walzav29 Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I was watching football yesterday and I was wondering why the following teams have leapfrogged the BengalsSteelersLionsChargersJaguarsGiantsFalconsAll of these teams had worst records than Cincy last year and now have better records. That's the problem with "patience" all of us fans were so happy to just be alive at the end of the season that we have given them a free pass. I was watching Cowher yersterday and he looks like he would kill someone if they were 1-3. They have a rookie QB and he is 3-0. The fact that we are supposed to have a defensive genius in his 2nd season and they suck this bad is ridiculous. All of these teams have twice the defensive power in half of the time. Screw patience. The Bengals need to aspire more than to be competitive.That's why they always suck. Low expectations and high excuse levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 So go root for another team...or better yet, go join the front office and turn things around yourself, since you obviously know how to turn things around much more efficiently than Lewis can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kybengalsfan Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I am guilty of sharing your pessimism. I was watching the first half of the game Sunday evening, watching the Redskins swarm tackling Lewis, and I had to wonder why all of these other teams seem to be fired up and are able to penetrate their offensive line. Then I watch other teams and see how much they have improved from last year and it really make me sad that we are now hoping to go 8-8 again this year. If we don't beat the Turds next week, we are in for another agonizing year of mediocrity. I want to be positive, but the team really gives me no reason. The coaches calmly tell us the usual, simplistic stuff like "we need to tackle better," and "we know what's wrong and we are going to FIX it," etc. How long must we wait to having a winning team, not to mention a playoff team? Will Marvin have the guts to fire Frazier like he fires all of the veterans who were not drafted by him? Sure hope I am wrong and the boys can turn it around during the next two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted October 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I wish I would have thought of that retard. I just can't jump from bandwagon to bandwagon. Hell, I wish that I could just like the Patriots. I don't. I can criticize and piss and moan all I want. As long as I buy merchandise, and tickets I have a right to expect to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted October 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 By the way. I was calling skyline a retard, not you KY. That's exactly what I think though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I can criticize and piss and moan all I want. As long as I buy merchandise, and tickets I have a right to expect to win.You can certainly "criticize and piss and moan" all you want, but the fact you buy merchandise and tickets doesn't give you any right to expect anything of the team. That's like claiming that the fact that you bought a television gives you the right to expect quality programming.Call skyline a "retard" all you want, but the bottom line is that his conclusion follows logically from your complaints, while yours doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted October 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Easy Dr. Phil. I'm just saying that other teams have made defensive improvements in a shorter period of time. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Legends Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I was watching football yesterday and I was wondering why the following teams have leapfrogged the BengalsSteelersLionsChargersJaguarsGiantsFalconsThat is what is so great about the NFL. There is so much parity in the league that most teams can retool right away and become contenders again. The Lions have had so many losing seasons that many often wonder why the lose year in and year out and end up with a top 5 draft choice. The Bengals actually didn't do a whole lot to upgrade their defense. They still are having problems stopping the run and their DBs are that good.Also, they are starting Palmer, a rookie in a sense, so that will not bold well. The big difference between he and Ben is that I think Ben has more weapons and is just a bit more calmer in the pocket. One would think that Palmer would of learned a lot sitting back and watching John Kitna but he is progressing slowly and fans have to have patience. It might take a while to get a return on your investment but give him 2-3 years and see where he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 LOL ben is not better than palmer. he has done nothing remarkable. he hasnt faced a great defense yet. talk to me in 3 weeks and we'll see where our records stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TippCityRick Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Listen Steel, I'm a Miami grad so I have a bit of perspective on this. There is no way to compare Ben and Palmer at this point. Ben has benefited greatly from an