Why the Hell Would Bengal D be worse?

[walzav29]

How are we worse than last year?Kim Herring is an upgrade. Detha is a ?, but he's still better than Artrell. Nate Webster is a true ML, and Simmons and Hardy get to go back to their normal spots, and this will be the 2nd year of the new defense, along with youth and speed of the younger guys. We will be better. The spookiest thing is how good all of the qb's looked against us in the pre-season, but if Carson can't get any credit for his pre-season action because of "vanilla" looks then our defense can't get crap either.

[HoosierCat]

The D won't be worse...and really I haven't seen too many people say they think it will. The trouble is just that it might not be much better. They've made some incremental improvements, but when you're ranked 28th in the league, will improvement by inches cut it? Doesn't seem likely, eh? But Marvin & Co. continue to insist that it's the scheme, not the players, and things will be much better this year thanks to the experience players gained last year. Well...maybe...but the Bengals' pursuit of Vincent and trade for O'Neal, and their desperate quest for a decent DT, any decent DT, argue otherwise.

[Kirkendall]

Depth-wise, the defense could be in trouble with the obvious exception of middle linebacker. And the secondary looked mostly helpless all pre-season against first team offenses with the exception of the Pats game.

That's the only thing I can think of why someone would think our D is going to be worse; but that's just me looking at the other side of the coin.

Personally, I think it's going to remain the same as last year. I've been very non-impressed with Webster and the D-line is showing a lack of pass rush and consistent rush stuffing and as I stated before, they haven't stopped a genuine passing attack -- thank goodness the pass isn't overly used in the AFC North. Anyway, that's my impressions... then again; I'm basing that off the pre-season performance on a few combined halves instead of regular season games played.

[bengals4ever]

That was why I was begging to see them trade down big time to try to get Sean Taylor. That guy is going to be a killer this year. He will be the D rookie of the year by far. We could have given our #1 and Dillon to someone and traded down. Possibly even a 2 pick.

Oh well. That is water under the bridge.

[membengal]

How are we worse than last year?Kim Herring is an upgrade. Detha is a ?, but he's still better than Artrell. Nate Webster is a true ML, and Simmons and Hardy get to go back to their normal spots, and this will be the 2nd year of the new defense, along with youth and speed of the younger guys. We will be better. The spookiest thing is how good all of the qb's looked against us in the pre-season, but if Carson can't get any credit for his pre-season action because of "vanilla" looks then our defense can't get crap either.

This looks spot on to me. I think they are better and everyone crying the sky-is-falling are putting WAY too much emphasis on pre-season games where the Bengals trotted out only the most basic of vanilla defenses.

Now, to quantify better, I am not talking top 10. But I think an improvement to around 20th is in the offing, and, if they do that, and if offense can be top 10, they can threaten for the playoffs.

I completely disagree with the above comment on depth (Kirkindall). Madieau Williams and K. Ratliss are HUGE upgrades at back-up CB. The back-up safety is Kaesveharn, solid. Landon Johnson joins Miller in giving us some good young LB depth (I DO NOT miss Adrian Ross) and the line has a ton of bodies to work with.

They are better. How much better is the question.

And the point about cutting down Carson's pre-season while worrying about the defenses pre-season is spot on also.

Peace.

[Kirkendall]

I completely disagree with the above comment on depth. Madieau Williams and K. Ratliss are HUGE upgrades at back-up CB. The back-up safety is Kaesveharn, solid. Landon Johnson joins Miller in giving us some good young LB depth (I DO NOT miss Adrian Ross) and the line has a ton of bodies to work with.

I can see Williams and Ratliff, but will have rookie bumps which suggests the original question, if they both are put in due to injuries, do you think this team will be better than last years? Also, do you really believe if Justin Smith and/or Thornton go down for the season, that the depth of the defensive line won't miss a beat? I know it's over-dramatic, but it's things to consider when discussing a matter such as this..

[HoosierCat]

I can see Williams and Ratliff, but will have rookie bumps which suggests the original question, if they both are put in due to injuries, do you think this team will be better than last years? Also, do you really believe if Justin Smith and/or Thornton go down for the season, that the depth of the defensive line won't miss a beat? I know it's over-dramatic, but it's things to consider when discussing a matter such as this..

