It's that time again

[chrishcovga]

We're going to have to look at our draft needs in a whole new perspective because of the Chris Perry situation. His surgery for a " Sports Hernia " could be career threatening. It's the same surgery Barry Larkin had a few years back and he' hasn't been the same since. While Perry is 23 years old, he may be able to recoup and recover quite nicely, however I doubt seriously that he becomes the player Marvin and Co. ( most likely Mike Brown ) thought he would be when drafted.

But our priorities should be DT, C, DE, SS.....

As for the Running back situation * 4th round seems to be a very popular place to find a suitable backup or starter even.. A guy like DeAngelo Williams could slip with his recent injury if he declares for aprils draft. Clarett becomes an option too for the later rounds as well, 6th if he's there.

[skyline]

Anyone know where Munoz is projected to go in the draft?

[JPW]

Anyone know where Munoz is projected to go in the draft?

Right now it looks like he'll go in the 2nd round.

BTW, does anybody know if he has ever played any where on the OL other than tackle ?

[schweinhart]

I have NOT been impressed by Rod Wright. I've got several game tapes and he just doesn't find the ball or dominate like I would like for a 1st round draft choice. He doesn't make the big plays.

After watching Rose Bowl, I'll second this about Rodrique Wright.

Plus after Wisconsin-Georgia, I don't think Hawthorne is worth a 1st rd pick.

Pollack is a gamer w/ real skills who could handle DE and possibly be brought into SSLB. He may be around at the middle of 1st but I'd be surprised.

Travis Johnson does seem to play w/ a desire to get the job done and has the speed at the LOS to be a real playmaker on the interior provided he doesn't get shoved around by larger O-linemen.

One player I like a lot more after New Years than the last time I watched him is Jonathan Babineaux of Iowa. At 285-290 lbs., he was real active in the interior and has good enough pursuit to fill the Bengals DE/DT void if Powell isn't signed. He might still be available in 3rd rd.

[chrishcovga]

If we go with a guy like Babineaux, I'd rather see us grab a guy like Cody. Quickness to play on the edge, though not a dominant pass rusher, And decent enough size to play inside.

But depending on Marcus Spears injury in yesterdays' Bowl game, Pollack may be the safer choice.

One things' for certain. Travis Johnson played like a MAN yesterday!

- Antajj Hawthorne is too slow and fat !

- Erasmus James has no real pass rush moves.

- Spears injury will probably push him out as a mid to late first rounder come April.

Jason Brown from N.Carolina is an impressive athlete for a Center.

[schweinhart]

If we go with a guy like Babineaux, I'd rather see us grab a guy like Cody. Quickness to play on the edge, though not a dominant pass rusher, And decent enough size to play inside.

first rounder come April.

I'm guessing Shaun Cody not Dan.

Looking forward to the Orange Bowl Tuesday to get to see the finales for a bunch of great players from Ok. and USC.

(Monday night too w/ Auburn vs. Va Tech)

[BengalPappaw]

After watching Jimmy Williams against Auburn, I think he would be an excellent choice in the first or second round.

He's 6-2+ 215 lbs and is playing very good CB. Last year he played FS.

[schweinhart]

After watching Jimmy Williams against Auburn, I think he would be an excellent choice in the first or second round.

He's 6-2+ 215 lbs and is playing very good CB. Last year he played FS.

If Williams declares, he'd be a great pick if he was available in the 2nd (proly gone by then though). He's got the Madieu versatility and could be situationally interchangeable at the safety position plus play CB if necessary.

I still like James Butler at safety, maybe stronger at SS than Williams but not quite the run stopper that Davis looks like he'll be.

[ArmyBengal]

I agree a thread at each position would be good instead of talking about everyone in 10 different threads. However, I think a lot remains to be seen from Askew and how much can he be coached up. I think this is the train of thought with Andrews on the O-line as well. I say if we don't draft a DT or find one in FA, a witch hunt should ensue, with MB the witch in question. The bigboy from Oregon would be nice if he comes out. I like Baas out of Michigan for our Center position. Bring Braham back for another year, dump Fontenot and school up Baas. He is big and will be great. Noted as a quick learner and by watching him in the Rose Bowl against the so-called best DT Wright, I was impressed. Tight End has to be addressed, no need for 3 TE's that can't do more than 1 thing. Jack of all trades saying applies here... The Saftey out of VT looks promising if he comes out, but seems a little light in the A$$ at 191, could be wrong... After that, not real concerned at this point as our FA's need to be taken care of. Another speed receiver ?? Another CB ?? Another LB ?? All in time I suppose. Hoping for great things...