Oline that protects him and a coordinator that does not abandon the running game even when ahead (see our contest with your team in the third quarter). Ben is being called upon to manage games and not make mistakes. Palmer is being called upon to win games for this franchise and any first year player will struggle in that roll. They simply have too many areas that need work for a good defensive coordinator not to exploit eventually.Both men have aquitted themselves well so far. Palmer's numbers may be a bit skewed right now due to late game picks and a couple of receiver misques, but he has played fine so far. Our D and our coordinator have put him in situations where he had no business being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I can criticize and piss and moan all I want. As long as I buy merchandise, and tickets I have a right to expect to win.You can certainly "criticize and piss and moan" all you want, but the fact you buy merchandise and tickets doesn't give you any right to expect anything of the team. That's like claiming that the fact that you bought a television gives you the right to expect quality programming.Call skyline a "retard" all you want, but the bottom line is that his conclusion follows logically from your complaints, while yours doesn't. Logic? What's logic?Logic has no place in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Easy Dr. Phil. I'm just saying that other teams have made defensive improvements in a shorter period of time. Am I wrong?If you're going to use examples like the Chargers, Steelers and Jags, yes. SD has no defense, they're winning because they've put up more points than anyone except Indy. The Steelers and Jags both had good defenses last year (15 and 18 in points allowed vs. our 28th). Hell, the Steeler defense is arguably worse so far this year, they're around 21 or 22 in points allowed so far. Even the Lions allowed fewer points than we did last year, and now the offensive side of a rebuilding program that began with the drafting of Harrington 3 years ago appears to be coming around.The Giants did play poorly on D last year, but as I noted elsewhere that was almost solely due to multiple injuries in their secondary, and they got killed through the air. They were 18th or so vs. the run, however. Coughlin had a hell of a lot more to work with, all he had to do was get his injured players back.In Atlanta, the Falcons have improved tremedously on D because they dumped that dingbat Wade Phillips and his 3-4, which they never had the personnel to play. They've also benefitted from scheduling. Their four wins have come against teams that are a combined 6-13 (and than falls to 3-11 if you subtract the Rams). By contrast, the Bengals' three losses have come against teams that are now a combined 11-3. So I suspect the Falcons currently look quite a bit better than they really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 In Atlanta, the Falcons have improved tremedously on D because they dumped that dingbat Wade Phillips and his 3-4, which they never had the personnel to play. They've also benefitted from scheduling. Their four wins have come against teams that are a combined 6-13 (and than falls to 3-11 if you subtract the Rams). By contrast, the Bengals' three losses have come against teams that are now a combined 11-3. So I suspect the Falcons currently look quite a bit better than they really are.Absolutely JC. And the current 2004 Bengals have w-a-y more injuries to deal with than the 2003 team did! Injuries on the o-line is not helping Palmer. So there is no comparing Ben and Carson. As for weapons, I think it's even. The o-line dictates what the offense can do. If they are not opening holes for Rudi, we are going to pass more. If they cannot protect Palmer long enough to check down to the 2nd or 3rd receiver then it is going to be a rough outing.Of that list of teams only the Lions come close to experiencing what the Bengals were like from 1991-2002. ALL the other teams have seen the playoffs and some have seen the Super Bowl while the Bengals were in the "dark years". Coach Lewis is not responsible for the way Mike Brown ran the team from 1991-2002...but he is fixing it. I do not follow other teams that closely, but I would dare say all of them had/have way more to work with than Coach Lewis had coming in. Lewis is still building this team. With all the injuries and the toughness of the opposing teams we've faced this year, we have been competitive, even with essentially a rookie QB. For god's sake give the man (Lewis) some time. He hasn't even been here two full years yet!We all want to win, especially with our history of losing, but there is no magic wand. I've said this before and I'll say it again: The biggest difference between the "dark years" Bengals and the Coach Lewis Bengals - We now expect to win, where before we expected to lose. Huge difference. You have to change attitudes before you can change W-L records. A few (only few) different plays happen and we are 3-1, even with the injuries.Not too damn bad if you ask me WHEN you consider everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat Bengal Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 LOL ben is not better than palmer. he has done nothing remarkable. he hasnt faced a great defense yet. talk to me in 3 weeks and we'll see where our records stand. Right now, I'd have to disagree with that one....He's good at avoiding the sack, like in the Browns game where he sheds the defender then launches one down the field....I haven't seen Palmer do ANYTHING like that yet....Ben reminds me of Daunte Culpepper, but not nearly as mobile.