Kirkendall Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 From Cincy Enquirer:Review of game film today reinforced what Marvin Lewis saw from the sidelines Sunday, the Bengals coach said. “We do some things correctly but not consistently enough,” Lewis said at his news conference this afternoon, a day after the Browns defeated the Bengals 34-17 at Cleveland. Lewis said the team did a poor job of converting third downs (1 of 13, eight percent) and also dropped too many passes (nine unofficially). In terms of injuries, wide receiver Peter Warrick (shin) and cornerback Rashad Bauman (Achilles) are doubtful for the Monday night game against Denver but have chances to be upgraded later in the week, Lewis said. Safety Rogers Beckett (concussion) will be out, and linebacker Marcus Wilkins (stinger) is questionable. From Bengals.comBengals head coach Marvin Lewis became more involved in making the defensive play calls during Sunday’s 34-17 loss in Cleveland, and he thought it proved a point to a team and public wondering about the state of a unit that has fallen to 26th in the league despite his background as one of he NFL’s most successful defensive coordinators ever. “I took the question and doubt out of it for them yesterday,” Lewis said in his Monday news conference. “It’s not the calls, it’s not the paper. It’s how you do it. I took the doubt out of everybody’s mind. It’s not what you call when, it’s how you go about executing.” Execution remains the big problem after the Bengals allowed a season-high 449 yards, but Lewis said he and defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier plan to discuss Lewis’ role. Lewis also on Monday continued to support quarterback Carson Palmer even though his 5.38 yards per attempt is one of the two lowest in the NFL. Our lack of production is not coming from the quarterback position,” Lewis said. “Our lack of production comes from us not catching the football all the time, from not running the football successfully all the time or consistently. There are things every quarterback, like the way it was with Jon (Kitna) in here last year and they were complaining Jon was not getting it done for us, there are things we would like to do better, but now that’s not why we’re falling out at times.” Lewis also left wide receiver Peter Warrick (shin) in the doubtful category for next Monday night’s game against the Broncos, but said he would have a chance to be upgraded during the week. Warrick has been saying he'll be back for the Broncos and he remained hopeful Monday.One thing that stuck out at me is Lewis took over defensive play-calling against the Browns and it was arguably the worst performance this season. My question is why is he doing this to 'prove a point'? My question is why is he justifying mistakes and not saying as it is? Diplomacy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kybengalsfan Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 When none of your coordinators seem to be getting the job done, suppose the head man has to micro-manage a little. I don't blame him! We have a lot of discussion about the play calling of Bratkowski, but I believe Frazier is totally incompetent; he should go, but I dont' believe Marvin wants to ruin a friendship. Bottom line: we keep losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Stripes Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 the defense looked alot better in the second half but they still sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 they looked good overall if u take out all the big plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 they looked good overall if u take out all the big plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatness Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 But you can't ignore the big plays.........thats like saying every other play they stopped them.....it makes no sense......I really think you have a team that is just mentally out of whack....you have young players trying to do to much and playing out of control....Older players not making plays.......and just poor fundamentals all around........this is not the team that Marvin planned on fielding primarily due to injury.....They need two more weeks of camp......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboy Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 ... --- ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 One thing that stuck out at me is Lewis took over defensive play-calling against the Browns and it was arguably the worst performance this season. My question is why is he doing this to 'prove a point'? My question is why is he justifying mistakes and not saying as it is? Diplomacy? I didn't get the same thing out of it as you.I think he's trying to show the players that, look...I took over the play-calling, and you still blew it. It's not what we're calling that is hurting us. It doesn't matter who is calling the plays...if you don't perform, we can call the right play every time and it won't make a difference.He's not trying to defend their poor performance...he's saying, you guys are screwing up, and you can't lay the blame on anyone but yourselves.While some people may be starting to doubt Marvin, you can't deny that the man knows