Fire Bill Parcells?

[Barbarian]

Barbarian...you sound like a miserable bitch.

Fisrt of all, the Dallas-Bengals comparison is not perfect but show the parrallels between two team that made big turnarounds from the previous season under circumstances that could be considered similar. You are quite quick to rip Lewis

Your declaration,"Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches" is an invalid statement.

First you do not specify what qualifies as "Great" for a coordinator or for a Head Coach. You leave that for us to assume that they went on to have either a winning record, make the playoffs, or go to the Super Bowl. Two of the below coaches took their teams and I do not consider them "Great Head Coaches or Great Coordinators". What is your criteria here?

Let's examine this a bit.

Here are the Head Coaches of the last several Super Bowls

Bill Belichick - John Fox 

Jon Gruden - Bill Callahan

Bill Belichick - Mike Martz

Brian Billick - Jim Fassell

Now, take a close look and find the one who was never a Coordinator....

There isn't one, asshat, they all have been. I really do not consider Callahan or Fassell to be "Great Coaches" due to the fact that could not hold their teams together and get canned but they were pretty damn good, good enough to take teams to the Super Bowl.

Now, I take issue with your list:

Mike Martz is considered a "Great Coach" and with a 33-19 W/L thats not too shabby. You may not like him or his style but, WTF, I consider that record and what he has done in STL to be great  coaching. Give me a list of teams you do not want to play if you need a win and I bet STL is in the Top 5.

Dave Campo - was never even a great coordinator. Ray Rhodes would have made sense here but Campo was a 5'7" dork who couldn't coach his way out of a tupperware party. One of Jerry Jones's "Yes" men.

Norv Turner - uh...what? He coordinated his way out of every job he had. He is neither. In Dallas he had the personnel. Every other job else was based on those glory days.

Dick LeBlow - His one Head Coaching chance came with the Bengals...I hardly hold that against him. Give him the Panthers and see where he could have taken them. The man is simply one of the best def. coaches in League history. His style does not always work in a young team but the man is proven.

Gunther Cunningham (already his defense is showing major improvement) - I see your sarcasm here and agree. This one makes sense.

Barbarian, give us a fully formed theory and back it up if you are going to toss it around as fact. Speaking of facts, as supported by reading your posts, I think you are like a whiny bitch who complains about everything.

Damn, dude, cheer up.

Big Dick,

Jesus, where do I start with that s**t??? Ok, I'll start here:

Now, take a close look and find the one who was never a Coordinator....

There isn't one, asshat, they all have been.

Where in the hell did I say ANYTHING about any head coach not being a coordinator first??? Look at all my posts in this thread--I did not say anything about this. I even said this in another one of my posts:

AND ALL HEAD COACHES got their starts somewhere. You work your way up the ladder--DUH!!!! Almost all coaches were a coordinator at one time or another.

Jesus dude, now you're not even reading!!! You even took all that out of context. So, who's the "little bitch"???

Your declaration,"Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches" is an invalid statement.

First you do not specify what qualifies as "Great" for a coordinator or for a Head Coach. You leave that for us to assume that they went on to have either a winning record, make the playoffs, or go to the Super Bowl. Two of the below coaches took their teams and I do not consider them "Great Head Coaches or Great Coordinators". What is your criteria here?

Ok. You're right. I never specified what I considered "A great head coach". I didn't think that I had to specify since I thought it was general information of what a "Great Coach" is.

However, since you asked--to me a Great Coach is someone that continually wins year after year. In the NFL--it could be someone that has won more than One Super Bowl. It could be a coach that goes back to the playoffs year after year.

There are a couple of Great Coaches in the NFL Right now:

1. Of course Parcells.

2. Bill Bellicheck

3. Dennis Green (yes, you heard me--he took the Vikings to the playoffs 8 out of 9 years)

4. Andy Reid (He's on the cusp of greatness--especially if he gets that Super Bowl Ring this year)

Ok--now to this:

I really do not consider Callahan or Fassell to be "Great Coaches" due to the fact that could not hold their teams together and get canned but they were pretty damn good, good enough to take teams to the Super Bowl.

I agree. In fact, these coaches INHERITED their respective teams from someone else. So they don't count. Their teams were already PREPARED to go to the Super Bowl when their predecessors left to coach somewhere else. Callahan may be the dumbest coach to ever coach in a Super Bowl since he never changed the playbook when Jon Gruden left.

Warren Sapp was even quoted as saying:

We knew what they were running EVERY PLAY!!!

Yeah, Warren. That would happen when the opposing coach is the ex-head coach of the team he's playing against--and they didn't change the playbook since he left!!!

So what else do you need an explanation on, Free Willy???

Additionally:

Mike Martz is considered a "Great Coach" and with a 33-19 W/L that’s not too shabby.

