cincyhokie Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 What was that talk about the Bengals and all teams being required to spend a certain percentage near the cap? Just looking for a small light in a season of darkness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpeldios Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I am pretty sure it is something like you have to be at 90% by the start of next season. Of course once the bengals take into consideration rookie pay, extensions for undeserving players, injuries and a new suit for mike brown they will actually need to cut some pay for next year if you listen to bengals.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Most don't believe it, but the Bengals usually spend pretty close to the cap and I don't really see this as a big issue for the team. If the thought is, now they will put out some money, I say only if we are talking about their own guys. Atkins is going to cost them to keep and then you know they are going to keep dumbasses like Maualuga around, so I hope no one banks on them bringing in any other FA's. If they do, it will be the same old, same old.Put all your hopes and dreams into the draft and hope they hit.If not, it's going to be more of the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Most don't believe it, but the Bengals usually spend pretty close to the cap and I don't really see this as a big issue for the team. If the thought is, now they will put out some money, I say only if we are talking about their own guys. Atkins is going to cost them to keep and then you know they are going to keep dumbasses like Maualuga around, so I hope no one banks on them bringing in any other FA's. If they do, it will be the same old, same old.Put all your hopes and dreams into the draft and hope they hit.If not, it's going to be more of the same.As long as Marvin is here it is always going to be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 What was that talk about the Bengals and all teams being required to spend a certain percentage near the cap? Just looking for a small light in a season of darkness.Starting next year, teams individually must spend to at least 89% of the cap. So for example, if the cap were $120 million again (as it is this year) teams would have to spend at least $107 million each.League-wide, teams must spend a total amount on players equal to 95% of the cap.Like Army said, it's not really an issue because the Bengals always "spend to the cap" or close enough to it that they will easily hit the 89% number. I put "spend to the cap" in quotes because it's important to understand that it's how the team spends that's the issue. The Bengals have always liked "pay as you budgeting." If they give out a $10 million signing bonus on a five-year deal, they prefer to count that money against the cap as soon as possible, versus stretching it out over the lifetime of the deal. This is why they couldn't go after Carson for any of his signing bonus: they had amortized it ahead of time.This accounting method puts them at a severe disadvantage versus teams that are willing to stretch out the hit or backload deals or play other kinds of cap games. On the plus side, they rarely have to worry about cap jail. But on the downside it means they can't afford more than a couple elite-price players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 What was that talk about the Bengals and all teams being required to spend a certain percentage near the cap? Just looking for a small light in a season of darkness.Starting next year, teams individually must spend to at least 89% of the cap. So for example, if the cap were $120 million again (as it is this year) teams would have to spend at least $107 million each.League-wide, teams must spend a total amount on players equal to 95% of the cap.Like Army said, it's not really an issue because the Bengals always "spend to the cap" or close enough to it that they will easily hit the 89% number. I put "spend to the cap" in quotes because it's important to understand that it's how the team spends that's the issue. The Bengals have always liked "pay as you budgeting." If they give out a $10 million signing bonus on a five-year deal, they prefer to count that money against the cap as soon as possible, versus stretching it out over the lifetime of the deal. This is why they couldn't go after Carson for any of his signing bonus: they had amortized it ahead of time.This accounting method puts them at a severe disadvantage versus teams that are willing to stretch out the hit or backload deals or play other kinds of cap games. On the plus side, they rarely have to worry about cap jail. But on the downside it means they can't afford more than a couple elite-price players.Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but when is the last time this team went after an elite priced player? I've seen them more often than not, reward flash in the pan seasons for players who follow them with nothing after that. Geathers. Waste of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but when is the last time this team went after an elite priced player?Well, they never really do, of course. I'm thinking more of their habit of limiting how many of their own top guys they re-sign. Housh wasn't offered a big-money deal (until the very end, when it was far too late) because the Bengals maintained they couldn't pay two WRs top dollar. JJoe was let go because they claimed they couldn't pay two top corners. Ridiculous of course. If Buffalo found $100 million for Mario Williams the Bengals could have found money for Hall + JJoe.I've seen them more often than not, reward flash in the pan seasons for players who follow them with nothing after that. Geathers. Waste of space.Perhaps but that's the organization's fault for screwing him up. Geathers had his big 10-sack season as a situational pass rusher, a role in which he excelled. But after they paid him, well, you can't make that kind of money in Cincy and be a role-player. So they had him bulk up and put him in full time and had him rotating in as a DT too...and his numbers cratered. Then it was slim down and play LB (remember that?) which didn't work either so then it was gain weight back and be a DE whose strength now is...wait for it...stuffing the run!In short, the Bengals took an above average pass rush specialist and turned him into a mediocre run-stuffer. :frustrated: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsemen Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sorry