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamnminor Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Skyline hes got a good point. My question to you is why are you still giving Lewis the benefit of the doubt. If this love affair doesn't end people like you will keep kissing his ass all the way to a 1-15 season. Honeymoon is over so start acting like it. Obviously those other teams that he mentioned did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Skyline hes got a good point. My question to you is why are you still giving Lewis the benefit of the doubt. If this love affair doesn't end people like you will keep kissing his ass all the way to a 1-15 season. Honeymoon is over so start acting like it. Obviously those other teams that he mentioned did.Oh dear god! Unbelievable! Are you guys the same ones who called Sam Wyche "Wacky Wyche" right up until he took us to the Super Bowl? And then wanted him to be coach for life? Until the 1991 season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Skyline hes got a good point. My question to you is why are you still giving Lewis the benefit of the doubt. If this love affair doesn't end people like you will keep kissing his ass all the way to a 1-15 season. Honeymoon is over so start acting like it. Obviously those other teams that he mentioned did. Well, first of all, no those teams didn't.Second, what "love affair"? Marvin has hardly gone uncriticized by Skyline, as well as many others around these parts. During the offseason, his decision to start Palmer over Kitna was very controversial. Though I agreed with it, many here did not. Virtually all of us were dismayed by the lack of a run-stuffing DT in FA or day 1 of the draft. The board's resident draft expert gave the Bengals a grade of C on their draft, and called it generous. In recent weeks, Marvin has been knocked aroud again over all these issues, blasted for not reining in Bratkowski's pass-happy playcalling, and questioned for not playing the No. 1 draft pick more. Some criticisms I agree with (such as the offensive playcalling) and some I don't (I'm willing to accept Marvin's judgement in the case of when Perry should play). But the bottom line is that there's been no coddling of Marvin Lewis around here.What there has been, at least on my part and that of a few others like Bob, is a refusal to go blathering off half-cocked and call for this, that, and another thing to be changed because a group of very good teams have beaten a badly banged-up squad being led by a second-year rookie QB. The Bengals lead the league -- read that again: lead the league -- in players put on IR at 11. And their injury reports for the first four games have been as long as my arm. Over the last few weeks we have heard calls to 1) fire Marvin, 2) fire Bratkowski, and 3) fire Frazier. Well, shoot, what are we gonna do, make Ken Zampese head coach?How about we let the team get healthy (which it's hopefully doing this week) and let the coaches field the players they wanted to play with the systems they wanted and practiced to run, and then if they still can't win consistently, call for changes? I don't regard that as a "honeymoon" or giving any the benefit of the doubt, I regard it as giving them a chance to show that they can do what they said they could do with the players they said they wanted to do it with. Again, if it still fails, I will be the first one to call for some heads to roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBax Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I was watching football yesterday and I was wondering why the following teams have leapfrogged the BengalsSteelersLionsChargersJaguarsGiantsFalconsAll of these teams had worst records than Cincy last year and now have better records. That's the problem with "patience" all of us fans were so happy to just be alive at the end of the season that we have given them a free pass. I was watching Cowher yersterday and he looks like he would kill someone if they were 1-3. They have a rookie QB and he is 3-0. The fact that we are supposed to have a defensive genius in his 2nd season and they suck this bad is ridiculous. All of these teams have twice the defensive power in half of the time. Screw patience. The Bengals need to aspire more than to be competitive.That's why they always suck. Low expectations and high excuse levels. Couldn't agree more. Wake up people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Couldn't agree more. Wake up people.Your agreeing with this comes as no surprise at all. You people are w-a-y too impatient with a 2nd year Head Coach dealing with more than our fair share of injuries.You cannot compare our situation with those teams anymore than they could with us.I took a quick look back, only as far as the 1997 season. Only San Diego did not have a playoff appearance (which year did they go to the Super Bowl and lost to the 49ers? 1994?) When was the last time we even saw the playoffs? 