how to call a defensive football game. My guess is that players in the locker room were starting to question Fraziers calls, and so Marvin did this to show that Frazier's calls aren't the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 There were some veiled comments by ML after last season about having more time in '04 to devote towards getting more involved in the defensive preparation. I think that Marvin had some misgivings about LF's ability as the DC last year.I guess Marvin figures he better grab the wheel before we hit the iceburg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I believe Frazier is totally incompetent; he should go I love it when the grasping of the obvious starts taking hold among the fans. Let this wave continue to roll!!I guess Marvin figures he better grab the wheel before we hit the iceburg.Too late bro. Bengaldom is awash in icecubes. We may as well all scoop some up and pour our favorite liquor over it. We're ALL going to need a stiff drink before this season is through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I believe Frazier is totally incompetent; he should goI love it when the grasping of the obvious starts taking hold among the fans. Let this wave continue to roll!! Give me a break. It takes a season to get GOOD players ready to play good defense together. We have totally changed the defensive scheme, the roster, and we really don't know what the young kids on defense can do yet. When you lose such a large number of players on your defense to IR, and you start rookies, you aren't going to do well.Lewis and Frazier are BUILDING a defense. If we switch defensive coordinators now, we go back to square one and continue to lose. The key now is to keep your coaches, continue to rebuild the roster by cutting the fat and inserting meat, until you have a product you can be proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Lewis and Frazier are BUILDING a defense. If we switch defensive coordinators now, we go back to square one and continue to lose. The key now is to keep your coaches, continue to rebuild the roster by cutting the fat and inserting meat, until you have a product you can be proud of. I support this, but when you are building a house, you see results of IMPROVEMENT; such as walls, piping, electrical, framing, roof (not in that order though). Personally, I'm not suggesting a top five defense, just one that allows the offense to score enough points -- which is questionable in itself right now too. We have taken a big step backwards this year.In 2003: Average rush yards per game - 138.6 ypg (24th in the league)In 2004: Average rush yards per game - 160.4 ypg (last in the league) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 It takes a season to get GOOD players ready to play good defense together. Please point out the "good" ones. I'm having problems identifying them from the "not good" ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatness Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Some would argue that Kim Herring, Deltha Oneal, and players like Madieu, Kaleb, and Landon along with Smith and Simmons are the foundation of the future defense.....Personally I would be surprised if half the guys mentioned above are still on this defense in two years......Marvin has had two drafts..and two offseasons to attract quality free agents....and the people he has put on the field just are not panning out for whatever reason....we can't start over with new coordinators, so somehow, someway these players need to step up and get the job done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 The crux of the matter is that we had three glaring needs going into the offseason: a big-arsed run-stuffing 2-gap DT (or two!), a shutdown corner, and a true middle linebacker.We signed nothin' on the d-line. O'Neal hasn't been that bad, but he hasn't been a shut down guy (witness Sunday's 99-yard giveaway). And whether or not one thinks Nate Webster was the right call at MLB, the bottom line is that he's gone for the year and we're starting rookies in his place.So, on filling the three crucial needs we needed to fill to have any hope of improving the D...we went 0 and 3.At this point, I'm leaning toward Willy's suggestion elsewhere, that we start giving the young'uns more playing time. If Miller or Ratliff or Askew does have any potential, now is the time to find out, so we prioritize how we apprach these same three needs come next January... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatness Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 a big-arsed run-stuffing 2-gap DT (or two!)I read somewhere that the plan was to have smaller athletic DTs as opposed to the run stuffing space eater.....I think that was in a LFrasier newsconference or something.....I'll see if I can find it...Either way....if this is the plan....I think its a bad one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatness Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 The actual quote was from LF on the 10/7/04 interview with Hobson...Hobson asked....."You and Marvin are still committed to having a more athletic front four??" LF..."yes that is true...I beleive our D Line stature is good enough to be successful.....we need to improve some things technique wise...