Status Quo?

[gregcook68]

Sounds like status quo offensively:

Q: Does Hue’s new direction center on the running game?

ML: You guys, you can’t say ‘running game,’ because you have to be able to throw the football productively in the National Football League. So I’ve had to back everyone down off that stance. Everyone says San Diego, that they ran the ball. Yeah, but when they scored their touchdown in the third quarter, they threw the ball six out of nine plays. People don’t understand that. You have to productively throw the football in the NFL. You can’t turn the football over, and you’ve got to be able to run the football and be more physical. That’s all a part of what we want to do. But that’s not a change from where we were that’s just going back and putting a redirection on it, a target on it and let’s go.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, you can't turn the ball over. Duh.

So you've got to be able to run the football and be more physical huh ??

Tell me again how many times Dalton threw the football in the playoff loss ??

[gregcook68]

Yeah, you can't turn the ball over. Duh.

So you've got to be able to run the football and be more physical huh ??

Tell me again how many times Dalton threw the football in the playoff loss ??

The take I got on it Army was at the beginning when he basically said, running was NOT going to be their identity like Hue said when he was first named OC.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, and how well has that thought process worked out ??

I'm not saying they need to be a run first team, they just need to be more balanced.

In order to do that, they need to ensure their QB isn't throwing the ball 50+ times in a game.

[volcom69]

Sure its a passing league, its a passing league if you had a QB that could throw it 50 times and not turn the ball over. Sorry, I like Dalton but he is a turnover machine, and should not be able to throw the ball over 25 times. I believe in running the ball 25 plus times, and they win, and its a proven fact. Problem is they can never stick with it.

Marvin was the head coach, I still wonder why he never said to Gruden, he don't you think we should run the ball more, I mean Dalton is throwing it over 40 times a game. I don't understand that at all.

[gregcook68]

Look at the Pats first playoff game. Brady didn't attempt one TD pass let alone complete one.

They ran the ball down the Colts throat.

[HoosierCat]

Again, why are you all so surprised? I told you before, Lewis doesn't believe in the running game. No matter who the OC or QB is it's throw, throw, throw. Think back to Palmer's last year here. How many times were we screaming about him throwing when the Bengals had a lead late and getting picked? Or when we had to roll with Fitzy and never adjusted the O to account for his skill set. I guarantee Dalton will throw it 500+ times again next year. That's what Marvin wants. Run game? Believe it when you see it.

[ArmyBengal]

Not surprised, just irritating watching something you know isn't going to work.

[volcom69]

Again, why are you all so surprised? I told you before, Lewis doesn't believe in the running game. No matter who the OC or QB is it's throw, throw, throw. Think back to Palmer's last year here. How many times were we screaming about him throwing when the Bengals had a lead late and getting picked? Or when we had to roll with Fitzy and never adjusted the O to account for his skill set. I guarantee Dalton will throw it 500+ times again next year. That's what Marvin wants. Run game? Believe it when you see it.

Im starting to think this is true. It drives me crazy! Like I said it might be ok if they had a QB who was not turning the ball over at every game. This is not the case at all, they have a QB who would be much better with a great running game. Without the running game its going to be the same thing every year.

[combatbengal]

You all correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that we were making good progress with the run game at the beginning of that Charger game. I ever made a comment that I was surprised that the Law firm was doing so well at the beginning of the game; he usually doesn't come around until the 2nd half. But then for some reason we went away from the run game and got beat. Now I'm not saying that we run the ball all game but there has to be a balance.

[HoosierCat]

After the Chargers game, Gruden said that he quit running the ball before the Chargers actually stopped our rushing attack because he thought the opposing DC would figure it out, which has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. But that said, I think it's worth going back to Ben Muth's look at the game because he highlights one thing the Chargers did do and one problem we had dealing with it.

I really thought the Chargers safeties did a great job in run support, particularly in the first half. The Chargers were playing with two deep safeties a lot early in the game, seemingly in an effort to encourage the Bengals to run the ball. Then, as soon as the Cincy showed any run action at all, the safety on the play side would come flying towards the line of scrimmage in run support. Let’s take a look at a play from the first quarter so I can show you what I'm talking about.

He proceeds to highlight a play in which the Bengals offensive line (including Gresham) do a great job and blow open a huge hole wide of left tackle. But by the time the leadfooted BJGE plods to the breach, Marcus Gilchrist has had time to come from 10 yards back from the line and tackle Green-Ellis for a two-yard gain.

The Chargers continued to do this throughout the game. As Muth points out, this should make them vulnerable to play-action: fake the handoff to draw up the safeties and then fire downfield to Green, Jones, anyone. However, that seemed to be too deep a concept for Gruden.

While I don't think the Bengals will run the ball a lot more in 2014, what I do hope is that Hue will run the ball -- and throw the ball -- smarter. That he will see opportunities like this and will be able to make the kind of in-game and in-drive adjustments that Jay seems to have struggled with.

