Roster Cutdown Begins

[Sea Ray]

I think one QB of the future is enough for any roster. Really do you want two QBs of the future out of three on a 53 man roster?

Dalton's worth is questionable. It's OK to hedge your bets in that circumstance by carrying another young QB.

However, if Dalton looks bad this year, then the QB of the future is probably in college right now.

I agree that Dalton's far from a sure thing but they are investing an awful lot in him. So much so, really, how much more is there to go around? I have no problem carrying another QB of the future but I want to do it like the Saints are in the example Hair gave with Canfield: on the practice squad; not the 53 man roster

[Spor_tees]

I think one QB of the future is enough for any roster. Really do you want two QBs of the future out of three on a 53 man roster?

Dalton's worth is questionable. It's OK to hedge your bets in that circumstance by carrying another young QB.

However, if Dalton looks bad this year, then the QB of the future is probably in college right now.

I agree that Dalton's far from a sure thing but they are investing an awful lot in him. So much so, really, how much more is there to go around? I have no problem carrying another QB of the future but I want to do it like the Saints are in the example Hair gave with Canfield: on the practice squad; not the 53 man roster

How many players worth the monicker franchise QB of the future are going to make it through waivers? Hair just likes Canfield, but Canfield is no Jake Locker or any other QB drafted in the early rounds of the draft. Canfield was a 7th rounder.

[princeton]

How many players worth the monicker franchise QB of the future are going to make it through waivers? Hair just likes Canfield, but Canfield is no Jake Locker or any other QB drafted in the early rounds of the draft. Canfield was a 7th rounder.

a lot more teams went with 2 QBs this season because of new 46 man roster rule. So in theory there's more QBs out there than usual. I have no clue as to whether the next Kurt Warner remains available to a team that wants to open up a 53 man roster spot, but Bengals are certainly in a situation where it's prudent to keep an eye out.

[Spor_tees]

How many players worth the monicker franchise QB of the future are going to make it through waivers? Hair just likes Canfield, but Canfield is no Jake Locker or any other QB drafted in the early rounds of the draft. Canfield was a 7th rounder.

a lot more teams went with 2 QBs this season because of new 46 man roster rule. So in theory there's more QBs out there than usual. I have no clue as to whether the next Kurt Warner remains available to a team that wants to open up a 53 man roster spot, but Bengals are certainly in a situation where it's prudent to keep an eye out.

That being said,how many high profile young QBs do you see on a practice squad or cut altogether? We all know that Terrell Pryor isn't NFL ready, but if the Raiders cut him today do you think he would make it through waivers? Now you could find a 'diamond in the rough' or 'coachable' QB on a practice squad or as a free agent, but that is a far cry from a guy labeled the future franchise QB.

[princeton]

how many high profile young QBs do you see on a practice squad or cut altogether? We all know that Terrell Pryor isn't NFL ready, but if the Raiders cut him today do you think he would make it through waivers? Now you could find a 'diamond in the rough' or 'coachable' QB on a practice squad or as a free agent, but that is a far cry from a guy labeled the future franchise QB.

not many, but Warner, Cassel, Orton, Brady and Vick were each third string at some point. If teams eliminate the third string QB position, then more talent is presumably available to a team that's weak at the position.

[Spor_tees]

how many high profile young QBs do you see on a practice squad or cut altogether? We all know that Terrell Pryor isn't NFL ready, but if the Raiders cut him today do you think he would make it through waivers? Now you could find a 'diamond in the rough' or 'coachable' QB on a practice squad or as a free agent, but that is a far cry from a guy labeled the future franchise QB.

not many, but Warner, Cassel, Orton, Brady and Vick were each third string at some point. If teams eliminate the third string QB position, then more talent is presumably available to a team that's weak at the position.

Warner was maybe third string, I mean what did you expect out of a guy from the Iowa Barnstormers who worked as a grocery bag boy. Cassel maybe too seeing as he never saw some serious playing time in college. Orton was a 4th round pick and I am pretty sure he was pretty much second string (2b so to speak) along side Chad Hutchinson and actually saw NFL playing time as a rookie. Tom Brady is an anomaly, because he was a sixth round pick that no one could have expected to turn out like he did. Vick was NEVER third string. He even played in 8 games his rookie year. Most of the guys you mentioned are exceptions to the norm as far as going from third string to franchise QB. It's like anything in life, it happens.