[insert shrugging shoulders here] ehhh...I dunno. Guys like Williams and Ratliff would have rookie bumps, sure, but it doesn't look like they'd be replacing world-beaters. Tory james is running down and O'Neal has yet to prove he's anywhere near back to form. In similar vein, if Thornton went down and they, say, signed Steele back in his place or brought Scott up from the PS, it isn't like we're losing a 2-gapper or a big sack generator. Replacing our average DTs is hardly a challenge. Justin Smith might be the only one hard to replace because he's been so tough against the run.

I think we actually have pretty good depth. The real problem is, we just don't appear to have anything special in the way of starters...

[skyline]

Depth-wise, the defense could be in trouble with the obvious exception of middle linebacker. And the secondary looked mostly helpless all pre-season against first team offenses with the exception of the Pats game.

That's the only thing I can think of why someone would think our D is going to be worse; but that's just me looking at the other side of the coin.

Personally, I think it's going to remain the same as last year. I've been very non-impressed with Webster and the D-line is showing a lack of pass rush and consistent rush stuffing and as I stated before, they haven't stopped a genuine passing attack -- thank goodness the pass isn't overly used in the AFC North. Anyway, that's my impressions... then again; I'm basing that off the pre-season performance on a few combined halves instead of regular season games played.

I'll have to stop and ask how you think the D-Line has been inconsistent this preseason stopping the run? They've looked very strong in that area to me.

[bengals4ever]

How are we worse than last year?Kim Herring is an upgrade. Detha is a ?, but he's still better than Artrell. Nate Webster is a true ML, and Simmons and Hardy get to go back to their normal spots, and this will be the 2nd year of the new defense, along with youth and speed of the younger guys. We will be better. The spookiest thing is how good all of the qb's looked against us in the pre-season, but if Carson can't get any credit for his pre-season action because of "vanilla" looks then our defense can't get crap either.

This looks spot on to me. I think they are better and everyone crying the sky-is-falling are putting WAY too much emphasis on pre-season games where the Bengals trotted out only the most basic of vanilla defenses.

Now, to quantify better, I am not talking top 10. But I think an improvement to around 20th is in the offing, and, if they do that, and if offense can be top 10, they can threaten for the playoffs.

I completely disagree with the above comment on depth (Kirkindall). Madieau Williams and K. Ratliss are HUGE upgrades at back-up CB. The back-up safety is Kaesveharn, solid. Landon Johnson joins Miller in giving us some good young LB depth (I DO NOT miss Adrian Ross) and the line has a ton of bodies to work with.

They are better. How much better is the question.

And the point about cutting down Carson's pre-season while worrying about the defenses pre-season is spot on also.

Peace.

KK solid??? Are we talking about the same Kevin Kaesviharn???

[membengal]

Yeah, we are. Who do you have in mind as a back-up safety, Ronnie Lott? The guy is experienced, knows his job, and the team doesn't suffer a noticeable fall-off when he plays. Hard to know what your beef is with him, but if you are picking at the back-up safety, then this team must be strong indeed.

[Kirkendall]

Yeah, we are. Who do you have in mind as a back-up safety, Ronnie Lott? The guy is experienced, knows his job, and the team doesn't suffer a noticeable fall-off when he plays. Hard to know what your beef is with him, but if you are picking at the back-up safety, then this team must be strong indeed.

Does KK remind anyone of Dustin Fox for OSU?

[Whooodeyyy]

That was why I was begging to see them trade down big time to try to get Sean Taylor. That guy is going to be a killer this year. He will be the D rookie of the year by far. We could have given our #1 and Dillon to someone and traded down. Possibly even a 2 pick.

Oh well. That is water under the bridge.

I agree--- Oh well, live & learn.....

[NoFan]

Unless you strap on the jock and the orange and black at PBS lockerroom there is no "WE." Don't include yourself with the teamwhen you aren't part of them.

Nate Webster is not a true middle line backer. He is a low IQ, all mouth, could have been. Caleb Miller is far better than the 4 year bench warmer/ woman beater, Nate Webster.

Torched James needs to go and if O'neill is not healthy he does too.