TO WHOM IS MIKE "DRUNKOWSKI JR." MARTZ CONSIDERED A GREAT COACH??? He's a f**king idiot!!! He lost a game last year in OT because he tried to kick a 52-yarder instead of punting it deep. Someone needs to explain the OT Period to Martz who obviously doesn't know it's about Sudden Death--not Collegiate Rules!!! He's blown all sorts of game like this!!! And worse, he can't beat his nemesis--THE AINTS!!!!!!!

Here's another example of how stupid Martz is--Marshall Faulk had 7 rushes for 70 yards and Mike SMartz stopped running the ball!!!!!!!! He elected to have Marc Bulger to start heaving up passes (which is why Bulger had 22 INTs that year)!!! Stooopid!!!!!

It sounds familar doesn't it??? It's because his brother Bob Drunkowski calls the same kind of game plan.

Martz IS NOT a great coach by any means. He's lucky he's got the offensive weapontry or he'd be Dennis Erickson or Butch Davis.

[BengalBobNC]

Barbarian...you sound like a miserable bitch.

You gotta admit Barb...you do sound that way a lot!

But he doesn't have to spend anymore money this year--since Mike Brown had his "perfect 8-8 season" last year--he's got the SHEEP believing in playoffs again.

Cool! I didn't realize all the draft picks signed for free, Marvin's contract was extended for no additional money, hell I even heard MikeB offered to pay for your labotomy to shut you up at Marvin's request. You obviously declined the operation.

Signed: Putz

No offense!

QUOTE 

You putz.

Ahh come on Barb! You can do better than that can't you?

Yes, I can. Ask Billy--he can tell you. It was a friendly jab. If it wasn't, you would be squeeling home to mommy with your tail between your legs!!!

None taken!

Billy might feel differently however!

[BengalNation1281]

1. I like the term "asshat." I haven't heard that one before.

2. I understand that Palmer is not the entire problem, and that a change might not do any good, but I would at least like to see what would happen if a change was made.

3. Saying that Kitna had a career year and still couldn't get the Bengals into the playoffs puts all of the pressure and blame for 2003 on Kitna. If you look at his stats from 2002 (16 TDs to 16 INTs) and compare them to 2003 (26 TDs to 15 INTs), and look at the team's record from 2002 (2-14) and compare it to 2003 (8-8), then what you would most likely see is that Kitna and the Bengals as a whole were both getting better at the same time, and that them not making the playoffs is not entirely Kitna's fault.

4. What I find infuriating is that Kitna went out and had a career year and led the Bengals to a 6-game improvement in 2003, and there are so many who are quick to write him off and call him KINTna or whatever other clever names are locked in their vault. Why not give the guy some credit? Is it too hard to like both Palmer and Kitna at the same time? Even if Palmer is the future of the Bengals, does that nullify what Kitna has done for the team?

5. David Klingler. Akili Smith. These were also "quarterbacks of the future," who didn't pan out and never stopped looking like confused rookies. Is there some special component that Palmer has that these two didn't? Klingler was a great college QB with a rocket arm, and he imploded in the NFL. What is there that makes everyone think that Palmer couldn't be the same way?

6. I believe that Barbarian spelled my name wrong. it is "bengalnation1281," not "bunglenation." I believe that this was just an unfortunate oversight on his part, so i hope that I have corrected the problem for him, and that he might be able to avoid misspelling it in the future.

7. Just for the record, I love the Bengals. I want them to win, and if Palmer is the guy who can win for them, then I will be 100% behind that. But this year was supposed to be different, and it's the same old story as every other year. I just want to see if a change could do some good. Maqybe Kitna would throw a ton of picks if he was tossing the ball 50 times a game...I don't know. But at this point, it certainly wouldn't hurt to find out.

BN1281

[Barbarian]

2. I understand that Palmer is not the entire problem, and that a change might not do any good, but I would at least like to see what would happen if a change was made.

Ok--here's what would happen:

1. Palmer's ego crumbles by putting kINTna in there. The whole future of the Bungles goes to the wasteside. Your $50 mil investment for the future probably needs to be traded now.

2. kINTna gets one year older than he already is. The future gets put on hold. kINTna takes you to another 8-8 record. You barely miss the playoffs.

3. Now you once again have to look towards drafting another QB for the future since you pulled your last one in favor of a lesser QB.

Dude, kINTna is a solid backup. That's all he ever was and will be. I agree with you that the reason the Bungles went from 2-14 to 8-8 is because of kINTna. However, kINTna's the reason because of those 8 losses last year. Remember the Arizona Game???

Palmer makes better throws. He's a better athlete. He's got more potential. Let him learn this year--and next year, you will see the nice results.

Just get Dumbkowski outta there!

[BengalszoneBilly]

QUOTE 

You putz.

Ahh come on Barb! You can do better than that can't you?

Yes, I can. Ask Billy--he can tell you. It was a friendly jab. If it wasn't, you would be squeeling home to mommy with your tail between your legs!!!

None taken!

Billy might feel differently however!