[princeton]

Vick was NEVER third string.

he was third string behind McNabb and Kolb in Philly a couple of years back

I don't disagree with you-- it's rare that a top QB emerges from the list of third stringers of past years. But it does occasionally happen, and the way that teams are reacting to new rule makes it more likely that another team could steal such a player off another team's practice squad, whereas in past the player was protected on the 53 man roster.

[Spor_tees]

Vick was NEVER third string.

he was third string behind McNabb and Kolb in Philly a couple of years back

I don't disagree with you-- it's rare that a top QB emerges from the list of third stringers of past years. But it does occasionally happen, and the way that teams are reacting to new rule makes it more likely that another team could steal such a player off another team's practice squad, whereas in past the player was protected on the 53 man roster.

If you count then, he also wasn't eligible for the practice squad either...so it's a moot point.

[HairOnFire]

I have no problem carrying another QB of the future but I want to do it like the Saints are in the example Hair gave with Canfield: on the practice squad; not the 53 man roster

In theory the Bengals ARE doing it exactly like the Saints have done with Canfield. But in practice the Saints now have a far more experienced and more developed player on their practice squad than the Bengals have. In fact, by replacing Lefevour with Robinson the Bengals have reset their 3rd QB development project to square one. Personally, I'd like to jumpstart that program if I could.

IMHO, neither player, Lefevour or Robinson, have the physical skills needed to be more than a backup QB in the NFL. By comparison, Canfield now has two NFL training camps under his belt, stands about 6'4" 220+, and has a live arm. Physically, he can make all of the throws. His weaknesses relate to questionable decision making and inexperience.....problems common to all 3rd QB across the NFL.

Frankly, I'm not married to the idea of signing Canfield and only mentioned him as an example of what I would be looking for. A young QB with the physical skills to be something more than a backup....who is available if a team were willing to guarantee a roster spot for a season. And yeah, when watching preseason games I thought Canfield jumped out a little. He caught my eye, and I said so. And now I'm saying it again.

Obviously the Bengals may feel differently than I do and may have no interest in Canfield at all. But by the same token I doubt any of you are prepared to argue the Bengals deliberately targeted a player like Lefevour or Robinson in the same way I targeted Canfield. Far more likely, they settled for both due to their ridiculously low investment costs.

And there's the rub because I strongly believe any rebuilding team should look to take greater advantage of the players available on other teams practice squads.....which is exactly where I felt Canfield would end up if the Saints, an established playoff team, chose to keep only 2 QB's on their 53-man roster. The don't want to get rid of Canfield, but they will risk losing him.

I'd like to take advantage of that.

[HairOnFire]

How many players worth the monicker franchise QB of the future are going to make it through waivers? Hair just likes Canfield, but Canfield is no Jake Locker or any other QB drafted in the early rounds of the draft. Canfield was a 7th rounder.

Exactly. Canfield is a bottom of the roster type exactly like all of the players who will be considered for the #3 QB role. In fact, I mention him not because I'm convinced he'll become the next Kurt Warner, but rather because he fits the profile just as perfectly as a Zac Robinson or a Dan Lefevour AND I happen to like him better.

[Spor_tees]

This is also Zac Robinson's second year in the NFL so he has just as much experience as Canfield as far as that goes. He is 6'3" and 218 lbs which isn't far off Canfield and he played in the Big 12, which is a power conference like the Pac 10 that Canfield played in.

Robinson is also more mobile than Canfield. The Bengals seem to be moving more towards QBs who are good on the run, both passing and running for yards. All the QBs they have seem to be able to roll out and throw with some accuracy. Gradkowski is the best. I am guessing this new offense is going to feature a lot of roll outs, naked bootlegs, and moving the pocket. That should help cut down on a lot of the sacks hopefully and give the receivers more time in their routes.

Here are Dalton, Robinson, and Gradkowski's College stat pages:

Dalton at TCU

Gradkowski at Toledo

Zac Robinson at Oklahoma State

Unbelievably Gradkowski did the least rushing in college, but looks the best throwing on the run in the NFL.

