Overall Draft Grade

[HairOnFire]

FWIW I have a rotten cat named Ki-Jana and a dog named Takeo. And he's a good boy. (Oh yes he is.)

As for the $1000 bet about Chad staying a Bengal? I'm willing to put up every single Bengalzone dollar I've got that he's gone. Not tommorrow like Charlie Casserly suggested, but it's coming soon enough. Best guess is they'll wait until trades are possible, then put Chad on the block to the highest bidder.....no reserve. Motivated seller. All offers considered. Peanut offers welcome. Please call.

[HoosierCat]

Do you guys ever read through previous "Draft Grades" threads?

I was actually just doing that for '08. I think a lot of those A grades for Jerome Simpson would get taken down just a few levels...

FWIW Kiper gave us a C+ for that year, which strikes me as about right. Hopefully he's equally accuate about this year.

[Kazkal]

Do you guys ever read through previous "Draft Grades" threads?

I was actually just doing that for '08. I think a lot of those A grades for Jerome Simpson would get taken down just a few levels...

FWIW Kiper gave us a C+ for that year, which strikes me as about right. Hopefully he's equally accuate about this year.

I need find the threads probably made a ass of myself...Though last year I know I did pimp shipley

[James_Brooks21]

Good examination on everything except Andy Dalton, if you wouldn't have taken a quarterback in the second round than when would you? Please let me know when and who the hell you had in mind?

I've made my opinion on this well known, but I'll repeat it for you.

The bust rate for QBs in the mid 1st round is remarkable. The 2nd round is even worse. The only successful 2nd rounder I can think of is Drew Brees... and him, only after the Chargers had drafted his replacement.

I just think that with as many teams that needed a QB, if a guy fell to the 2nd round, it was because he wasn't really starter material. And if you're going to draft a back-up... I'd prefer McElroy in the 6th.

That said, Gruden was gushing about Dalton from the get-go... so while I think it's risky, it makes sense to give the OC the QB he wants. That's why I'm reasonably happy with the pick, despite it going against my instincts.

Bruh they didn't draft him to be a backup, Palmer said he's not coming back that's what they had to go off of. You must be a soap opera fan(sorry about the cancellations) because apparently you wanted that Palmer soap opera to play on all summer with us having Palmer lite, Lefevour and hold your horses Andy Dalton going into the season. Horrible! Risky is having those bums on your roster as possibly your starting quarterback. I heard them throw that stupid stat about second round quarterbacks out there during the draft, let me know what the percentage of sixth round quarterbacks that turned out good is? I guarantee you that Tom Brady is an anomoly, and damn well was not dumb enough to be like well no sixth round quarterback turned out good so that means I'm going to be garbage too. We are both cheering for the Bengals so I don't want to come off like I'm against you or something but hey we are human and just disagree about something. I guarantee both of us are now hoping that Dalton is one of the people that raises that percentage of success stories for second round quarterbacks. WHODEY BROTHER

[derekshank]

Bruh

I'm not your "Bruh." My brother isn't a condescending dick (ok... he is. but admitting that steps on my point).

they didn't draft him to be a backup, Palmer said he's not coming back that's what they had to go off of.

I'm not sure if you're illiterate, or just stupid. I never said anything about Palmer.

My point is that 2nd round QBs almost never have the necessary skill sets to succeed as starters in the NFL. And if you're going to draft a guy that won't succeed as a starter, I'd prefer to use a 2nd round pick on a player who will.

You must be a soap opera fan(sorry about the cancellations) because apparently you wanted that Palmer soap opera to play on all summer with us having Palmer lite, Lefevour and hold your horses Andy Dalton going into the season. Horrible! Risky is having those bums on your roster as possibly your starting quarterback. I heard them throw that stupid stat about second round quarterbacks out there during the draft, let me know what the percentage of sixth round quarterbacks that turned out good is? I guarantee you that Tom Brady is an anomoly, and damn well was not dumb enough to be like well no sixth round quarterback turned out good so that means I'm going to be garbage too.

Ok... answered my own question. Illiterate.

But I'll take my best crack at decoding that ridiculous rambling mess: It sounds like you think the best thing about the Dalton pick is the fact that we get to move on from the drama of the Palmer situation. And if that's the best reason for drafting Dalton, we're f**ked for another decade.

As to the Tom Brady point... that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If Dalton fails, it's not because he was drafted in the 2nd round. It's because he wasn't good enough. Hence the reason he was available in the 2nd round in the first place. Make sense?

