I say Kitna in until 1 more loss.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Kitna's first season as a Bengals starter(and he had previous starting experience in Seatlle).

12 TD's-22 INT's-QB rating of 61.1

Palmer's first year as a starter through ten games with NO prior starting experience in the NFL.

9 TD's-13 INT's-QB rating of 67.2

Kitna had two passes for over 40 yards that season;Palmer already has five.

Just food for thought.

What's your point? We aren't talking about Kitna's first season , we are talking about NOW.

[oldschooler]

Fact is Palmer has faced the top D`s in the NFL.

Steelers #1 Defense (lost in the final 2 minutes both games)

Washington #2 Defense (won)

Baltimore #3 Defense (had 300 yards passing...lost in the 4th quarter)

Denver #6 Defense (won)

Miami #7 Defense (won)

Jets #9 Defense (lost in the 4th quarter ...had no Defensive help)

Titans #10 Defense (lost in the 4th quarter)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-...ar?sort_col_1=4

This has been with a banged up O-line. No threat at TE. Only 1 true threat

at WR. And a running game that has 2 GAMES with a 100 yard rusher.

Yeah Palmer has done awful. Break out the bust tag !!!!

[HoosierCat]

What's your point? We aren't talking about Kitna's first season , we are talking about NOW.

I believe his point was that Kitna struggled in his first year in Brat's system, just as Palmer's doing now. A look back is actually more instructive than I thought. Kit played in about 9 games his first two years before taking over as a starter in Seattle, where he did this:

1999 sea 15 games, 54.5% completion, 3346 yards, 23 TD, 16 INT

2000 sea 15, 62.0%, 2658, 18, 19

His 1st year here, tho, he took a big step back, completing just 54% of passes for 3,216 yards, 12 TDs and 22 picks.

As for NOW, the point is that benching Palmer serves no purpose. Even 10-6 this year is no guarantee of the playoffs, the AFC is too strong. And the chances we could win out even with Kit are not any lower than us winning out with Palmer (because you can't get lower than 0%). Let him stay in and work. The history of both rookie QBs and Kitna says it's worth it.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Noone is saying Palmer is a bust yet, at least I'm not, but there have to be consequences for fouling up that bad, and being benched is one consequence.

[Sox]

What's your point?  We aren't talking about Kitna's first season , we are talking about NOW.

I believe his point was that Kitna struggled in his first year in Brat's system, just as Palmer's doing now. A look back is actually more instructive than I thought. Kit played in about 9 games his first two years before taking over as a starter in Seattle, where he did this:

1999 sea 15 games, 54.5% completion, 3346 yards, 23 TD, 16 INT

2000 sea 15, 62.0%, 2658, 18, 19

His 1st year here, tho, he took a big step back, completing just 54% of passes for 3,216 yards, 12 TDs and 22 picks.

As for NOW, the point is that benching Palmer serves no purpose. Even 10-6 this year is no guarantee of the playoffs, the AFC is too strong. And the chances we could win out even with Kit are not any lower than us winning out with Palmer (because you can't get lower than 0%). Let him stay in and work. The history of both rookie QBs and Kitna says it's worth it.

Joiseycat,thank you.

NBT,as for"what's my point",it is we are 4-6 with road games at Philadephia,New England,and Baltimore.I believe we can win the rest of our home games,but winning 2 out of 3 on the road against those teams is unlikely,and even then 9-7 probably wouldn't get us in the playoffs.

Bringing Kitna in,when he is a proven mediocre QB(I base this on his CAREER,not one season)might wreck Palmer's confidence,and at the least take away valuable playing time when he could be getting experience.Or do you want to start all over again next year?

Not staying the course is the type of decision Lebeau and Coslet would make,not Marvin,so you may as well get used to the fact the Palmer will remain the starter.

[wookie]

Noone is saying Palmer is a bust yet, at least I'm not, but there have to be consequences for fouling up that bad, and being benched is one consequence.

And who gets benched along with Palmer?? Yes you make a mistake by throwing the ball into coverage and the other team gets a TD off the pick. What did he do?? He tried to make a play because the offense was struggling and I've seen much better QB's with years of experience do the same thing. He also composed himself, came back onto the field and led a drive that ended with a BEAUTIFUL TD pass to Washington. That is what defines a QB, not 1 or 2 bad plays. Palmer actually outplayed the Golden Boy Big Ben.

Kitna does not automatically give this team a better shot at winning. The games in New England, Baltimore, and Philadelphia are going to be tough for the Bengals no matter who the QB is. Also, a 10-6 record would still only tie for 1st in the division if Pittsburgh happens to lose all but 1 of their remaining 6 games and they have the tie breaker in every scenario over the Bengals. Not to mention the other teams in the AFC that would be in contention for the Wild Card...Baltimore is 7-3 and also have the better record within the division, the Jets have beaten the Bengals and are poised to make a run at the Wild Card, The Broncos and Chargers are both at 7-3 also and fighting for the division, and the Jaguars are fighting to stay in the race.

