despite his small frame. Good pass rusher too!

Swancutt played for Oregon state, Ngata for Oregon, they have never played together.

Oh and you guys Have an Oregon State connection not Oregon both Chad and T.J. played for OSU, besides of which were both orange and black. Good luck this year I adopted the Bengals a few years back because of the Osu players.

[BengalszoneBilly]

A 6'5" 345 lb. defensive tackle with a unique name.

If the Bengals draft this guy, it would be my Christmas come early! This guy has "Run Stuffer" written all over him! :player:

[AGrizzlyBaer]

ngata is staying in school... so i dont know why we are still talking about him...

[BengalszoneBilly]

ngata is staying in school... so i dont know why we are still talking about him...

Dammit! Would somebody please tell this guy how stupid it is to stay in school when you...uh...because, er....

WTF am I saying! We'll get him next year then, how's that.

[BengalPappaw]

With all due respect, any body who thinks that Marcus Spears is (or will be) a better DE than Pollack, should check out the Ga vs LSU game in 2004.

Clearly, Pollack applied more pressure, had more pursuit, made more tackles behind the line of scrimmage, and made BIG plays than Spears.

If that is NOT enough, check out Spears in ANY game -- he will make one, two or maybe three plays during game. Other than that he's a spectator. I wasted several hours watching 8 games by Spears and --- WHAT A WASTE!!! I want a FULL time DE, not a Marcus Spears.

I want a PLAYER -- not numbers about what he might do. All Spears has is size -- not desire.

P.S. Why is this thread talking about Ngata and Kiwanuka? -- I thought both were returning to school.

[#85MVP]

If we run a 3-4 more this year spears is the only 1st round end to fit that scheme to play end. james, pollack, and d.cody all weigh 260-275. spears is listed at 297. if we played a 260-275 pounder at end with a 3-4 we'd get ran all over, which would keep run-stopping our biggest weakness.

but personally id rather see us replace kevin hardy

why are you guys talkin about ngata and kiwi. if we play like we should next season they'll be gone by the time a playoff team picks

[AbeVigoda]

FYI

http://bceagles.collegesports.com/sports/m.../010705aab.html

Jan. 7, 2005

Boston College defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka announced Friday that he has decided to return to Boston College for his senior season of football. Kiwanuka had been considering entering the upcoming NFL draft.

[joseph]

Sorry buddy unfortunately Haloti Ngata isn't in this years draft, and will probably end up being a top 10 pick in next years draft. So the chances of ever seeing him in a Bengals jersey probably isn't very good when they win the Super Bowl next year. The more I look at the Bengals situation Spears is looking more and more like the most logical pick. First the Bengals have to shut down the run on first down. It sounds simple, but you have to start somewhere. You just can't let offenses gain 4-5 yards on first down running. It opens up too many options for the offense. Spears appears to be the best DE at stopping the run available. Second Spears can also play DT and since the Bengals are planning on using more specialized packages on passing downs he would give them more options with the most logical being, playing Spears and Askew at DT on passing downs and Robert Geathers and Justin Smith at DE. Or they could probably use same 4 in 3-4 defensive scheme. I think from that perspective it just makes sense. Plus you throw in the fact that Spears sounds like he's a "good character" guy and posseses great physical abilities for a man of his size. Also if the Bengals wanted to they could probably trade down to draft him. It appears with the Senior Bowl that Roth has probably moved up to the #2 rated DE behind Eramus James. So if the Bengals can move down 4-5 slots and pick up some extra draft picks is always a good thing

[BengalPappaw]

Joseph,

I hate to keep bad mouthing Marcus Spears -- but here I go again!

IMHO. He just a size guy -- NOT a real player. Unless you count one to three plays per game.

Take the time to watch him play against real players.

Last year in a game he was single blocked for most of a game by a TE and could not get around him. The TE was a good one -- Ben Troupe. But, that is the level of talent he will see in the pros.

Admittedly, Spears sounds good from the size numbers --- and in the old days the Bengals would jump at the numbers. I believe Marvin wants players with speed and hustle. Players who can and will run down a QB or RB -- that is not Spears unless it is one of his 2-3 plays per game.

Then again -- I was wrong last year so why should I be right this year!

[#85MVP]

no matter how much any of us hate or love spears, hes the only end that fits in our shceme. i think we shuld wait a few rounds until a REAL run stuffer comes along.

[joseph]

In all honesty I have never seen Spears play, I can only go off what I read other say about him. So you very right, I really know nothing more of him than that.. Might be a good thing though because if I had game tape of college games, I would probably just sit around and watch them all night. Can't be worse than American Idol though He does sound good, but I really have only read nothing more than sizes, stats, estimated 40 times and opinions. I personally like several players before Spears, but none of them are at the most dire needs of this team. It is imperative for the Bengals to go to the playoffs next year. Marvin has a lot of momentum going in favor of the Bengals, but it's still a fragile franchise with a ravenous crowd for a winning season. I fear if they were to not make the playoffs, or even worse finish below 500 next year, I think a lot of that momentum might be lost. It's a very important offseason.. And until I see them sign a great free agent run stopping D-lineman, I'll have to insist that they draft a run stopping DE or DT first round. The D-line has to hold up at the point of attack. You just can't consistently be knock back from the line of scrimmage and play good defense. So my only projection at this point in the offseason would be a player that can consitently re-establish the line of scrimmage in favor of the defense. Even if it's only a couple of feet, even if they don't make the tackle. Re-establish the line of scrimmage and keep the o-line off the linbackers. Marvins defense is designed to have the linbackers make the tackle on running plays. If there's a better player at his respective position at knocking blockers back, or just holding the point of attack, then I'd be in favor of taking them. But from what a read about Spears, he sounds like he'd be a good run stopping DE

[BengalszoneBilly]

Might be a good thing though because if I had game tape of college games, I would probably just sit around and watch them all night. Can't be worse than American Idol though

There is NOTHING worse than watching the agony called American Idol! Viewing old college football games ain't even close to that level of bad!

[BersMrnsT]

The D-line has to hold up at the point of attack. You just can't consistently be knock back from the line of scrimmage and play good defense. So my only projection at this point in the offseason would be a player that can consitently re-establish the line of scrimmage in favor of the defense.

no matter how much any of us hate or love spears, hes the only end that fits in our shceme. i think we shuld wait a few rounds until a REAL run stuffer comes along

These points are exactly why I won't stop repeating the names Ronald Fields and Luis Castillo up until draft day. These guys are the definition of run-stuffing, space eaters that occupy double teams and free up linebackers. Castillo will probably be there late 2nd round/early 3rd, and Fields could be there as late as early second day. Either one of them in Stripes would make me very optimistic. One person mentioned Anthony Bryant, but from what I've read, he's not as highly regarded as Fields or Castillo and will probably require more work before he can contribute.