WHODEY !!!

[jamesbrooks21]

Our TE's have been used for pass protection in passing situations. That is the reason none of them are putting up numbers. C'mon Reggie Kelly was not brought in here for his recieving skills. Marvin even said something to that effect when someone asked about the pass protection being really good lately he replied something to the effect of "Yeah everyone wants to talk about how were not getting any production from the tight end position, but who do you think is helping block for Carson?" IMO I just don't see drafting a TE high in the draft .

[chrishcovga]

Bowls finally over, ( except the Senior bowls and such ) but finally got to look at some of the elite Talent ( supposedly ) with the Sooners and Trojans.

First of All , I'd like to take this moment to once again remind people that the Pac-10 is one of the better conferences and I'd like to Congratulate the University of Southern California for

-- BEATING THE BREAKS OFF OF THE Oklahoma Sooners --

Guys that were impressive....

1. Carlos Rodgers CB, Auburn - Gotta love his size, speed and coverage abilty. Could be Tory James' replacement.

2. Jimmy Williams CB , VA.Tech. - I think his best position isn't settled yet.

3. Travis Johnson DT, Florida ST. - Looks the part, plays the part.

4. David Pollack DE, Georgia - Guy does everything well... ( Maybe we should have drafted Richard Seymour back in '01 and taken this guy as our DE...)???

Not so Impressive -

1. Eric Green CB, Va. Tech - That guy got turned and burned more than Kielbasa Sausage.And he's a hot-head to boot !

2. Antajj Hawthorne DT, Wisconsin - Looked slow, and Lethargic, Not worthy of a first round pick.

3. All ( ALL ) of the Virginia Cavalier linebackers. - Ahmad Brooks, Darryl Blackstock were caught out of position so many times it was pathetic.

4. Donte Nicholson and Brodney Pool ( Safeties ) for the Oklahoma Sooners. Looked more like Linebackers playing Safeties than Safeties that can hit like Linebackers !

[BengalszoneBilly]

Not so Impressive -

1. Eric Green CB, Va. Tech - That guy got turned and burned more than Kielbasa Sausage.And he's a hot-head to boot !

2. Antajj Hawthorne DT, Wisconsin - Looked slow, and Lethargic, Not worthy of a first round pick.

3. All ( ALL ) of the Virginia Cavalier linebackers. - Ahmad Brooks, Darryl Blackstock were caught out of position so many times it was pathetic.

4. Donte Nicholson and Brodney Pool ( Safeties ) for the Oklahoma Sooners. Looked more like Linebackers playing Safeties than Safeties that can hit like Linebackers !

#5: The Oklahoma kick returner (He wears #1, as in the #1 idiot!) who stupidly tried to pick up the ball, touched it while surrounded by Trojan players, and ended up losing it, which opened up the flood gates for USC! No player THAT boneheaded should EVER be considered for drafting.

I guess there's no doubt as to the National Champs this year!

[schweinhart]

With underclassmen now declaring, here goes another round of nothing for Benglas 2005 draft picks.

1. Channing Crowder LB -- Can do it all at LB and might have to real soon. Way too athletic for his size to let pass by.

2. Jason Brown C -- Too good at road grading, quick enough to get where he needs to be to block, and pass protects well.

3. T.A. McClendon -- Every bit as versatile and powerful as Steven Jackson but injuries and motivation will drop him in draft.

4. Jonathan Babineaux DE/DT -- Dude wants to play in a bad way and could prove he should for Bengals in rook season.

5. Craig Bragg WR -- Great hands and route running w/ enough speed to cause mismatch probelms in 3 or 4 WR sets for other team's secondary.

6. Chris Holmes TE -- This guy would be a steal in 6th. Potential to be every down TE as he showed when given op w/ Toledo.

7. Dwight Ellick CB -- Raw and small but fast.

Picks figure Rudi and Housh re-signed.