[ArmyBengal]

What I do hope is that Hue will run the ball -- and throw the ball -- smarter. That he will see opportunities like this and will be able to make the kind of in-game and in-drive adjustments that Jay seems to have struggled with.

There is EXACTLY where I am with this.

While I certainly understand the bashing of Dalton, i'm simply willing to give it the 2014 season to see what Hue does with the offense.

Does Dalton need to cut down on turnovers ?? Of course he does, no denying. However, what position Gruden put him in at times was less than ideal.

Where does anyone think Dalton throwing the ball 50+ times equates to winning ?? Yeah, Gruden did.

I want Andy to take the next step and hope Hue can help with that.

If he can't, then 2015 is the year to reconsider long term options.

[HoosierCat]

Good little write up by Harvey.

You won't hear Jackson admit to that, though. Nor will you hear any of his players own up to it. But it is apparent the Bengals' biggest stars were able to skate by under the previous offensive staff. One of the dirty little secrets about Cincinnati's offenses the past three seasons is that while good and quite talented, the unit was missing the type of brash, in-your-face coaching that was often needed.

That is not meant to slam former offensive coordinator Jay Gruden, now the head coach in Washington. On the contrary, it seemed he did everything he could to get the very best out of his players. He did, after all, help coach a quarterback few believed in as a rookie and turned him into a playoff-contending signal-caller in each of his first three seasons. The Bengals' 2013 offense was the league's 10th-best. Gruden coached his players the best way he knew how.

The thing is, Gruden didn't have the meanest of mean streaks in him. He wasn't Zimmer, and he wasn't the coach Jackson will be.

When Green would embarrass his quarterback by inexplicably cutting off a route during a game, leading to an interception, Gruden wouldn't repeatedly needle him the rest of the season. That just wasn't part of his persona. Green's occasional sluggish route finishes might have been addressed when they happened, but apparently that wasn't often enough. Had they been addressed as often as needed, then perhaps he wouldn't have continued dragging through routes even as late as the playoff loss to San Diego. If he continued running through a "Go" route deep in the last few minutes of the fourth quarter, he might have caught a touchdown pass that would have put the Bengals right back in the contest. Instead, he slowed up, and the ball fell just out of reach. Cincinnati went on to lose 27-10, extending its postseason winless drought to 23 seasons.

When Dalton would force turnover after same odd turnover in the same game, he wasn't getting scolded for it the next six days. But again, that's OK, it's just not how Gruden coached. If Gruden did all of a sudden try to exhibit the tougher temperament that might have been needed, he likely wouldn't have been taken seriously. It wouldn't have been genuine. Players can see behind what's real and what isn't, and he genuinely would have lost all control of the offense at that point had he tried to be someone he wasn't.

To his credit, though, Jackson really is an old-school, hard-on-players type of coach.

If Green cuts off a route once this season, don't expect him to do it again. If Dalton has a multi-turnover game this season, it would be surprising to see him come back and have another the next week. If he does, then Jackson hasn't done his job.

/>http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/5962/bengals-hue-jackson-andy-dalton-aj-green-spark

Only thing I would disagree with is that the O hasn't been pressed for a lot longer than 3 years.

[HoosierCat]

Another good piece from Harvey looking at how physical the Bengals weren't in the run game last year.

By looking at short-yardage, third-down and goal-line statistics, we can also see how physically a team runs. The numbers show that when it came to converting third downs, the Bengals weren't all that good. Overall, they ranked 24th in third-down conversion, turning only 43.9 percent of their third downs into first downs. That low figure primarily can be explained by the high rate of third-and-longs the Bengals had. Of their 225 third-down chances last season, 164 came with them needing 4 or more yards to reach the first-down marker.

As poorly as the Bengals were at converting third downs, they really weren't very good when using the run to get first downs. They ranked 24th in converting third-and-longs with the run, doing so only 19.2 percent of the time. When needing 3 yards or fewer on third downs, they used the run to get first downs 64.5 percent of the time. They ranked 19th in doing that.

If we go by the numbers alone, we see the Bengals weren't very physical in third-down conversion scenarios. On the goal line, however, they were. They ranked second in goal-to-go efficiency, ending up with touchdowns on 22 of their 25 goal-to-go drives. They ran the ball during each scoring drive and finished 10 of those drives with running plays.

Coley's takeaway is that the Bengals were inconsistent run blockers and need to make that a point of emphasis in camp this year. I can't argue with that. But the one thing that jumps out at me is that they were 19th running for a first down with 3 yards or less to go, but second running for TDs on the goal line. Why such a huge discrepancy? At a guess I would bet it involves two words, "Domata" and "Peko." I know, I know, it's beating a dead horse and it's not going to happen but damn we could use a bruising lead blocker at FB, not a converted TE.