We are both cheering for the Bengals so I don't want to come off like I'm against you or something but hey we are human and just disagree about something. I guarantee both of us are now hoping that Dalton is one of the people that raises that percentage of success stories for second round quarterbacks. WHODEY BROTHER

If you took the time to thoroughly read what I've been posting, you'd understand that I trust what Gruden sees in Dalton until I'm given reason to believe otherwise. For that reason, I don't expect Dalton to fail (hence the B- grade and not an F).

However... I do have my reservations about the fact that Dalton was available in the 2nd round. Hell, even 1st round QBs bust more than 50% of the time. Then add the sheer number of QB needy teams with the quantity of 1st round reaches at the QB position... and there is plenty reason enough to question. He was available in the 2nd round, because no other QB needy team thought he was worth taking ahead of us.

Despite that... I'm quite happy with the pick, and my reservations are rather minor, considering the statistics.

[Kazkal]

If Dalton had Blonde or Brown hair he would have been a 1st rounder(I'm kidding)

[TJJackson]

My point is that 2nd round QBs almost never have the necessary skill sets to succeed as starters in the NFL. And if you're going to draft a guy that won't succeed as a starter, I'd prefer to use a 2nd round pick on a player who will.

I concede your point that this is historically true. In fact, the fellow at NFLDraftCountdown had a similar idea, but he expanded the scope to the third round

/>http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/23qb/23qbs.php

However, I tightened up the focus a bit more. Of the listed quarterbacks, which ones were taken in the first 5 picks of round 2?

Drew Brees (great) and Kevin Kolb (decent)

So there's that

All I know is Dalton is a 4 year starter with elite intangibles and has produced bigtime, by any measure. I guess we will see how it goes. I hope they bring in a journeyman veteran as the starter so he has time to learn and not be thrown into the fire as a rookie

[cincyhokie]

Joe Montana, 3rd Round pick

Ken Anderson, 3rd round pick

Boomer Esiason, 2nd Round pick

We could go on and on....

For every first round success, there is a bust...and so on and so on. You're going to see what you choose to see.

Let's take it case by case. For now, we know Gruden has a hard on for the guy. Since he's leading the offense, that's all I care about.

[Kazkal]

Joe Montana, 3rd Round pick

Ken Anderson, 3rd round pick

Boomer Esiason, 2nd Round pick

We could go on and on....

For every first round success, there is a bust...and so on and so on. You're going to see what you choose to see.

Let's take it case by case. For now, we know Gruden has a hard on for the guy. Since he's leading the offense, that's all I care about.

in Recent years its pretty bad you look at around the NFL and most Stable QB's are 1st round picks and teams mianly looking in the 1st...

Teams that have 1st round QB's

1.)Falcons-Matt Ryan

2.)Buccaneers-Josh Freeman

3.)Rams

4.)Bengals(cough Carson before 2010 was alright)

5.)Greenbay-Aaron Rodgers

6.)Colts-Peyton Manning

7.)Steelers-Big Ben

8.)Broncos-Tim Tebow

9.)Ravens-Joe Flacco

10.)Lions-Mathew Stafford

11.)Jets-Mark Sanchez

12.)Eagles-Michael Vick(though FA Signing)

13.)Raiders-Jason Cambell(still 1st rounder though FA signing)

14.)Giants-Eli Manning

15.)Chargers-Phillip Rivers

16.)Redskins-Mcnabb (not for long)

17.)Bears-Jay Cutler

18.)49ers-Alex Smith(they do want him back for 1 more year )

Teams that took a 1st round QB this year

19.)Panthers

20.)Jaguars

21.)Vikings

22.)Titans

Teams that don't have a 1st round QB

23.)Patriots-Tom Brady

24.)Saints-Drew Brees

25.)Seahawks-Matt Hassleback

26.)Browns Colt Mccoy

27.)Bills-Ryan Fitzpatrick

28.)Texans-Matt Schaub Gave up a arm and a leg for him

29.)Chiefs-Matt Cassle -See Texans

30.)Cowboys-Tony Romo-I'm sure their next QB will be a 1st rounder

31.)Dolphins-Well they will be taking our first round Golden boy.

32.)Cardinals

So in todays NFL in a QB driven league it does seem like most time if you want a QB you need grab him in the 1st round...Or trade a arm and a leg to another team that developed one...But Bengals were willing trade up in to 1st for Dalton so it kinda makes him like a 1st rounder

[derekshank]

Of the listed quarterbacks, which ones were taken in the first 5 picks of round 2?

This is a valid point... and one worth looking into. So... I did.