[HoosierCat]

I saw Crowder pop up on some very early mocks as a possible Cincy pick. Kid is definitely a specimen but IIRC lacks experience and has some off-field issues (something about fighting with cops). I agree that we still need to look at LB, and I'm not against spending our first rounder on a LB, but Crowder has that "big upside" tag and that just makes me...itchy.

C in the second sounds good to me. Tho it's beginning to look like a good year for corners. gbnreport says today that...

In a case of the rich keeps getting richer, the increasingly strong CB position for the 2005 draft got a little stronger with Tennessee junior CB Jason Allen having reportedly decided to enter this year's draft. Allen joins fellow junior CBs Adam Jones of West Virginia, Justin Miller of Clemson and Fabian Washington of Nebraska, as well as star Oregon State sophomore Brandon Browner who have already entered the 2005 draft making the CB position one of the real strengths at this year's draft.

...so there may well be a solid CB prospect sitting there in the second. If so they might try to wait until the 3rd to get a center.

Hard to see a first-day RB (assuming, as you do, Rudi stays). But if Watson doesn't re-up, I suppose they might. Gotta believe ML wants to spend at least 2 of the first day's 3 on D, tho. Maybe safety help here instead, or d-line...?

I'll trust ya on the day 2 guys!

[schweinhart]

Crowder does have a head case potential. And other options at LB would seem more solid from the questionable character angle if the Hawkeyes Abdul Hodge and Chad Greenway declare.

An LB w/ the 1st pick is bound to seem like drafting to strength but no where near what drafting a CB would be IMO. The number of excellent CBs in 2005 probably exceeds the 7 selected in the 1st 2 rds last year.

Still, there is no need to draft a CB even w/ James aging because the secondary overall w/ the versatility of K2 and Madieu should make it abundantly clear that:

1. The personnel is deep and can cover.

2. More pressure needs to be applied to QB to lessen time that DBs have to cover. Where a defensive line can pass rush effectively and force the QB to make mistakes, a CB doesn't have to be quite as good as otherwise necessary if the QB is in the pocket forever.

If #2 could be answered w/ 1st Day picks, so be it, but IMO it'll take a UFA like Douglas or Pat Williams to immediately stop the bleeding at DT on both run defense and pass rush.

But you're right not to trust me about Day 1 picks. I don't think Darnell Dockett, Dwan Edwards, Marquise Hill, and Tony Hargrove would've made enough impact w/ the Bengals in 2004 to make the D-line deficiencies not an issue this year.

Trust me good w/ Day 2. Rod Davis, Rex Hadnot, and Turner the Burner -- they would have solved some of the problems ahead for 2005.

As for RB on 1st day in 2005, I'm not sure why that won't be expected given the bevy of prospects and the injury status of Perry and the chance that Watson will be tendered more than the $620k which would have to be matched by Bengals to keep him.

[HoosierCat]

Hey, I was the official Rod Davis pimp on this board last year! Haven't decided which project I'm going to champion this year yet...

If you've read the other thread, you know I disagree on the issue of need when it comes to corners and LBs...but one argument per thread, eh? A day 1 corner or safety, I think, is almost a must (assuming of course we don't find something in FA). As far as LB is concerned, you can make an equally strong case that our problem stopping the run wasn't because the DTs couldn't hold down the middle, but because we couldn't stop opposing backs when they got outside, either.

The emerging viewpoint is that Marvin wants to trade down and stockpile picks, and I think the overall thin-ness of the D, even at positions of relative strength, explains why. I'm still not sure that I agree with the strategy. We've spent a lot of draft picks and got a lot of youth the last couple years and I would hate to have to shoehorn in another 9-11 rooks on the roster. But it isn't my call...

I could see RB if the Bengals didn't appear ready to use the tag on Rudi, and they appear stubbornly set on Perry...just can't see it on day 1...

[schweinhart]

The draft projects are definitely out there in 2005 in more ways than one.

As far as current team projects from draft go, IIRC Robert Geathers was a junior like Askew so ML has some history there w/ the young'uns as developmental projects.

Got the feeling there's a whole lot more underclassmen coming out before deadline so the full scope of the available projects remains to be seen in the near future.

