OK Were Screwed !!!

[jjakq27]

When that wasn't there the O wasn't able to carry the team.

Not wholly true. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. The Indy game in December springs immediately to mind. D crapped the bed bad in the second half, coughing up four touchdown drives, but Dalton and the O matched them score for score. The first three games of 2012 are another example; Bengals went 2-1 to start the year even though the D gave up a combined 102 points. I remember how surprised I was because I thought the D was going to need to carry the team to get off to a good start and instead it was the offense.

Hoos', Zim's teams were far from perfect but I would say they could be counted on to hold their own most of the time. The Indy game did feature some out-of-character bad tackling in the second half. It is probably one of the few times that they let up but they were up 21-0 in the third quarter when the track meet started. I don't recall being overly concerned since they had been in control for much of the game. As for 2012, I really wasn't thinking back that far other than the playoff games. My comments were more directed at 2013.

I am not dismissing his body of work, I wish zim could have stayed, but I am saying in response to to the world is ending posts over his leaving that a frank look at his tenure includes acknowledging he had troubles getting his unit to be good in the playoffs. That's just a fact. I hope grunther can improve on that should we get back next year.

I think the second playoff game against the Texans was the one for the taking. They held Houston to a TD and four FGs, while our offense was only able to muster two FGs to go with Leon's pick six. Andy's overthrow of AJ in the fourth quarter was inexcusable. They should have won that game.

The year before it was 10-10 before Watt's pick six at the half and the offense was shutout in the second half and the D got rolled for a 31-10 final.

In 2009 vs the Jets, it was 14-7 at the half and the O was shutout in the 2nd and 3rd quarters including one of Shanks' two missed FGs on the day to lose 24-14.

To me the telling stat is the Marvin's teams are -11 in turnover differential in the five playoff games. That's over two per game. Usually no one can overcome that deficit.

I think Guenther will do a good job. However, he is not the taskmaster that Zimmer was and I am concerned with some slippage. So I think it is on Marvin to help on that end and not to let guys take advantage of Guenther or ease up now that Zimmer is gone.

[gregcook68]

When that wasn't there the O wasn't able to carry the team.

Not wholly true. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. The Indy game in December springs immediately to mind. D crapped the bed bad in the second half, coughing up four touchdown drives, but Dalton and the O matched them score for score. The first three games of 2012 are another example; Bengals went 2-1 to start the year even though the D gave up a combined 102 points. I remember how surprised I was because I thought the D was going to need to carry the team to get off to a good start and instead it was the offense.

Hoos', Zim's teams were far from perfect but I would say they could be counted on to hold their own most of the time. The Indy game did feature some out-of-character bad tackling in the second half. It is probably one of the few times that they let up but they were up 21-0 in the third quarter when the track meet started. I don't recall being overly concerned since they had been in control for much of the game. As for 2012, I really wasn't thinking back that far other than the playoff games. My comments were more directed at 2013.

I am not dismissing his body of work, I wish zim could have stayed, but I am saying in response to to the world is ending posts over his leaving that a frank look at his tenure includes acknowledging he had troubles getting his unit to be good in the playoffs. That's just a fact. I hope grunther can improve on that should we get back next year.

I think the second playoff game against the Texans was the one for the taking. They held Houston to a TD and four FGs, while our offense was only able to muster two FGs to go with Leon's pick six. Andy's overthrow of AJ in the fourth quarter was inexcusable. They should have won that game.

The year before it was 10-10 before Watt's pick six at the half and the offense was shutout in the second half and the D got rolled for a 31-10 final.

In 2009 vs the Jets, it was 14-7 at the half and the O was shutout in the 2nd and 3rd quarters including one of Shanks' two missed FGs on the day to lose 24-14.

To me the telling stat is the Marvin's teams are -11 in turnover differential in the five playoff games. That's over two per game. Usually no one can overcome that deficit.

I think Guenther will do a good job. However, he is not the taskmaster that Zimmer was and I am concerned with some slippage. So I think it is on Marvin to help on that end and not to let guys take advantage of Guenther or ease up now that Zimmer is gone.

I'm sure the 49er fans are saying the same thing after Kap overthrew his receiver last year against Baltimore, losing the SB, and

threw a pick against Seattle this year to

prevent his team from going to the SB again this year!

Of course the media doesn't seem to be too concerned about that.

[cincyhokie]

Honestly, is it really fair to have any idea what kind of job Guenther can do?

He was the linebackers coach. There's no way any of us have any idea of his strenghts and weaknesses are, sans some of the players comments. And unless, of course, you have privy to the Bengals practices and games from the sideline.

In the case of the Bengals, continuity is good. Hence, Guenther seems to be a good hire. Hue Jackson seems to be a good hire. Let's see what happens.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, I don't know about Guenther either, but I know this.

If Zimmer wanted him to run HIS defense in Minnesota, there has to be something to him and i'm glad he's here.

[kingwilly]

Yeah, I don't know about Guenther either, but I know this.

