Webster Likely Done

[bengalsangel]

Webster will truly be missed by theis team. He brings so much energy to the team and support especially to the young rookies, like Caleb. I was at the baltimore and was in the family waiting area when the guys came out. I talked with Caleb and he was very upset about Nate. So for me to hear you guys talk trash about him it make me sick.

Webster has been the leader on this defense this season, his numbers speak for them self. And, yes Marvin and Rick Hunley have both said that the aggression that Nate plays with reminds them of Ray. Check the Post and Enquirer archives. :player: :player: :player:

[kingwilly]

Nate Webster, while very aggressive and vocal, had terrible games making plays at the Jets and then versus the Ravens. These teams featured two top-level running backs. He was constantly out of position or overpursued, opening up the running lanes for these runners. He also had a tough time coming off blocks, evident by Jamal Lewis going ballisitc on our DB's. He had 6 tackles and 1 assist, with the forced fumble/recovery (blind squirrels also find nuts every now and then). Had he done his job properly, he'd have had about 15 tackles and Lewis would have had about 60 less yards. Look, when the first player to hit Jamal Lewis is Kevin Kaesviharn, it means we have a problem at middle backer. Those were both winnable games, but central to the run-D problem was Nate Webster. Let's not even talk about Miami. Colerain or St. X. could have stopped Miami.

I do not doubt that he will be missed by his teammates. They share a team bond that Marvin Lewis has done a good job of instilling. What will not be missed by the fans is his overguessing which way the play will go then immediately being behind the play chasing another runner past the first down marker as the DB tries to throw his body in front of a runaway truck. On the bright side, without the injury, I think he would have settled down and gotten with the scheme but all we can we do is speculate.

If there are still doubts, let's compare how Nate stacks up to, not Ray Lewis, but Takeo Spikes, the former Bengal. I think there would be few takers for Webster if we had the choice between the two.

[skyline]

Nate Webster, while very aggressive and vocal, had terrible games making plays at the Jets and then versus the Ravens. These teams featured two top-level running backs. He was constantly out of position or overpursued, opening up the running lanes for these runners. He also had a tough time coming off blocks, evident by Jamal Lewis going ballisitc on our DB's. He had 6 tackles and 1 assist, with the forced fumble/recovery (blind squirrels also find nuts every now and then). Had he done his job properly, he'd have had about 15 tackles and Lewis would have had about 60 less yards. Look, when the first player to hit Jamal Lewis is Kevin Kaesviharn, it means we have a problem at middle backer. Those were both winnable games, but central to the run-D problem was Nate Webster. Let's not even talk about Miami. Colerain or St. X. could have stopped Miami.

I do not doubt that he will be missed by his teammates. They share a team bond that Marvin Lewis has done a good job of instilling. What will not be missed by the fans is his overguessing which way the play will go then immediately being behind the play chasing another runner past the first down marker as the DB tries to throw his body in front of a runaway truck. On the bright side, without the injury, I think he would have settled down and gotten with the scheme but all we can we do is speculate.

If there are still doubts, let's compare how Nate stacks up to, not Ray Lewis, but Takeo Spikes, the former Bengal. I think there would be few takers for Webster if we had the choice between the two.

You don't seem to be taking into account that he was playing his first 4 games in a new system. It takes a few games to get your feet wet. I also don't know why you think he had such a bad game against Baltimore. He was leading the team in tackles (7 tackles and 1 assist).

If Kevin is the first person to hit Lewis, it MIGHT mean the middle linebacker messed up, but it doesn't ALWAYS mean that. The middle linebacker isn't expected to make every tackle on every run. Remember, the Baltimore offense had these guys on the field that did a thing called blocking. We could also point out that there were a couple of times where Lewis was hit behind the line and not taken down...I guess that was Webster's fault as well? To pin all of our run defense woes onto one player is ludicrous.

I love how last year, when we were run all over, it was all the D-line's fault. Now, the poor run defense is being pinned on ONE player? Give me a break...

Another point...when did Webster leave the game? Was it his fault that Lewis got the 75 yard run at the end of the game as well?