But while you're on the run D Yes. Outside was a problem too and not just outside of the ends around contain but also bounced out from inside of contain where LBs should be for contact. Of course, inside running was often the most noticeable nightmare when DTs were manhandled at line and DBs like K2, Madieu, and Herring put in bad situations vs. runners stronger than them and in many cases who were already running downhill.

Geathers seems like a 2004 draft ringer by ML as far as contributing much improved contain over Clemons at LDE. Besides, Geathers is emerging as a playmaker, not just the INT TD off Blake but also the tipped pass that led to the Powell INT vs. Giants (good thing Powell got blown off the line or he'd have not made the pick ), and of course the sack/fumble forced/fumble recovery masterpiece he did to Vinny.

So in terms of draft, I'd say less need for a DE to compete to start w/ Geathers and Clemons in and more priority on LB who might better stop some of the bleeding vs. the outside run game, as well as make plays at line and improve pass coverage at that position. Hardy is not fast but he's durable and could be pass rush DE if injuries affect DE position. However, he is clearly overvalued in terms of his cap hit in 2005.

It's mentioned that the Silent Assassin could be Hardy's replacement but there's wildcards in the Natester coming back from a serious patella tendon tear, Simmons getting aged, and Landon himself whose shoulders are prone to pop out of socket. Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins, Larry Stevens, Khalid Abdullah, Frank Chamberlin, etc do not seem likely to fill the shoes of Hardy or Simmons. The Bengals face a similar situation w/ Hardy as Tony Williams last year. He's on the chopping block but don't chop until somebody else at least as good (or not as bad) is there to fill his shoes.

Now you want to consider DBs as a must for a Day 1 pick. It is definitely an outstanding year to do that. If that's the route, then I say safety, especially w/ the question marks surrounding Beckett. However. IMO the primary problems w/ the D are up front w/ run D and pass rush and I don't see that changing w/ the available draft pool in terms of DE and DT.

So the draft looks like more of a choice of do you load up Carson w/ better pass protection, better run blockers and better skill players or do you want ML to put his D-mind wizardry to the task of picking primarily defensive players to help build toward a championship unit on that side of the ball while ML is here to do it. The best way to get a little of both is to get more picks and sort out who's who from the past 2 drafts and the younger players on the roster through accelerated competition in 2005.

[HoosierCat]

I agree that LB should be a focus over DE, if it comes down to that. Clemons just got extended, Geathers looks like he'll grow into something worthwhile, and Justin Smith's cap number pretty much keeps him here at least one more year. I do like chrish's idea of adding a younger DT/DE type like Spears, but we'd likely have to spend our No. 1 to get him and I'm not sure if that would give us the biggest bang for our buck.

If I had to lay bets at this point, I think that Marvin will make a run at filling two holes with top-shelf FAs come March. One will be a LB, and whatever deal he signs will be offset in cap terms by cutting Hardy. The other will be an offensive lineman, almost certainly a center or center/guard.

I think that would increase the chances of a pick like Spears as well as a second-round corner. The wild card is this desire for another big, speedy wideout that's being bandied about...

[schweinhart]

Free agency is definitely a kicker as to what the draft will hold -- both other teams UFAs and Bengals UFAs.

If it comes down to pursuing UFAs, I'd like to see DT at the top of the list. Either Douglas, Big Pat or Jason Ferguson. But it looks like Shaun Smith is going to get every op to prove himself. Got to wonder if ML didn't ask Fontenot about Smith before Bengals claimed him.

At LB I'm not seeing a chase for the likes of Hartwell, Bell, Peterson but rather maybe a second-tier guy like Orlando Huff.

Other have pointed out that Raiola is out there at C and may be the only solid C under 33 or 34 yrs old. But it sounds like he wants to stick w. Lions and I doubt Mooch will let him go. I'd be surprised to see Bengals chase a guard at this point.

So, free agent wise, I'm not seeing much big ticket activity -- maybe even less than last year w/ Bobbie Williams, Natester, and Kim Herring.

If Rudi and Housh aren't re-signed, then the free agent pursuits would seem likely to increase.

