Patriots fans response to the game...

[PatsFanTX]

Ok. Nice shootin', Tex. I've been saying all along on how not to get all pumped up because of the Vanilla Schemes the Patties threw at the Bungles' Offense. I agree there.

However, how do you know that Carson will be totally confused??? His development seems to be doing just fine. Going from 3 for 8 the first preseason game to 11 for 17 (wasn't it???) and 3 TDs. That's some development, wouldn't you agree???

Plus, don't compare Carson Palmer to that big ass choker over there in Indy. That's not right. I can hear Peyton Manning gagging all the way here down South!!!

Barbarian, first off my post was was not a knock on Palmer at all. I'm a huge fan of his and I think he will have an outstanding career with the Bengals.

How do I know he will be confused? That is Belichick's and Crennel's strength. They have done it to some of the best QB's in the NFL. Look at Pennington's 5-pick game last year against the Pats. He couldn't tell the entire game if the Pats were in man-to-man or zone. If a QB can't figure that out, the results are usually disasterous.

As for Manning, yea he tends to come up a little bit short in big games , but he is still one of the best QB's in the NFL in reading defenses. The Pats consistenly confuse him.

Anyway, should be a great game in Foxboro in December and I'm just hoping Palmer lights up the Jets in week 1.

[skyline]

Now this poor outing after a week in which Belichick apparently made numerous efforts to slap these guys back to consciousness.

I get the distinct feeling that the Patriots players are beginning to believe, or at least listen too much too, their own PR.

All of this after one, meaningless preseason game in August?

To try and draw any conclusions of how the Patriots will fare this year based on Saturday nights performance is totally absurd.

You really think you saw the Pats "real" defense Saturday? They just sat back in a vanilla-coated 3-4 defense with minimal blitz's and ZERO schemes.

Not to take anything away from the Bengals dominating physical performance, but come December, Carson Palmer will be so confused with what he will see he'll have that deer-in-the-headlights look.

If Belichick and company can confuse Payton Manning (he is 1-9 against BB and has never won in Foxboro) can you imagine what he will do to a rookie QB?

PatsFan, I agree that the regular season game will be a completely new ballgame. This preseason game holds no bearing on that outcome.

I will agree with the others, though, that you can't assume Palmer will be confused out of his mind. If you go by that logic, then the Pats won't know which way is up,because they'll be so disoriented. Remember, the Pats were playing against a vanilla defense from the Bengals as well...it goes both ways.

Should be a fun game come December

[Kirkendall]

...meaningless preseason game in August?

This cracks me up. When a team loses, the fans say "meaningless" but when teams win, fans rarely even mention it's a preseason game. I'm not picking on you, it's just something I finally picked up on.

I agree 100% with Joisey on this one. I was at the game, and the Pats looked very lazy and reacted way too slow to be a competitive football team (note: the first quarter). However, I do believe they'll be alright when the regular season comes around.

They (Pats) are still my favorites to win the Super Bowl this year too, and it should be a disappointment if they fail to bring home the big win.

[PatsFanTX]

This cracks me up. When a team loses, the fans say "meaningless" but when teams win, fans rarely even mention it's a preseason game.

Just to keep things in perspective, the Pats beat the Eagles (who have played in 3 consecutive NFC Championship games) in the first week of pre-season.

Other than the Pats coming away with no significant injuries, that game was "meaningless" as well.

Pre-season games are for evaluating talent and depth, get the starters a few snaps under real time conditions and not tipping your hand (on both offense and defense) on what you will do in the regular season.

Anyone that puts any credence in the results (win or loss) of a preseon game, is not a real football fan of the NFL.

[Kirkendall]

Pre-season games are for evaluating talent and depth, get the starters a few snaps under real time conditions and not tipping your hand (on both offense and defense) on what you will do in the regular season.

A high percentage of teams that have a winning record during the pre-season make the playoffs. So while they are meaningless, there's something to that as well.

The past 10 Super Bowl champions had a combined 30-12 (.714) preseason record in the year they won the Super Bowl. Nine of those 10 teams posted .500 or better preseason records. Last summer, the eventual Super Bowl teams – New England and Carolina – were unbeaten (8-0) in the preseason.

Preseason success has translated to Super Bowl victories throughout NFL history. Of the 38 Super Bowl champions, 30 (78.9%) posted a preseason winning percentage of .500 or higher. Overall, the 38 Super Bowl winners have a combined 115-65-2 (.637) preseason record

Anyone that puts any credence in the results (win or loss) of a preseon game, is not a real football fan of the NFL.

Guess the above proves I'm not a football fan. That's a gay comment.

[PatsFanTX]

Guess the above proves I'm not a football fan. That's a gay comment.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

[The Brew Man]

I guess Im just tired of the "vanilla" defense comment. I think it hold no weight. The Bengals were playing thier vanilla offense as well! So, the playing field was even. Marvin and company certainly didnt gameplan anymore than BB and the Pats. Shoot, they had even less time to prepare after the Monday game vs. Tampa. See you in the regular season.....

[HoosierCat]

PatsFanTX:

All of this after one, meaningless preseason game in August?