1990. Yeah...we compare to those teams.2003Steelers 6-10Lions 5-11Chargers 4-12Jaguars 5-11Giants 4-12Falcons 5-11Bengals 8-82002Steelers 10-5-1 *Lions 3-13Chargers 8-8Jaguars 6-10Giants 10-6 *Falcons 9-6-1 *Bengals 2-142001Steelers 13-3 *Lions 2-14Chargers 5-11Jaguars 6-10Giants 7-9Falcons 7-9Bengals 6-102000Steelers 9-7Lions 9-7Chargers 1-15Jaguars 7-9Giants 12-4 *!Falcons 4-12Bengals 4-121999Steelers 6-10Lions 8-8 *Chargers 8-8Jaguars 14-2 *Giants 7-9Falcons 5-11Bengals 4-121998Steelers 7-9Lions 5-11Chargers 5-11Jaguars 10-5 *Giants 8-8Falcons 14-2 *!Bengals 3-131997Steelers 11-5 *Lions 9-7 *Chargers 4-12Jaguars 11-5 *Giants 10-5-1 *Falcons 7-9Bengals 7-9* = Playoff appearance! = Super Bowl appearanceAll teams have faced different situations. But NONE of those teams had Mike Brown as a GM from 1991-2002. Some of the teams "rebounding" this year may still fall flat on their face. Jacksonville? Give me a break, three of their wins came on miracle finishes. San Diego? Brees is finally coming into his own, maybe, it's a young season.It's a young season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Ben has benefited greatly from .....a coordinator that does not abandon the running game even when ahead (see our contest with your team in the third quarter). Ben is being called upon to manage games and not make mistakes. You hit it right on the head. Running the ball until stopped also shortens the game and helps keep your defense off of the field. If you look at a few games at the end of the season last year and some of the other loses, he got pass-happy even when we were down by a touchdown or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 All teams have faced different situations. But NONE of those teams had Mike Brown as a GM from 1991-2002.There's the difference maker right there. The Bungles GM/President/CEO/Wannabe Deity. There ya go.Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 When do the excuses stop?Bottom line is the Steelers have a rookie QB and he's performing better than Palmer with comparable WR's and 0-line.Sure the defense has a lot to do with it - but the point is Marvin has had two off-seasons now to improve it - and they've gotten WORSE!!Bengals fans have the lowest standards in the NFL and Mike Brown takes good advantage of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamnminor Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Noce;ly put Shula. People are in denial. People say that Big Ben has a better line and doesn't have to come from behind like Palmer has to deal with. Well, he doesn't have to come from behind because he is going out there and giving his team leads. Its not too complicated. We are all disappointed and some people try to deny that and say we are impatient. Bulls**t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 When do the excuses stop?Bottom line is the Steelers have a rookie QB and he's performing better than Palmer with comparable WR's and 0-line.Sure the defense has a lot to do with it - but the point is Marvin has had two off-seasons now to improve it - and they've gotten WORSE!!Bengals fans have the lowest standards in the NFL and Mike Brown takes good advantage of it. Two years is not enough time to undo all the damage of the last 10 to 13 ... depending on how you look at it. Having said that, Lewis and co. did not have as good an off season ( draft included ) as last year. This is a team in transition and transition is always tough. Mike is handing the team to Katie and her husband. This is Lewis' first stint as head coach, and most of the players that were here are gone ........ good riddance by the way. Now that's a lot of change all going on at the same time. I'm not giving the coach a pass, but it is understandable that there will be some setbacks along the way, and I'm not ready to jump ship on him or Palmer either one at this point.Also don't quite agree with your assessment of the Squealers in comparison to the Bengals. With the exception of Johnson, they have a better receiving corps, and as banged up as our line is .... that's not even close. Give Palmer as much time as Most other qb's get along with our receivers Healthy and the passing game is going to look a lot different. Also get Bratkowski sober enough to remember the running game, and we've got a potent offense. Defense ..... Hell I don't know .... but I don't feel bad. Evidently Frazier doesn't know either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 When do the excuses stop?Bottom line is the Steelers have a rookie QB and he's performing better than Palmer with comparable WR's and 0-line.I completely disagree. We have starters out on the o-line, Pittsburgh doesn't. I've seen them give Ben all kinds of time. Palmer has not enjoyed that much time as consistently this season. And no way has Palmer had the time that Kitna had last year. I'm not making excuses for anyone...I (and a lot of others) simply see things completely different than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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