We have to face the fact that it would take a lot of help, and the Bengals would have to win out for them to make the Playoffs. I'd take my chances with a lottery ticket first. That said, its Palmer's job, he should finish what he started and try to show that he is the QB of the future. I think he'll do a good job the rest of the year, and he'll do a great job next year.

The backup QB is always the most popular guy in town when the team struggles. QB changes really worked for Washinton and Miami and Cleveland this year.(sarcasm)

If a team is good enough, then they'll be able to win even if their QB makes a couple of bad decisions. The really good teams can win even if the starter has to sit out due to injury. The only situation in which I would agree that Palmer should get benched and Kitna go in is if the Bengals had that kind of team, and they don't.

[Tampa Bengal]

Yeah, he needs to handle pressure better. But, I don't think being quiet has anything to do with how much you want to win and how competetive you are.

No your right being quite doesn't but how many competitive quite guys do you know? I don't know many which makes me think he doesn't care or doesn't have the guts to get in someones face. I hope that this quietness is just because he is basically still a rookie and doesn't feel comfortable about getting in guys faces who don't block. QBs need to be field generals. Palmer needs to get in the face of some of the line and let them know about doing their job. I'm not saying be a jerk but show some backbone. Let people know your not afraid.

[oldschooler]

Yeah, he needs to handle pressure better. But, I don't think being quiet has anything to do with how much you want to win and how competetive you are.

No your right being quite doesn't but how many competitive quite guys do you know? I don't know many which makes me think he doesn't care or doesn't have the guts to get in someones face. I hope that this quietness is just because he is basically still a rookie and doesn't feel comfortable about getting in guys faces who don't block. QBs need to be field generals. Palmer needs to get in the face of some of the line and let them know about doing their job. I'm not saying be a jerk but show some backbone. Let people know your not afraid.

If I remember right Montana had the same

personality as Palmer.

I don`t remember him ever getting in any1`s face.

I could be wrong though.

I have been once or twice before.

[San Antonio Bengal]

I like Kitna and all, but there's no way he could win the last 6 games of the season. If Kitna was the saviour some thinks he is, why did Kitna lose the last two games last season? At the end of the season he should have been at his best, but he wasn't.

Anyway, let Palmer play some more. Let him remain the starter. Let him learn how to scramble. At 4 - 6, what else do we have to lose?

[Bobcat Bengal]

Anyway, let Palmer play some more. Let him remain the starter. Let him learn how to scramble. At 4 - 6, what else do we have to lose?

Yeah, the guy can f**king move, I remember a scramble he had at the Jets game.

Quit standing their when s**t's collapsing and get a move on.

[oldschooler]

Palmer isn`t a Rookie, but this is his 1st year ever starting

a game. Being out of game action for so long and then having to

deal with the game being faster than it ever was in college, Might

be a little overwelming at times for him.

Peyton Manning who went straight from college to starting in the NFL

had a 71.2 QB rating Michael Vick`s 1st year that he played his QB

rating was 62.7, Steve McNair`s was 81.2 his 1st year he started

...but when he was the starter for a season is was 70.4, Drew

Brees QB rating was 76.9 his 1st year and 67.5 last year

but it is 105.6 this year.

Palmer has a 67.2 QB rating with 6 games to go.

Palmer is playing like a Rookie at times.

But most rookies STARTERS DO !

Ben Roethlisberger is an exception. He is on a team that has great

special teams, the #1 Defense in the NFL and the #1 rushing offense

in the NFL that averages 161 yards a game !!!!

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...ar?sort_col_1=7

But yet the Steelers have the 25th ranked PASSING OFFENSE ?

Yet again the Bengals have the 21st Passing Offense the 25th ranked Rushing

Offense and the 16th ranked Defense.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...ar?sort_col_1=8

Plus Palmer is 14th in the NFL in passing yards. And that is with

1 TRUE WEAPON TO GO TO !!!!!!

Is Palmer great RIGHT NOW ? NO.

Is he showing just as much if not more potential

to be great as some really good QB`s DID that are in the NFL NOW ?

YES.

Give him some weapons and a dominating Defense and

watch him out perform Ben Roethlisberger !

Until then watch him grow and become a star !

[BengalByTheBay]

Yeah, he needs to handle pressure better. But, I don't think being quiet has anything to do with how much you want to win and how competetive you are.