If Zimmer wanted him to run HIS defense in Minnesota, there has to be something to him and i'm glad he's here.

+1

agree

it worked out as well as it could with Zim leaving.

[jjakq27]

Honestly, is it really fair to have any idea what kind of job Guenther can do?

He was the linebackers coach. There's no way any of us have any idea of his strenghts and weaknesses are, sans some of the players comments. And unless, of course, you have privy to the Bengals practices and games from the sideline.

In the case of the Bengals, continuity is good. Hence, Guenther seems to be a good hire. Hue Jackson seems to be a good hire. Let's see what happens.

We have no more insight with Guenther than we do with how the next wave of draftpicks will do or how an available free agent will work out or anything else we discuss here.

I think he will do well because of the system that has been put in place. And based on Zim, Marvin and some of the players, he contributed to it over the last few years. So again I believe it is up to Marvin to make sure the guys are in line with what Guenther wants and needs to maintain was Zim started. And it is up to the team to draft well, invest in the defense and give that side of the ball the same attention as when Zimmer was here.

Marvin left Baltimore and they survived. Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan and Chuck Pagano all left and they survived. It was because of the above things and a guy named Ray Lewis. Hopefully Burfict or Gino can be that difference maker here for Guenther.

[Kazkal]

Im not a betting man but id say burfict can be our rey lewis who im I kiddin I am a bettin man

[Scottishbengal]

I for one like the idea of promoting from within, it adds a level of continuity and gives the position coaches something to aim for.

Gruden leaving, in my opinion, is an addition by subtraction. Hue stepping up gives the continuity that doesn't demand re-writing a whole new playbook, and gives some consistency for the playing staff. 3 positives from the situation.

Zimmer leaving is a disappointment but c'mon folks, he's certainly earned his shot at being a HC and I wish him all the best except for when he's playing vs the Bengals. Guenther again gives that continuity and consistency so certainly 2 positives from the situation.

I'm good with the overall scenario.

[Walrus]

IMO, I'm pretty optimistic that Guenther will be able to continue our success on Defense. He knows the organization, knows the system, has been successful with the position groups he has worked with, is well-regarded by the players by several accounts, particularly by Burfict who just so happens to be the emerging leader on D. Without knowing anything else about the guy, I have a good feeling for how he will do.

Hue, I'm not sure about ... On one hand, he does know the organization and the players. He has the reputation as a "player's coach", so being well-liked as a coach will hopefully also translate to being well-regarded as a coordinator. The offense has had some success, to be sure, under Gruden, and that momentum should carry them forward into 2014.

On the other hand, it seems like there are some things that need to be fixed. Is Hue the guy to oversee those changes? Hue was behind keeping poorly-utilized Orson Charles in 2013. To me, that doesn't bode well for the vaunted renewed emphasis on the running game. Also, in a previous life, Hue was best buddies with some of the former players we as fans have worked hard to exorcise from our collective memories. I worry that the locker room could lose discipline and focus if the wrong kind of guys come around again. Sorry to be a bit of a downer and if I'm being unfair to a guy who has yet to prove himself I apologize. This is just my honest impression.

[HoosierCat]

On the other hand, it seems like there are some things that need to be fixed. Is Hue the guy to oversee those changes? Hue was behind keeping poorly-utilized Orson Charles in 2013. To me, that doesn't bode well for the vaunted renewed emphasis on the running game. Also, in a previous life, Hue was best buddies with some of the former players we as fans have worked hard to exorcise from our collective memories. I worry that the locker room could lose discipline and focus if the wrong kind of guys come around again. Sorry to be a bit of a downer and if I'm being unfair to a guy who has yet to prove himself I apologize. This is just my honest impression.

It's a legitimate concern IMO. Again, I wonder if it isn't more about whether the Bengals culture has changed at all regarding offensive stars. Stretching back two decades or more now, if you were an offensive starter, and especially a good one, you pretty much had carte blanche to do whatever you pleased. Long before Housh began skipping offseason workouts, there was Darnay Scott, who was famous for vanishing completely in the offseason, to the point the team didn't even have a phone number. Neither the saga of the Flipper of Burgers nor the Ocho Clownshow needs exposition here. Carson got little bro hired and Reggie Kelly re-signed. Excuses were made for bad behavior from everyone from Tremaine Mack to Chris Henry. And just this past year we've heard rumors that they baby Dalton and seen our former OC beg a LB not to hit precious snowflake AJ Green in practice.

So yeah, we need a bit of arse-kicking and name-taking on the offensive side of the ball. And for all his rep as a player's coach, Hue seems to have more fire than the last couple guys. But will an organization that has traditionally indulged its offensive stars let him? We'll see.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm in the wait and see category with Hue as well, but also won't complain about him being the guy.

I like his thoughts on running the ball, but we will wait and see.

I like his talk about easing things for Dalton, but we will wait and see.

I like much of what he says, but we will wait and see.

That might sound negative, but like I said, i'm ok with him being the guy at OC.