but no, this isn't good news, it's no news and we have seen it before. Our best players will be lowballed and walk, we'll overpay some mediocre 3rd tier FA to sell to the fans as an upgrade and then we'll resign some of our own mediocre players to far larger contracts than they will receive elsewhere, save that last 15% of the cap requirement "in case of injuries" then Baghdad Hob will sell that we made the greatest moves in FA history. Same ol same ol.Creative accounting will get us to the requirements but other than that we're not going to see changes where we start going after GOOD FA's and keeping our best players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sorry but no, this isn't good news, it's no news and we have seen it before. Our best players will be lowballed and walk, we'll overpay some mediocre 3rd tier FA to sell to the fans as an upgrade and then we'll resign some of our own mediocre players to far larger contracts than they will receive elsewhere, save that last 15% of the cap requirement "in case of injuries" then Baghdad Hob will sell that we made the greatest moves in FA history. Same ol same ol.Creative accounting will get us to the requirements but other than that we're not going to see changes where we start going after GOOD FA's and keeping our best players.Baghdad Hobson. Isn't that the truth. Every year I see his salaray cap explanation and I want to throw my fist through the f**king computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsemen Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sorry but no, this isn't good news, it's no news and we have seen it before. Our best players will be lowballed and walk, we'll overpay some mediocre 3rd tier FA to sell to the fans as an upgrade and then we'll resign some of our own mediocre players to far larger contracts than they will receive elsewhere, save that last 15% of the cap requirement "in case of injuries" then Baghdad Hob will sell that we made the greatest moves in FA history. Same ol same ol.Creative accounting will get us to the requirements but other than that we're not going to see changes where we start going after GOOD FA's and keeping our best players.Baghdad Hobson. Isn't that the truth. Every year I see his salaray cap explanation and I want to throw my fist through the f**king computer.Yep. It won't change either. Fans will get their hopes and dreams up that we're going to FINALLY do things right with this new requirement and when it doesn't happen Hobson will come out with some more fake math numbers and spin on how we we are so far ahead of the rest of the NFL with our spending and moves, how we brilliantly sat back and let everyone else overpay while we waited and pounced at the perfect time and instead of buying "a name(AKA a great player)" we grabbed 4 or 5 even better players, how we upgraded every hole we had and how we still have money to spare "in case of injuries or unexpected circumstances that may arise." Just like every other year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Most don't believe it, but the Bengals usually spend pretty close to the cap and I don't really see this as a big issue for the team. If the thought is, now they will put out some money, I say only if we are talking about their own guys. Atkins is going to cost them to keep and then you know they are going to keep dumbasses like Maualuga around, so I hope no one banks on them bringing in any other FA's. If they do, it will be the same old, same old.Put all your hopes and dreams into the draft and hope they hit.If not, it's going to be more of the same.I can pretty much bet that Atkins will get tagged, then be let to walk. And someone will spend a metric ass ton for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 You want good news? How about Andre Smith leaving town, Rey Maualuga leaving town, Manny Lawson leaving town, Bernard Scott leaving town, and more than likely, Robert Geathers leaving town. I think Geathers is getting paid more than a million dollars per sack on this current contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Andre Smith leaving would not be good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Andre Smith leaving would not be good news.Did you hit your head during that blast in Indiana today? Smith has played a total of one and a half years of above average football in 4 years. His cap number would be around $12.5-$13 million. This year the offensive lineman tag number was like $11.6 million. I wouldn't trust that fat, lazy, brittle ass man with $5 million dollars let alone $13 million on a one year contract. There is a reason why they didn't pick up his 5th year option. I couldn't find jack about Smith's option years being declined but I find this. If true it would have been a bargain to pick it up. That should tell you A LOT about how much the Bengals trust Smith.Had the Bengals extended Smith's contract, he would have earned a $4.75 million option bonus with base salaries of $3.5 million in 2013 and $8 million in '14. Instead ...My linkSo do you still think the Bengals will tag him? I said in the game thread today what the Bengals could do. Draft a RT with one of their first 3 picks. Put Cook back at center, kick Robinson to LG, Boling to RT and let the rookie compete and see if he can take the starting job from Boling. A ling of Whit, Wharton, Cook, Zeitler, and Boling/Rookie isn't all that bad, and it saves money to improve safety and extend Atkins, MJ, and set up the Green and Dalton extension in the off season next year since cap space can be carried over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Smith has played a total of one and a half years of above average football in 4 years. And so when he's actually living up to his status your answer is...don't pay him, dump him and spend a top pick replacing him! Mike Brown loves fans like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Smith has played a total of one and a half years of above average football in 4 years. And so when he's actually living up to his status your answer is...don't pay him, dump him and spend a top pick replacing him! Mike Brown loves fans like you.Andre Smith held out for a contract that was more than his slotted position in the draft, and was actually given an extra $2 million in signing bonus for allowing the Bengals to add the 2 extra optional contract years, essential giving Smith a 6 year contract. (All this stuff is obsolete now) Smith shows up late for his rookie