[JPW]

It's mentioned that the Silent Assassin could be Hardy's replacement but there's wildcards in the Natester coming back from a serious patella tendon tear, Simmons getting aged, and Landon himself whose shoulders are prone to pop out of socket. Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins, Larry Stevens, Khalid Abdullah, Frank Chamberlin, etc do not seem likely to fill the shoes of Hardy or Simmons.

Does this guy sound like a ML type of LB or what...

Draft Countdown

Abdul Hodge

College: Iowa Height: 6-2

Position: Inside Linebacker Weight: 232

Class: Junior 40-Yard: 4.60

SCOUTING REPORT

Strengths: Great pure athletic ability...Excellent speed...Hits like a ton of bricks...Very productive and seemingly all over the field...Smart...Plays a physical brand of football.

Weaknesses: Has only average size and needs to add some weight...Will he be able to maintain his speed as he gets bigger?...Has played on a very talented defense and has had a lot of help.

Notes: Nickname is "Hitman"...Was born in the Virgin Islands...A linebacker who can make in impact in every facet of the game.

[joseph]

Actually I already figured out the perfect offseason for the Bengals It starts off on a bummer with letting Rudi and TJ walk. Rudi is a good/great running back, but it's becoming evident most backs in the NFL are good/great runners. The only difference is that Rudi got a chance to carry the load. TJ also is a tough player to let go. It's not in the budget to pay him the jack though. At least there's a little bright lining in that the Bengals will probably get some compensation picks in a couple years. Then all that saved money will be used to sign a new defensive line. Both the signing of Michael Strahan and Cory Simon on the same day to matching 4 year 20 million dollar contracts with 10 million signing bonus; of course:) Now I'm no rocket scientist or anything but I think that would go a loooong way to solving this teams problems with stopping the run and rushing the passer. And don't tell me there isn't room under the cap either, there's room. Next the draft. I like the Heath Miller pick it would go along way to squaring up the departure of TJ, and the Bengals could probably trade down and pick up an extra 4th round pick. Plus it's about time we get our go to TE. 2nd round the Bengals take Craphonso (damn that guys mom is mean), I can't even rember the guy's last name. I do rember he's a blazing freakin fast reciever. World class speed baby! Heck it doesn't even make a difference if he can catch, just put him in the slot and tell him to run as fast as he can towards the endzone. He'll put a lot of pressure on the safeties. 3rd round yes I'm still a believer Maurice Clarett . Use the two fourth round picks on some O-line men for some depth, 5th take another RB. Someone's going to get this running game taken care of it doesn't matter if it's Perry, Watson or a 5th round pick but someone going to carry the ball. 6th round a little LB depth. Then the Bengals go 16-0 next season and go down as the greatest team in football history. mmmmmm that's one good Snickers Good ol' offseason; where hope spring eternal.

[schweinhart]

Does this guy sound like a ML type of LB or what...

Draft Countdown

Abdul Hodge

College: Iowa Height: 6-2

Position: Inside Linebacker Weight: 232

Class: Junior 40-Yard: 4.60

SCOUTING REPORT

Strengths: Great pure athletic ability...Excellent speed...Hits like a ton of bricks...Very productive and seemingly all over the field...Smart...Plays a physical brand of football.

Weaknesses: Has only average size and needs to add some weight...Will he be able to maintain his speed as he gets bigger?...Has played on a very talented defense and has had a lot of help.

Notes: Nickname is "Hitman"...Was born in the Virgin Islands...A linebacker who can make in impact in every facet of the game.

Abdul Hodge reminded me a lot of the Natester. To me, he looks like a 2nd or 3rd rounder if he declares and has the speed and desire to be a nice fit for the Bengals D-scheme.

His teammate Chad Greenway at outside backer would likely be more sought after than Hodge.

There are two super athletes out there who could be available in the 2nd or 3rd at LB:

Michael Boley of Southern Miss would be good at weakside but needs to bulk up about 10 lbs.

Demarcus Ware of Troy State. He played DE this year but would not in NFL. He'd make an ideal SSLB and has the potential to fit at all 3 LB spots. I only got to see Ware in an absolute mud bowl (Silicon Valley Holiday Classic, IIRC) but he's got the physical skills. He'd be a project a couple of yrs. in the making but should land somwhere and succeed.