[HairOnFire]

a lot more teams went with 2 QBs this season because of new 46 man roster rule. So in theory there's more QBs out there than usual. I have no clue as to whether the next Kurt Warner remains available to a team that wants to open up a 53 man roster spot, but Bengals are certainly in a situation where it's prudent to keep an eye out.

There it is.

And best, far more succinctly put than I could have managed.

[HairOnFire]

This is also Zac Robinson's second year in the NFL so he has just as much experience as Canfield as far as that goes. He is 6'3" and 218 lbs which isn't far off Canfield and he played in the Big 12, which is a power conference like the Pac 10 that Canfield played in.

Robinson is also more mobile than Canfield. The Bengals seem to be moving more towards QBs who are good on the run, both passing and running for yards. All the QBs they have seem to be able to roll out and throw with some accuracy. Gradkowski is the best. I am guessing this new offense is going to feature a lot of roll outs, naked bootlegs, and moving the pocket. That should help cut down on a lot of the sacks hopefully and give the receivers more time in their routes.

Well said.

Best of all, you've finally defended Robinson using factors that go beyond the tired and familiar fan rant of...."He costs almost nothing and won't even take up a roster spot."

[Spor_tees]

a lot more teams went with 2 QBs this season because of new 46 man roster rule. So in theory there's more QBs out there than usual. I have no clue as to whether the next Kurt Warner remains available to a team that wants to open up a 53 man roster spot, but Bengals are certainly in a situation where it's prudent to keep an eye out.

There it is.

And best, far more succinctly put than I could have managed.

I would attribute the fact that so many teams went with only 2 QBs this year on their game day roster more to the fact there isn't enough NFL quality QBs out there. I dare ask you to go over the practice squads of the NFL and tell me the name of a guy that deserves to start or even be just a back up on an NFL roster right now. You can't, because there isn't any. Fact is, this isn't just my opinion, it's the opinion of at least 31 teams who passed over cut players and allowed them to be signed to a practice squad.

[Spor_tees]

Gerald Warren anyone?

Warren cut by the Pats.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Gerald Warren anyone?

Warren cut by the Pats.

And cut who?

[HairOnFire]

I dare ask you to go over the practice squads of the NFL and tell me the name of a guy that deserves to start or even be just a back up on an NFL roster right now. You can't, because there isn't any.

You do realize that you're asking me to do what I've already done, right?

Point blank, I've scanned the pracice squads of all NFL teams and hand picked the one player who I think best addresses the Bengals biggest remaining need. You haven't done that. Rather, due to your desire to use a roster spot on a position other than QB you now find yourself mocking the playing skills of all 256 players on practice squads throughout th NFL. None of them are worthy of consideration, you claim. Due diligence is for suckers, you imply. If they were any good they'd already be on a roster, right?

Frankly, a difference of opinion about any player is all well and good, but your rant still seems to be firmly rooted in disregarding any idea that involves a roster spot being used on any 3rd QB option. All of which seems remarkably shortsighted and self limiting on a team with a journeyman backup signed to a 2-year deal and a starting QB who has never played a single regular season snap.

[Sea Ray]

a lot more teams went with 2 QBs this season because of new 46 man roster rule. So in theory there's more QBs out there than usual. I have no clue as to whether the next Kurt Warner remains available to a team that wants to open up a 53 man roster spot, but Bengals are certainly in a situation where it's prudent to keep an eye out.

There it is.

And best, far more succinctly put than I could have managed.

I hear what you're saying and you make good points. I just think teams without a project like Dalton would be in a better position to do this. For example Seattle. Why in the world wouldn't they be looking over the Canfields of the league on practice squads?

[HairOnFire]

I hear what you're saying and you make good points. I just think teams without a project like Dalton would be in a better position to do this.

What teams have a more unsettled and unproven QB group than the Bengals? I promise you there aren't many. And if that's true then why shouldn't the Bengals consider using a roster spot on a QB to be developed? Isn't the position important enough to justify the extra attention shown? And if not, then why was it always done that way before? Did things really change so much overnight that teams like the Bengals can't consider adding another teams practice squad player?