To try and draw any conclusions of how the Patriots will fare this year based on Saturday nights performance is totally absurd.

You're absolutely right, it would be absurd...if all I were talking about was last Saturday's game. But I'm talking about a pattern that goes back several weeks, and one that has been noticed by Pats writers like Rousseau as well as (apparently) by Belichick himself.

Go and re-read Lenny's camp report from the end of July. It's here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingCamp..._len&id=1849143 It's all about how the Pats are supposedly putting last year's victories behind them and focusing on the new season; in fact, it's so all about that, that one begins to suspect Lenny doth protest too much. And near the end, he lets a few clouds drift across the sunny picture he paints (my emphasis added):

Indeed, while there are old goals, Belichick has created an environment in which not even the most senior players take anything for granted here. That every season begins as a new one, that human memory banks are meant to be annually purged, is a common theme in the NFL as a whole. For whatever reason, Belichick has managed to lift the articulation of that message to art-form status, and his players often speak in Bill-talk when reacting to questions about the past.

There is, for sure, an automaton feel to some conversations. And players often seem too rehearsed, for fear a poorly phrased response might earn them a demerit from the man whose persona and methodologies supercedes everything else here. Then again, football is a game in which success is principally based on shared mindset, and the ever-diligent Patriots are mindful of not setting themselves up for a fall.

Most players might not want to hug Belichick, but they have, at least publicly, embraced his philosophies.

Did Belichick pick up on the same thing? He is a damn good coach, after all, and if Lenny sensed that some players were just going through the motions," I'm sure he did. Pats writer Kevin Rousseau suggests as much in the excerpt of his column I posted earlier, most notably that he thought Bill was trying to "make something out of nothing" after the Eagles game in order to motivate his players. If so, Saturday's game shows it didn't work. And ever since then, the game has been referred to as a "wake-up call." Well, if I'm wrong and you're right that it was just all about schemes and "vanilla defenses"...why do so many pro-Pats folks think they needed a wake-up call?

I'm not suggesting that the Pats are doomed, just that it seems Belichick may be having trouble shoveling through the mounds of praise being heaped on the Pats this year. The more success you have -- and this is true in just about every field of endevour, not just football -- the tougher it becomes to stay focused. Success inevitably breeds complacency. And for all Belichick's lifting of the last-year-don't-count-anymore message to art-form status, as Lenny writes, his players are also turning on the TV and listening to themselves being called a "dynasty" and hearing their QB compared to Joe Montana. I'm sure that kind of talk has Belichick banging his head against a wall.

[wookie]

1st of all, I don't put too much stock in the outcome of preseason games or I would've been like 1 or 2 guys around here and called it quits after the Tampa Bay game. But, for someone who keeps insisting that the game was meaningless to him PatsFanTX sure seems to be arguing a little too hard for his team.

Its true, the defenses ON BOTH SIDES were vanilla and the opposing QB's, WR's, and RB's, will all see a different scheme in the regular season. Palmer will have almost a full NFL season under his belt and will have studied enough film to be prepared for the game. I think he'll do just fine. Until the week before that game I'll have no prediction whatsoever about how the teams will fare. At this point, who really can??? The season hasn't started yet and teams haven't shown their true colors.

As for what the Patriots have done to Manning in the past...Manning is not Palmer so it doesn't have any relevance to this game. Besides, withthe rules being enforced on DB's now they won't get to hold or bump our receivers all over the field to make Palmer force a throw and get a pick. That's how the Patriots D dominated the Colts and Manning last year, with 15+ uncalled interference penalties.

Thanks for the well wishes against the Jets.

Don't insuate that our Kirkendall doesn't know football, just makes you look ignorant and you'll lose a lot of credability around here.

Till December. :player:

[spidey]

hi guys,

new to the board and have been a bengals fan since i was born back in 75 (my dad made sure of it).

the question i have for the pats fan is this. was the defensive scheme that confused manning or the fact that his receivers were held by the pats secondary without the refs calling it.

we'll see you in december... oh and good luck with leon. him getting stopped at the goal line is just one of his many attributes that he brings with him.

[BengalszoneBilly]

the question i have for the pats fan is this. was the defensive scheme that confused manning or the fact that his receivers were held by the pats secondary without the refs calling it.

spidey brings up a good point here. The New England secondary was well known for their manhandling of recievers down field. This type of contact won't be the norm as it has in the past. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cincy win again.

[PatsFanTX]

the question i have for the pats fan is this. was the defensive scheme that confused manning or the fact that his receivers were held by the pats secondary without the refs calling it.

spidey, I think it was a combination of both.

On the 4 picks (especially the 1st one by Ty Law) it looked like Manning thought they were in man coverage but they were in a Cover-3 zone.

The best thing the Pats do is disguise what type of D they are in.

As for the holding, clutching & grabbing, any Pats fan that says it did not occur is making excuses. It did happen.

However, the refs were not calling it at all. So why not push the envelope and play aggresively until something was called? BTW, the Colts had the same opportunity to play that way in their secondary but they played soft and instead, cried like little babies about how aggresive the Pats played.

Look for a flagged-filled, 4-hour game in the Thursday opener.