[San Antonio Bengal]

Actually I already figured out the perfect offseason for the Bengals   It starts off on a bummer with letting Rudi and TJ walk. Rudi is a good/great running back, but it's becoming evident most backs in the NFL are good/great runners. The only difference is that Rudi got a chance to carry the load. TJ also is a tough player to let go. It's not in the budget to pay him the jack though. At least there's a little bright lining in that the Bengals will probably get some compensation picks in a couple years.  Then all that saved money will be used to sign a new defensive line. Both the signing of Michael Strahan and Cory Simon on the same day to matching 4 year 20 million dollar contracts with 10 million signing bonus; of course:) Now I'm no rocket scientist or anything but I think that would go a loooong way to solving this teams problems with stopping the run and rushing the passer. And don't tell me there isn't room under the cap either, there's room. Next the draft. I like the Heath Miller pick it would go along way to squaring up the departure of TJ, and the Bengals could probably trade down and pick up an extra 4th round pick. Plus it's about time we get our go to TE. 2nd round the Bengals take Craphonso (damn that guys mom is mean), I can't even rember the guy's last name. I do rember he's a blazing freakin fast reciever. World class speed baby! Heck it doesn't even make a difference if he can catch, just put him in the slot and tell him to run as fast as he can towards the endzone. He'll put a lot of pressure on the safeties. 3rd round yes I'm still a believer Maurice Clarett . Use the two fourth round picks on some O-line men for some depth, 5th take another RB. Someone's going to get this running game taken care of it doesn't matter if it's Perry, Watson or a 5th round pick but someone going to carry the ball. 6th round a little LB depth. Then the Bengals go 16-0 next season and go down as the greatest team in football history. mmmmmm that's one good Snickers Good ol' offseason; where hope spring eternal.

Dude, lay off the crack pipe.

[HoosierCat]

If it comes down to pursuing UFAs, I'd like to see DT at the top of the list. Either Douglas, Big Pat or Jason Ferguson. But it looks like Shaun Smith is going to get every op to prove himself. Got to wonder if ML didn't ask Fontenot about Smith before Bengals claimed him.

At LB I'm not seeing a chase for the likes of Hartwell, Bell, Peterson but rather maybe a second-tier guy like Orlando Huff.

Other have pointed out that Raiola is out there at C and may be the only solid C under 33 or 34 yrs old. But it sounds like he wants to stick w. Lions and I doubt Mooch will let him go. I'd be surprised to see Bengals chase a guard at this point.

So, free agent wise, I'm not seeing much big ticket activity -- maybe even less than last year w/ Bobbie Williams, Natester, and Kim Herring.

DT would be my first choice too, but given the relatively weak DT draft class this year, FA DTs will be even higher-priced than usual. If they pick up anyone there I think it will either be a Deltha O'Neal-type "former top pick gone bust" player (think Chris Hovan from Minny) or some really aging vet, a la Norman Hand. I don't mind giving Smith a shot because I think we're going to have to grow our own successes at DT, which means Moore and Askew are really on the hot seat next season.

LB is where I think they're likliest to make a FA splash, just because there are a ton of FA LBs as well as few good ones (like Crowder) in the draft, so their price tags shouldn't be too high. I've seen some speculation that the Fins might let Zach Thomas go, and while he's no spring chicken he seems to have plenty left in the tank.

If it turns out there isn't anything to chase on the o-line, it will be interesting to see if the Bengals take a look at the FA TE market...

But yeah, I agree, I don't see a big-spending year outside of our own guys (Rudi, TJ) either.

[chrishcovga]

LB has to be one of the more deep positions for the 05 draft. There are a couple of players that I would love to be Bengals... Especially if we go LB in rounds 2-5...

#1. Kirk Morrison Lb, San Diego St. - This guy has a Zach Thomas feel about him. He's a natural playmaker with good speed, and super smarts. He is " real " inside Linebacker and could challenge Webster immediately .

# 2. Barret Ruud Lb, Nebraska. - A lot of his hype comes from the fact that he's extremely quick. But he's faster than his '40 time. His instincts and read & react abilities are top notch.

# 3. Lional Turner Lb, LSU. - He can play all 3 linebacker spots and manned the MLB for one of the Nations Best defenses. Smart with great size. He's an upgrade wherever he plays.