[Spor_tees]

I hear what you're saying and you make good points. I just think teams without a project like Dalton would be in a better position to do this.

What teams have a more unsettled and unproven QB group than the Bengals? I promise you there aren't many. And if that's true then why shouldn't the Bengals consider using a roster spot on a QB to be developed? Isn't the position important enough to justify the extra attention shown? And if not, then why was it always done that way before? Did things really change so much overnight that teams like the Bengals can't consider adding another teams practice squad player?

I'll give you two reasons.

1. They can sign a veteran QB at a discounted and non-guaranteed price after week one.

2. The Bengals figure they can gauge what is to come on a week by week basis and if need be, they can sign some veteran QB off the scrap heap at anytime.

The Bengals do think they have the QB of the future in Dalton, and have another rookie or young guy standing over his shoulder isn't going to help the matter. They are playing it smart by using the third QB spot on another position, because what good is it going to do them to have some guy sitting on the sidelines holding a clip board that is only valuable if both your first and second string QB go down.

[HairOnFire]

.....because what good is it going to do them to have some guy sitting on the sidelines holding a clip board that is only valuable if both your first and second string QB go down.

Why do I find myself defending the wisdom of something that was the status quo only one year ago? Does having an extra LB really mean so much to you that you can't see the wisdom in developing a QB, especially on a team that doesn't have a proven starter?

As for your claim that Andy Dalton doesn't need another QB looking over his shoulder? STFU, please. Any QB bothered by the presence of a practice squader like Sean Canfield is going to freak just as badly the moment you tell him Zac Robinson is being fitted for stripes.

[Spor_tees]

.....because what good is it going to do them to have some guy sitting on the sidelines holding a clip board that is only valuable if both your first and second string QB go down.

Why do I find myself defending the wisdom of something that was the status quo only one year ago? Does having an extra LB really mean so much to you that you can't see the wisdom in developing a QB, especially on a team that doesn't have a proven starter?

As for your claim that Andy Dalton doesn't need another QB looking over his shoulder? STFU, please. Any QB bothered by the presence of a practice squader like Sean Canfield is going to freak just as badly the moment you tell him Zac Robinson is being fitted for stripes.

There is quite a bit of difference between a practice squad guy standing over your shoulder, and having another young prospect that you are grooming to be a possible future franchise QB the same as you are your second round QB. What good would it do to rattle the cage of a rookie QB that already has enough on his shoulders?

Your point about the linebackers a year ago, was a point I made with Derek, but after thinking about it, linebackers are put in a position where there is a lot more penchant for injury, and also there were 3 linebacker positions with one sole replacement for all three positions. The QB spot is a lot different because you are only backing up one guy, and with the way the league is now, if some guy sneezes on a QB he gets flagged and fined, so there is less likelyhood for injury. It isn't coincidence that the two longest streaks for games played in NFL history is owned by, you guessed it, quarterbacks.

[HairOnFire]

There is quite a bit of difference between a practice squad guy standing over your shoulder, and having another young prospect that you are grooming to be a possible future franchise QB the same as you are your second round QB. What good would it do to rattle the cage of a rookie QB that already has enough on his shoulders?

Spin it however you want but you're still talking about Andy Dalton being geeked or unduly pressured by the sudden appearance of another teams practice squad player.

Kinda silly, ehh?

[Spor_tees]

There is quite a bit of difference between a practice squad guy standing over your shoulder, and having another young prospect that you are grooming to be a possible future franchise QB the same as you are your second round QB. What good would it do to rattle the cage of a rookie QB that already has enough on his shoulders?

Spin it however you want but you're still talking about Andy Dalton being geeked or unduly pressured by the sudden appearance of another teams practice squad player.

Kinda silly, ehh?

You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

[kevnz]

Far out, if at any point in time this season we need a 3rd string QB we are screwed, screwed silly. No way do I think we should waste the roster spot on a 3rd qb if we have a vet behind Dalton. Besides, it's not like at any point we have done anything with any project 3rd string qb. Not that many teams ever have. Worse case scenario Dalton and The Other Guy get hurt in the same game. Hand offs all day, and we'd do that with a 3rd string scrub. Sign a washed up never was qb first thing Monday. But why the hell bother with a roster spot.