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 O'Neal hasn't been that bad, but he hasn't been a shut down guy (witness Sunday's 99-yard giveaway).I think Deltha was expecting some deep help from the safety, who had bit hard on a receivers flat pattern. I think the defense expected a run and got burned to a crisp by a pass play. We can play decent defense at times, but getting burned by the big play continues to haunt this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I think Deltha was expecting some deep help from the safety, who had bit hard on a receivers flat pattern. I think the defense expected a run and got burned to a crisp by a pass play.There was only 1 S in on the play; marvin himself had called the 4-4 formation on that play, according to what's up on bengals.com, in order to stuff an expected run. O'Neal was on an island and had to stay with his guy...and didn't. That's exactly the kind of blown execution that Marvin is referencing in his comments. Even if they were expecting run, O'Neal still had to cover his man.Re phatness' quote from Frazier, I'm not surprised. I mean, whether it's the truth or not, what else can he say? "Yeah, we would much rather have gotten a big run-stuffer but we didn't so we're just going to have to put the same guys who stunk last year out there and hope."? They can say what they want, but the pursuit of Sapp and Gardener clearly shows that Frazier and Marvin weren't happy about their DT situation.And at this point, I think most of out defensive linemen are sitting in spring-loaded ejection chairs. The only guys I see back in '05 are Clemons (because they just gave him an extension for no good reason), Powell (I think he has naked pics of Marvin with barnyard animals or something) and Askew. Williams was done last year, Justin Smith, sadly, is just not getting any better (and I've been one of his biggest defenders), Thornton's a fan fav, and I think he'd be fine next to a big fatty on the line...but that doesn't seem to be forthcoming. Langston Moore? At this point, who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatness Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Justin Smith = Jason Buck................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 2003 ZERO defensive players on the IR list.2004 to date SEVEN defensive players on the IR list.Who are the guys that are the building blocks of our defense?Nate Webster - learning a new system and BAM just as he gets it, he's injured and done for the year.Caleb Miller - The rookie might not be looking all that great right now, but he has a lot of potential.Madieu Williams - I shouldn't have to say a thing considering he is in the running for rookie of the year on the defensive side after picking up the missed tackles by the linebackers and defensive line.Mathias Askew - Huge Upside, no play this season due to a knee injury.Khalid Abdullah - Coaching staff was very stunned when we lost him.Keiwan Ratliff - Potential to be a shut down corner, and like all rookie corners, needs some time to get used to the NFL.Rogers Beckett - Great season last year, injuries screwed him this year.Nate Herring - Good play despite nagging injury.Kevin Kaesvaharn - Not a starter, but a backup guy who finds a way to be around the ball in nickle and dime coverages. Perhaps a bit out of his league in a standard package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincy9275 Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 who would you have making the calls on d marivn or frazier . marvin any day. it took marvin 4 years to bulid the ravens d. and it looks like it going to take quite a few years to get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 2003 ZERO defensive players on the IR list.2004 to date SEVEN defensive players on the IR list.Who are the guys that are the building blocks of our defense? You're absolutely right, injuries have just murdered us this year. (And don't forget to add Dennis Weathersby to your list -- or Bauman, who looked good in his debut and has been banged up ever since.) It's a big part of the reason we haven't filled those needs I mentioned, with the glaring exception of DT (and no, Askew wasn't going to do that this year even had he been healthy). But I'm afraid you won't find too many people around here willing to look at things long-term... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatness Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Don't start with the P-word (potential).....we've been hearing that for 12 years....List of those with potential.....Dan WilkensonAkili SmithDavid KlinglerKijana CarterCanute KurtisDanny FarmerTravis DorschSean BrewerMarco BattagliaRon DugansArtrell HawkinsRiall JohnsonCharles FisherReinard WilsonCraig YeastNeed I go on about potential.....and mind you thats only the through 2000....Bottom line.....play happens on the field...everything else is just speculation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 With even one true, monster sized, double team getting defensive lineman, I think all of our guys would fair better. Without it, our line is just too small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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