camp, out of shape and over weight. He subsequently got hurt, rookie season done. Bengals asked Smith to stay in Cincinnati during the offseason to rehab and make sure he stayed within his contract weight and was in shape. Smith said he would be fine in Alabama. Deja'vu, Smith shows up out of shape and overweight, and his foot was not rehabbed, and still not fit to play. Smith's second year was wasted. Smith's third year he comes to camp within his weight limit and in decent shape. Marvin still complained about his endurance and Smith spent part of camp running on the side before he practiced with the team. Smith plays almost the entire season at above average play and is chosen the All-AFC North RT, in what ESPN described as a weak year for RT in the division. During the offseason the Bengals decided not to pick up Smith's option contract years, essentially making Smith a free agent after the 2012 season. Smith comes into camp this year in his best shape and weight of his career (surprise ), and at the mid point of the season is once again picked as the AFC North's best RT. Smith has by far played the best of his career this year, but still has had some really bad games, including getting owned in the Denver game. So at this point what do you think Smith's value is? After looking at his history, why would you trust him with a huge one year pay day? Why would you even want to sign him to a contract and give him more than likely a pretty big signing bonus? Smith has not in my mind showed the dedication that deserves a "Second Contract" payday of a starting RT in the NFL. When it's said and done, he's only going to play about 50% of his rookie contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Johnson Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 you need to learn what sunk costs are dude... for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 you need to learn what sunk costs are dude... for real.I do, because I have no idea what you are talking about. I do know the Bengals want to stay young, healthy, talented, and under the cap enough to extend the corp players they hope will build a perennial playoff contender. If you think giving Smith a franchise tag, or signing him to a 3-4 year deal, I'm going to argue and say he can be replaced a lot easier than you think. This line looked pretty good today with an undrafted free agent center and a rookie RG in Zeitler. I hope you have a lot better argument than something about Captain Nemo and his 'sunk' treasure. I do know Andre Smith's hands were sunk in Mike Brown's pocket book the first two years in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Not to worried about cap next year mike is willing spend money on his own and were gonna have alot young guys who need new contracts and extensions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Most don't believe it, but the Bengals usually spend pretty close to the cap and I don't really see this as a big issue for the team. If the thought is, now they will put out some money, I say only if we are talking about their own guys. Atkins is going to cost them to keep and then you know they are going to keep dumbasses like Maualuga around, so I hope no one banks on them bringing in any other FA's. If they do, it will be the same old, same old.Put all your hopes and dreams into the draft and hope they hit.If not, it's going to be more of the same.As one reys biggest supporters i see his time done after this season we have a young guy who is this is making plays and i see him taking reys spot unless they want to keep him on the outside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Not to worried about cap next year mike is willing spend money on his own and were gonna have alot young guys who need new contracts and extensionsYep, but that is why it is extremely important not to waste money anymore, because left over cap space can be rolled over to the next year, and after next year Dalton and Green will both be up for extensions. Mike Brown is going to have to back the Brinks truck up to Paul Brown Stadium for those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sorry but no, this isn't good news, it's no news and we have seen it before. Our best players will be lowballed and walk, we'll overpay some mediocre 3rd tier FA to sell to the fans as an upgrade and then we'll resign some of our own mediocre players to far larger contracts than they will receive elsewhere, save that last 15% of the cap requirement "in case of injuries" then Baghdad Hob will sell that we made the greatest moves in FA history. Same ol same ol.Creative accounting will get us to the requirements but other than that we're not going to see changes where we start going after GOOD FA's and keeping our best players.If they give Geno or Aj a chance to test the market i will give up on this team they should have extensions the day the bengals are allowed to extend them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Im pretty sure they cant extend Aj amd dalton until their 4th year...this year they need work on resigning Geno Dunlap and MJ <for the right price> maybe mauluga if he is cheap enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sorry but no, this isn't good news, it's no news and we have seen it before. Our best players will be lowballed and walk, we'll overpay some mediocre 3rd tier FA to sell to the fans as an upgrade and then we'll resign some of our own mediocre players to far larger contracts than they will receive elsewhere, save that last 15% of the cap requirement "in case of injuries" then Baghdad Hob will sell that we made the greatest moves in FA history. Same ol same ol.Creative accounting will get us to the requirements but other than that we're not going to see changes where we start going after GOOD FA's and keeping our best players.If they give Geno or Aj a chance to test the market i will give up on this team they should have extensions the day the bengals are allowed to extend themI think Geno and MJ are eligible to do contract extensions in March. (Yep and Dunlap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I can't say as any of the cap talk has ever interested me all that much.The Bengals always spend pretty close to the cap, but as mentioned (I think), it's how they spend it.No matter how much I talk about it, that thought process isn't changing any time soon.Cap talk gets a big yawn from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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