No your right being quite doesn't but how many competitive quite guys do you know? I don't know many which makes me think he doesn't care or doesn't have the guts to get in someones face. I hope that this quietness is just because he is basically still a rookie and doesn't feel comfortable about getting in guys faces who don't block. QBs need to be field generals. Palmer needs to get in the face of some of the line and let them know about doing their job. I'm not saying be a jerk but show some backbone. Let people know your not afraid.

Here's part of the point -- he's starting for the first time in his NFL career. Part of that process is getting over being the new guy who can't chew out the vets. In other words, he has to be on the field and play to earn the right to be able to do what you want him to do. John Elway, Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman weren't out there screaming at their teammates when they were rooks, they were just trying not to F-up themselves. This is all a necessary part of the process.

And BTW -- can we just start up an automatic thread after each loss that Kitna should start the next week. Where is this bs after the wins? It's like clockwork after every loss, though and it makes less sense the later in the season it is. Finally, am I the only one that remembers some really quality pix for TD off of Kitna?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

As a life long Bengals fan I am so TIRED of giving up on 1st round QB's after a half season or a season's time.

Palmer's going to be a great QB - he would flourish in other systems right now and if the mental mistakes continue in critical junctures then I almost have to blame the damn coaches for not disciplining him properly and surrounding him with the tools he needs to get it done...beyond blaming him for simply trying to do too much and being inexperienced at the pro level.

He's 25 years old, spent 5 years in college with a different offense every year - he needs to be in Brat's system here for 2-3 years straight and know it and the AFC North defenses inside and out.

I hate waiting and watching Palmer at times is utterly painful as hell - but - I got the same pain in my stomach last year watching Kitna outside of his nice run and it's been that way every year Kitna was the starter here also beforehand.

Time to suck it up, appreciate the impressive things Palmer does (and he does show plenty of flashes of greatness) and hope the defensive and the 0-line give them a chance to win...because Palmer isn't going to win it for them this year every other week.

He will be fine and people should've known things like this would happen this year, the team around him is just not good enough to make him look good like they do in Pitt with Rothlickcheeseburger.

[williamnminor]

Storyline of the NFL Season: KITNA REPLACES PALMER AS BENGALS RIDE SIX GAME WINNING STREAK INTO POSTSEASON FOR FIRST TIME SINCE 1990

Yes, this is a good idea. In my opinion someone has to light a fire under Palmer and this would do it. The offense needs a boost and I don't see Priest Holmes or Terrell Owens in a Bengals uniform.

Put in Kitna, Palmer sucks right now.

Marvin said from day one, I will not let a quarterback LOSE a game for us, well he gave up nine points on his own last week, I say he sure as hell l0ost it.

[oldschooler]

Storyline of the NFL Season: KITNA REPLACES PALMER AS BENGALS RIDE SIX GAME WINNING STREAK INTO POSTSEASON FOR FIRST TIME SINCE 1990

Yes, this is a good idea. In my opinion someone has to light a fire under Palmer and this would do it. The offense needs a boost and I don't see Priest Holmes or Terrell Owens in a Bengals uniform.

Put in Kitna, Palmer sucks right now.

Marvin said from day one, I will not let a quarterback LOSE a game for us, well he gave up nine points on his own last week, I say he sure as hell l0ost it.

You`re comparing Kitna to T.O and Preist Holmes ???!!!

But yeah I see what you mean now.

Now that I think about it Kitna did have a career

year last year and he NEVER made any bone-head

plays like throwing INT`s for TD`s or plays that killed us.

Oh wait ...do the Cardinals, Raiders and Browns games count ?

If so... disreguard what I said.

I wouldn`t want to sound stupid or anything.

*sarcasm off*

switch broke

[williamnminor]

I only mentioned TO and Priest to show that we don't have any other weapons that are going to turn around our offense this season. The only spark that might be left would be the insertion of Kitna.

Also, I am not going to sit here and lie to you that Kitna plays mistake free football or was even worth a damn until week 5 or 6 last season, but if we want to win for this season and make something happen, he should play quarterback.

Palmer isn't growing up the way anyone would have hoped. The errors he committed versus Steelers are ones that anybody on any level shouldn't be making.

[skyline]

Palmer isn't growing up the way anyone would have hoped. The errors he committed versus Steelers are ones that anybody on any level shouldn't be making.

Were you REALLY able to type that with a straight face?

[oldschooler]

I only mentioned TO and Priest to show that we don't have any other weapons that are going to turn around our offense this season. The only spark that might be left would be the insertion of Kitna.

Also, I am not going to sit here and lie to you that Kitna plays mistake free football or was even worth a damn until week 5 or 6 last season, but if we want to win for this season and make something happen, he should play quarterback.

Palmer isn't growing up the way anyone would have hoped. The errors he committed versus Steelers are ones that anybody on any level shouldn't be making.