The first 5 picks of the 2nd round seemed like far too small of a sample size... so I grew it slightly:

From the 20th pick of the 1st round to the 10th pick of the 2nd round. I went back to 1996:

'96 - None

'97 - None

'98 - None

'99 - None

'00 - None

'01 - Drew Brees

'02 - Patrick Ramsey

'03 - Kyle Boller and Rex Grossman

'04 - JP Losman

'05 - Aaron Rodgers

'06 - None

'07 - Kevin Kolb and John Beck

'08 - None

'09 - None

'10 - Tim Tebow

That's 9 QBs within that window. Two that are great (Brees and Rodgers), one that is going to bring good compensation (Kolb)... and the rest I wouldn't want anywhere near my team. (Interestingly, Rodgers and Kolb sat for several years, and Brees didn't find success until much later on.)

So that's a 33% success rate. Not a ringing endorsement... and yet, I like the pick. Guess I'm a homer.

[wpeldios]

Do you guys ever read through previous "Draft Grades" threads?

Interesting and fun. Reading draft reactions from the past based on what we know now.

My love for Dunlap and Shipley has been vindicated. My dislike of MJ and Bernard Scott has shown to be uninformed... and my love for Andre Smith appears moronic.

Also funny to see how almost nobody liked the Andrew Whitworth pick back in the day. Looking forward to reading this thread a year from now.

Im going to have to check those out. My love for Shipley last year looks great as well. And I am taking partial vindication for not liking Gresham in bratkowski's system. Though I will admit Gresham looked better than I had expected.

And in the past some of my loves havent turned out as well as Shipley...Im looking at you Marvin White

[ArmyBengal]

I'm looking forward to seeing what UDFA's we could get into camp, if there is one.

I'm over it, but still can't figure out why some of these guys weren't better options.

There were some really interesting players that went undrafted.

Deandre McDaniel, Safety (don't know how he went undrafted)

John Clay, RB (Benson insurance on the cheap)

Dane Sanzenbacher, WR (perfer over Whalen)

Mario Harvey, OLB (BEAST of a pass rusher with crazy speed)

Deunta Williams, DB (wonder about his injury, but love this guy)

Kai Forbath, K (I really think he would compete for the job)

Not to beat a dead horse and I know all the teams passed on these guys, but I fail to see how some of these guys weren't viewed as better options to who we drafted late. There are probably a couple more to add to that list, but there you go. I think it's a strong UNFA class. I hope they are doing their homework since they have extra time.

[cHaD711Johnson]

I'm looking forward to seeing what UDFA's we could get into camp, if there is one.

I'm over it, but still can't figure out why some of these guys weren't better options.

There were some really interesting players that went undrafted.

Deandre McDaniel, Safety (don't know how he went undrafted)

John Clay, RB (Benson insurance on the cheap)

Dane Sanzenbacher, WR (perfer over Whalen)

Mario Harvey, OLB (BEAST of a pass rusher with crazy speed)

Deunta Williams, DB (wonder about his injury, but love this guy)

Kai Forbath, K (I really think he would compete for the job)

Not to beat a dead horse and I know all the teams passed on these guys, but I fail to see how some of these guys weren't viewed as better options to who we drafted late. There are probably a couple more to add to that list, but there you go. I think it's a strong UNFA class. I hope they are doing their homework since they have extra time.

Darren Evans from VTech is definitely worth a look IMO. If he's healthy.

[TJJackson]

Cant sign UDCFAs due to the lockout and no CBA

this is why it was extra important to get the guys you HAD to have - like a young K and a power RB - with an actual draft pick

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, I'm aware they can't bring in the UDFA's yet, but that time will come and when it does, there are players to be had.

I also agree they should have thought about that before taking a guy like Finley in the 7th.

I'm not all angry and sh*tty over this, but it just doesn't come across as the smartest approach.

[derekshank]

Kai Forbath, K (I really think he would compete for the job)

Yeah, I'm surprised to see that he went undrafted. He was very good (but I guess he's not very effective on kickoffs).

I wonder if the Bengals didn't take him late in the 7th because Nugent's recovery is going well... or if it's the fact that Nugent played so well after barely making the team (meaning there are plenty of capable kickers to be had).

[TJJackson]

UDCFAs may not be as available as you might imagine - the UFL is snatching them up today

These UDCFAs have a dilemna - if they sign with the UFL, they wont get to play or practice with an NFL team will the end of the UFL season, and the NFL team will have to pay a substantial fee to the UFL to acquire their services

If they don't sign with the UFL, they rot on the vine until the NFL gets it s**t ogether

[Walrus]

Been wanting to chime in here. In a nutshell, I agree with everyone else of the opinion that it looks like a pretty good draft. I like Green/Dalton and hopefully will grow to "love" them after I see them on the field (although unlike many I haven't given up on LeFever and expect he'll be in the mix -- unless the team makes good on the rumors in regards bringing in a Vet like Hasselbeck).