[BengalszoneBilly]

I doubt we'll see much difference one way or the other with him gone from the defense.

[HoosierCat]

You don't seem to be taking into account that he was playing his first 4 games in a new system. It takes a few games to get your feet wet.

Of course. But by and large Bengal fandom is setting new distance records in the Jumping To Conclusions competition this year. Nate was improving and will be replaced by a rookie. There's no way that isn't a blow. As for him struggling in his first couple games, well, there's no shortage of Justin Smith haters around here. Let me ask them, how indicative of his career were his first few games...?

[kingwilly]

Skyline...which game were you watching? If he had 2, 6, 20 tackles, it really does not matter when Jamal Lewis makes you look like a joke, at home no less.

My point about KK is that a majority of Jamal's runs were RIGHT AT Webster. Could this mean that the BAL scheme exploited weaknesses they saw from the Jets game, where the runs were also between the tackles? Hmmm…I know I would, especially if I had Jamal Lewis. I’d run at Nate every play.

I agree that to pin it all on one player is wrong, that was not my intent. I said "central" to the problem was the MLB play. The D-Line got handled, but when they do, the LB should be there, fight off the block to make the tackle or force the flow back to pursuing defenders. These are the basics that ML keeps talking about.

He was out of position more than not. He gets blocked by getting baited more than not. He gets beat more than not. Now, if the D-line had those tackles in the backfield, which would have been nice, I do not see how that affects Nate. If I recall correctly, he made a few of his tackles off of those situations, where the D-line held Jamal for a sec and Webster got to Jamal. As far as the 75 yrd ripper, Webster was out so clearly it wasn't his fault, never said it was.

Take a look at the whole picture. The Baltimore game aside, he was struggling, as was the rest of the D. I do not really buy the whole, "New Scheme" argument. The guy is a 5 yr pro? How is it that other FA's go to other teams, adjust and make the plays?

Look, Nate Webster is an "OK" MLB. I think he had problems with his "Style" of play, not the scheme. I do not see him as a Ray Lewis, Takeo, Urlacher, Z. Thomas. His play reminds me of Seau but he is not as fast or big.

I’m not trying to be overly negative on purpose. I’m just giving you my perspective relative to how Nate, his performance and his loss effects the team.

GO Bengals!

[Barbarian]

You don't seem to be taking into account that he was playing his first 4 games in a new system.  It takes a few games to get your feet wet.

Of course. But by and large Bengal fandom is setting new distance records in the Jumping To Conclusions competition this year. Nate was improving and will be replaced by a rookie. There's no way that isn't a blow. As for him struggling in his first couple games, well, there's no shortage of Justin Smith haters around here. Let me ask them, how indicative of his career were his first few games...?

Justin made a huge mistake!!! He wasn't coming up with the numbers that he was drafted for--and NOW fans have a big reason to hate his ass.

If you're that rich, then why not think about taking a cab??? $100 is a whole lot of money for guys like you and me--but for Justin, he could lose a "Franklin" or 2 and not take a hit. How about a limo??? How about saving that drinking and partying s**t for the offseason, when your team doesn't need you as bad??? Justin should be watching film of himself--er--maybe that's why he needed to drink so badly???

As for Webster, I agree with Joisey in that having a rook in there for Mr. Loompa is a bad thing. However, the Run Defense isn't going to be any worse (32nd in the league).

As for Webster having all those tackles, he made them 15-20 yards downfield instead of coming up for the big hit.

I don't fault Webster though--it seems like he IS hardcore--I fault (once again) the FRONT f**king OFFICE for not putting enough BEEF in front of Webster for him to be a PT kind of player. Just think if Webster had Washington and Sapp in front of him??? Oakland's Run Defense has improved big time thanks to beef like Washington!!!

And don't tell me that Mike Brown didn't have a shot at guys like Ted Washington and Warren Sapp, because he f**king did!!!!

Unbelievable!!!

[HoosierCat]

Justin made a huge mistake!!! He wasn't coming up with the numbers that he was drafted for--and NOW fans have a big reason to hate his ass.

...