Do you even watch footnall ?

I mean seriously ?

Brett Favre threw into triple coverage

a few times against the Texans Sunday Night.

He was intercepted 2 times !

And he is a Super Bowl winning MVP QB.

I think sometimes they have to much faith in their

arm and skills.

Favre had a 85.3 QB rating his 1st year.

But he had a 72.2 rating his 1st FULL season.

And Palmer has a 67.2 with 6 games to go.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1028

Kitna has proven that he is an average QB

and a very good BACK UP.

He even said that Palmer makes throws that he

can only dream about.

Palmer is fine. Like I said in an earlier post.

Just sit back and watch him grown ....he is going to be a Star !

[Kirkendall]

Everyone sure does have historical numbers on other players on how well Carson is going to play. Hopefully he turns out to be all that's advertised, but I have a question for you: How do you know he's going to be "great" or even "good"?

I love the numbers game, and stats are great. But what has he done; audibling, checking down, reading blitz, reading coverages -- actual in-game stuff -- that makes anyone KNOW he'll be good? A lot of prediction with numbers, but nothing substantive, doesn't say one thing about predicting Palmer's future.

There is only one thing I compare Carson to anyone in the league. It's not stats, yardage, td's or even INTs. Rather how well is he adapting to the game speed, able to adjust to the game. There are times he looks lost on the field, doesn't seem to know where everyone is at, and lacks pocket pressence formerly given respect for.

Just so people don't act like I'm doing their girlfriends and start crying about experience or confidence, blah blah blah, I think Palmer should stay in... but I think for the simple fact he needs to develop character and get some kind of team chemistry or unity; if they do, it's a funny way of showing it.

[San Antonio Bengal]

And you have to remember that Kitna led us to an 8 - 8 season... after he led us to an 8 - 6 season. And this coming Sunday, Palmer has a chance to do what Kitna wasn't able to do last year -- defeat the Browns in Cincinnati. Let's take a look at what Kitna was able to do in the final game last year:

23/35 175 yds 0 TD 1 INT

Very impressive Kitna numbers there.

[Rudy299]

One thing everyone seems to be missing about the QB's mentioned above, (Vick, MCNair, Manning.). They were not yanked out. The Bengals are NOT going to make the playoffs this year. The O is horrible, but I attribute some of that to the horrible play calling that has taken place the last few weeks. The running game sucks. Not sure if its Rudi, the line, or both. Let Palmer play and we can have this discussion next year this time if the results are the same.

Rudy

P.S. Yes I am aware Elway was benched his 1st year. But I'm sure we agree there was only one JOHN!!!

[KYBENGALFAN]

WIN OR LOSE THIS WEEKEND VS. THE BROWNS WITH PALMER AT THE HELM, I SAY.. OK,, LET'S START KITNA ON THE ROAD VS. THE RAVENS AND THE PATRIOTS.. HE'LL BE EATEN ALIVE !!!! No more Kitna talk.. The only way Marvin Lewis will insert Kitna in a game will be if Palmer gets hurt. That's it... Marvin sees the future of the Bengals with Palmer in charge. He is the real deal. He won't be a Pro Bowl QB for three or four full seasons, so get used to the mistakes. He'll make more mistakes next season and the season after that. WHO DEY !!

[JPW]

Kitna huh ?

Maybe you should take a look at what Kitna did last year, in the month of December after the OL got banged up.

For starters the team went 1-3 in those four games.

Take away the SF game which was a weak team and this is what Kitna did:

0 Win - 3 Loss

2 TDs

6 INTs

12 Sacks

3 Fumbles

In fact Kitna had 3 Fumbles in One game and NINE for the season.

But more than all of that, go back and take a LOOK at those Games....

Kitna was Rattled, Confused, Frustrated, Bewildered and Looked More like a Rookie than I have Ever see Palmer look.

Kitna my A$$....

[semiotter]

OMG would you guys rather have the BENGALS now that have a chance to win a game everytime, or the BENGALS a few years ago that didnt have a chance anytime to win. This not a overnight fix, we are getting better. And Carson will be a big part of it, so hang in there ( I know its been along time) BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT!!!!!!! :player: :player:

[kevnz]

OMG would you guys rather have the BENGALS now that have a chance to win a game everytime, or the BENGALS a few years ago that didnt have a chance anytime to win. This not a overnight fix, we are getting better. And Carson will be a big part of it, so hang in there ( I know its been along time) BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT!!!!!!! :player: :player:

Don't waste your time semi, some of us hear have been saying it all season. Some idiots just don't get football. They think everything revolves around the QB, that one person can come in and be a savior. Or that every problem on the team is because of the QB. Then there are some people that just like to bitch about everything anyway...