The defense, talent wise is better than last year. The problem is they are inconsistent. They cant' stop the run one game. The next, they can't stop the pass.

The secondary is suspect. Torched James has looked horrible. The rookies look better. Kimberly Herring is nothing special. Justin Smith is being pushed out of the play 9 out of 10 times.

Marvin needs to fire that sorry excuse for a defensive coordinator and take over the defense himself.

The future is bright at PBS but the future is not now. Too much inconsistent play on D and key injuries on offense could create a big hole to dig out of.

[membengal]

Unless you strap on the jock and the orange and black at PBS lockerroom there is no "WE." Don't include yourself with the teamwhen you aren't part of them.

Nate Webster is not a true middle line backer. He is a low IQ, all mouth, could have been. Caleb Miller is far better than the 4 year bench warmer/ woman beater, Nate Webster.

Torched James needs to go and if O'neill is not healthy he does too.

The defense, talent wise is better than last year. The problem is they are inconsistent. They cant' stop the run one game. The next, they can't stop the pass.

The secondary is suspect. Torched James has looked horrible. The rookies look better. Kimberly Herring is nothing special. Justin Smith is being pushed out of the play 9 out of 10 times.

Marvin needs to fire that sorry excuse for a defensive coordinator and take over the defense himself.

The future is bright at PBS but the future is not now. Too much inconsistent play on D and key injuries on offense could create a big hole to dig out of.

WTF are you talking about with that "WE" s**t? If you are referring to my post above, I was talking about "we" as in us having a conversation about Kevin Kaesviharn.

That aside, I have never had a problem with people so identifying with their team that it becomes a "we" situation.

Kind of what being a fan is.

Enjoy life in pessimism world. Glad to know that makes you happy.

[Bobcat Bengal]

Unless you strap on the jock and the orange and black at PBS lockerroom there is no "WE." Don't include yourself with the teamwhen you aren't part of them.

Gimme a break. I hate when people cry over that. I'll continue to say we as I please, if I've had to endure over the years watching Bengals football, I feel that I am at least entitled to call them that.

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[Sox]

Unless you strap on the jock and the orange and black at PBS lockerroom there is no "WE." Don't include yourself with the teamwhen you aren't part of them.

Nate Webster is not a true middle line backer. He is a low IQ, all mouth, could have been. Caleb Miller is far better than the 4 year bench warmer/ woman beater, Nate Webster.

Torched James needs to go and if O'neill is not healthy he does too.

The defense, talent wise is better than last year. The problem is they are inconsistent. They cant' stop the run one game. The next, they can't stop the pass.

The secondary is suspect. Torched James has looked horrible. The rookies look better. Kimberly Herring is nothing special. Justin Smith is being pushed out of the play 9 out of 10 times.

Marvin needs to fire that sorry excuse for a defensive coordinator and take over the defense himself.

The future is bright at PBS but the future is not now. Too much inconsistent play on D and key injuries on offense could create a big hole to dig out of.

Speaking only for myself,I'll use "we" any damn time I feel like it sparky.

[bengals4ever]

Unless you strap on the jock and the orange and black at PBS lockerroom there is no "WE."  Don't include yourself with the teamwhen you aren't part of them.

Gimme a break. I hate when people cry over that. I'll continue to say we as I please, if I've had to endure over the years watching Bengals football, I feel that I am at least entitled to call them that.

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Could be much worse. We could not be watching any team. It could happen. Has before. Look at Baltimore and Cl#v#l@nd as examples. Granted they did get a franchise back but middle of the night Baltimore?!?!?!

[bengals4ever]

Yeah, we are. Who do you have in mind as a back-up safety, Ronnie Lott? The guy is experienced, knows his job, and the team doesn't suffer a noticeable fall-off when he plays. Hard to know what your beef is with him, but if you are picking at the back-up safety, then this team must be strong indeed.

I would much rather see Madeiu Williams in there than KK. Not sure if Williams could play the FS position though. Guess I saw too many times late last year when KK just got burnt bad, esp. the clowns game. And that L still hurts.

[bengalsfan33]

The only thing I'm worried about is our secondary. Herring, James, Deltha, and Williams all will be back there. I am just not sure how good each of them will be yet...