I have to dock the grade a bit on the 3rd round pick. On one hand, I'm glad they spent a high pick on a defensive player whose express purpose will be to amp up the passrush. On the other hand, word is that the Bengals actually preferred RB Daniel Thomas who went to the Dolphins shortly before -- which brings back painful memories of missing out on David Harris and having to settle for Kenny Irons in '07. Yeah, I'm bitter.

Anyways, it wouldn't have been a big deal if the team had been able to land a feature back later on, which they should have been able to do. But they didn't. Now we're in a position where we are relying on being able to bring Benson back. Now, I appreciate the guy and think he does a great job for this team -- and would've wanted them to at least try to bring him back no matter what -- but IMO we needed to bring in some fresh blood this year after his disappointing season last year, if only to provide depth.

The 4th and 5th rounders I like as well -- esp interior OL at 4. My only complaint here is that I was looking for a FB at some point and this would have been the time to make that happen. I hope Gruden doesn't utilize the fullback in his system because we haven't had any luck with the string of chumps we've utilized in that capacity for the past few seasons. Unfortunately, it seems like most of the bigger RBs/FBs were drafted in the 4th round this year. Sometimes those guys hang around a bit longer.

The 6th and 7th rounders are meh. Out of those 3 picks it would've been nice to bring in a big back, hard-hitting safety or big lineman instead of 3 players that don't really seem to address need or provide significant upside.

As a side note, it seems like our draft overall was on the "small" side, as in small in stature (with the exception of AJ Green). Wish we had come away with one or two bruisers.

Overall, I give 'em a B and am optimistic that will turn out to be a low grade.

[BengalPimp]

I'm weighing the decision to name a cat versus the decision to name a son

Hmm

This may be a little too personal, but i took a crap earlier, and it STUNK UP THE PLACE SO BAD, I had no choice but to name it Chad Johnson.

[BengalPimp]

Kai Forbath, K (I really think he would compete for the job)

Yeah, I'm surprised to see that he went undrafted. He was very good (but I guess he's not very effective on kickoffs).

I wonder if the Bengals didn't take him late in the 7th because Nugent's recovery is going well... or if it's the fact that Nugent played so well after barely making the team (meaning there are plenty of capable kickers to be had).

Problem is, he had a pretty bad Senior year, was shankin' a lot from between 40-49 yards (6-6 as a Junior, 6-11 as a Senior).......I really wanted him after watching him play quite a bit as a Junior, stud one year, forgotten the next......that's the way it goes sometimes.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, Forbath was a beast after his junior year and then his senior season cost him getting drafted at all.

Hennery from Nebraska has a monster season and goes in the 4th.

Hopefully Nugent comes back healthy.

[TJJackson]

i took a crap earlier, and it STUNK UP THE PLACE SO BAD, I had no choice but to name it Chad Johnson.

Niiiiice

But Chad Johnson was an outstanding WR.

I think you meant you named it Chad Ochostinko

Was a Jeff Blake action figured involved in any way during the abovenamed process?

[HairOnFire]

Yeah, Forbath was a beast after his junior year and then his senior season cost him getting drafted at all.

Hennery from Nebraska has a monster season and goes in the 4th.

Hopefully Nugent comes back healthy.

Prior to the draft I read an article about local Los Angeles area draft prospects who might be drafted, including Forbath. Nutshelled, Forbath had been told by NFL evaluators that his draft grade was 6th/UDFA and did NOT expect to be drafted. As a result Forbath was said to be already evaluating which teams he might be able to try out for as an UDFA and win a roster spot.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, Forbath was a beast after his junior year and then his senior season cost him getting drafted at all.

Hennery from Nebraska has a monster season and goes in the 4th.

Hopefully Nugent comes back healthy.

Prior to the draft I read an article about local Los Angeles area draft prospects who might be drafted, including Forbath. Nutshelled, Forbath had been told by NFL evaluators that his draft grade was 6th/UDFA and did NOT expect to be drafted. As a result Forbath was said to be already evaluating which teams he might be able to try out for as an UDFA and win a roster spot.

Never hurts to have a kicking competition when your only kicker is coming off knee reconstruction eh ??

[BengalPimp]

i took a crap earlier, and it STUNK UP THE PLACE SO BAD, I had no choice but to name it Chad Johnson.

Niiiiice

But Chad Johnson was an outstanding WR.

I think you meant you named it Chad Ochostinko

Was a Jeff Blake action figured involved in any way during the abovenamed process?

Correction, Ochostinko, and my Jeff Blake action figure is locked away in a Safe, for fear that CentralOhioBengal would steal it and do what he did to Walzav's.....