I don't fault Webster though--it seems like he IS hardcore--I fault (once again) the FRONT f**king OFFICE for not putting enough BEEF in front of Webster for him to be a PT kind of player. Just think if Webster had Washington and Sapp in front of him??? Oakland's Run Defense has improved big time thanks to beef like Washington!!!

To your first point, I wasn't making any reference to Smith's recent DUI, but to the fact that he looked like a stud in year one...and has been pedestrian ever since (tho I personally don't label him a bust). His initial performance wasn't indicative of future success. In similar vein, we don't know that Webster's struggled in his first few games mean he won't end up as a solid player. As I said, too much jumping to conclusions going on around here.

To your point about a lack of size up front, well, now we're getting somewhere. Herring alluded to it in a recent bengals.com article talking about the defensive makeup here vs. Baltimore, and pointed out that the major difference was that Balti had a couple of big men -- Siragusa and Adams -- in the middle to clog things up and give the LBs and opportunity to fly to the ball. We don't have that. And it's hard to charge up to make the big hit when the ball carrier is through your line and 7 yards past the line of scrimmage approximately 1.7 seconds after the snap of the ball.

But...we all knew this going in, didn't we? Wasn't the lack of a big DT or two a topic of constant discussion all during the off season? Wasn't it specifically predicted, many times, that Webster would get run over if the line couldn't delay oncoming traffic long enough for him to react? So the bottom line for me is, why all the Webster-bashing? For that matter, why all the Frazier-bashing? If people want to come down on the D the place to look is Marvin. He should have spent more time pursuing a big DT and less chasing after junk like Vincent and Taylor. And failing that, I would have kept Steele over Williams at DT.

[kybengalsfan]

I certainly agree with you about Steele. For the amount of time he played, he seemed to make key plays. I would if someone could get us some stats of his time played and tackles made. I bet it would put Williams to shame.

Hope this DUI will wake up Smith and make him realize how much he needs to stay sober and be an athlete. The drinking can't help his performance.

[Barbarian]

But...we all knew this going in, didn't we? Wasn't the lack of a big DT or two a topic of constant discussion all during the off season? Wasn't it specifically predicted, many times, that Webster would get run over if the line couldn't delay oncoming traffic long enough for him to react? So the bottom line for me is, why all the Webster-bashing? For that matter, why all the Frazier-bashing? If people want to come down on the D the place to look is Marvin. He should have spent more time pursuing a big DT and less chasing after junk like Vincent and Taylor.

Yep. I was one of the only ones (with you and Kirk) saying the same thing--that (to reminense) "the Oompa Loompa is going to get the f**k RUN OVER because of no beef up front".

I definitely remember taking heat for saying this s**t too--from many a member on this board. Now look at those same members that was giving me s**t before spouting up s**t about Webster not being the guy the Bungles signed.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing to that. Sure, Webster was making the tackles, however, he was making the tackles 10-15 yards downfield. And Jamal sure did make him look like s**t right before he went on the IR for good. The only game that Webster really looked good in was the Miami game--WITHOUT THE RASTA-POTHEAD MAN. Just think if Ricky DID play that game???

And not to say "I told you so" but I remember also saying something about "no beef means that Webster will be on the IR before week 6" (paraphrasing myself). I f**king hate it when I'm right.

[HoosierCat]

I definitely remember taking heat for saying this s**t too--from many a member on this board.

I don't remember it being a particularly controversial point, tho I don't doubt you took heat for your posts. You always take heat from your posts; it's your schtick, remember?

Sure, Webster was making the tackles, however, he was making the tackles 10-15 yards downfield.

Well, since the lack of heft upfront makes it unlikely that he will get near the line before the opposing rusher is well past it, I fail to see what you're complaining about. Would you rather he was missing tackles 10-15 yards downfield? Frankly, I don't think that Ray Lewis could be expected to do much better than Nate did under the circumstances.

And not to say "I told you so" but I remember also saying something about "no beef means that Webster will be on the IR before week 6" (paraphrasing myself). I f**king hate it when I'm right.

Believe me, I know the feeling when it comes to this team. And the accuracy of your prediction does not bode well for Caleb Miller...