I'm back

[HairOnFire]

At #4 who answers that question better ??

As much as it pains me to say, QB and WR are tops. I simply don't like the QB option and Green is the only real answer.

I would LOVE to argue for Robert Quinn, but again, you already have Marvin stating he's not looking to get rid of an Odom or Geathers until Dunlap shows more productivity.

If true then I'd say Marvin Lewis is in serious danger of mishandling Carlos Dunlap for a 2nd year in a row. Because, point blank, Dunlap is already far more productive AND consistent than either veteran player and has IMHO not only EARNED a starters role but could be elite if complimented with a better DE bookend.

As for the other options mentioned, Odom can't stay healthy enough to merit his salary or further consideration as a starter. As for Geathers, even those who support keeping him have to acknowledge that he offers almost nothing as a pass rusher. So it's all well and good if Marvin wants to keep Geathers and Odom, instead of dumping them because of their salaries, but Lewis is sniffin' glue if thinks either of those players is more productive than Dunlap, now or later.

Finally, I would be remiss if I didn't point out how I have slowly trimmed things down to a two-man short list and yeah...Robert Quinn is on it.

[alleycat]

If not for MB's love of offense and skill players, I'd say Quinn would be the no-brainer pick given the options.

Although I'd be curious, Hair, what you'd think about Dareus in the (extremely unlikely) event he'd be available...I just can't get the images of him during his healthy sophomore year out of my mind...

[TJJackson]

Dunlap seems quiet. We need a guy who can talk it and back it up.

I much prefer production over talk

If you prefer talk, I feel sorry for you.

[ArmyBengal]

At #4 who answers that question better ??

As much as it pains me to say, QB and WR are tops. I simply don't like the QB option and Green is the only real answer.

I would LOVE to argue for Robert Quinn, but again, you already have Marvin stating he's not looking to get rid of an Odom or Geathers until Dunlap shows more productivity.

If true then I'd say Marvin Lewis is in serious danger of mishandling Carlos Dunlap for a 2nd year in a row. Because, point blank, Dunlap is already far more productive AND consistent than either veteran player and has IMHO not only EARNED a starters role but could be elite if complimented with a better DE bookend.

As for the other options mentioned, Odom can't stay healthy enough to merit his salary or further consideration as a starter. As for Geathers, even those who support keeping him have to acknowledge that he offers almost nothing as a pass rusher. So it's all well and good if Marvin wants to keep Geathers and Odom, instead of dumping them because of their salaries, but Lewis is sniffin' glue if thinks either of those players is more productive than Dunlap, now or later.

Finally, I would be remiss if I didn't point out how I have slowly trimmed things down to a two-man short list and yeah...Robert Quinn is on it.

There was a whole article about marvin making the comment I mentioned above, but I don't have enough time or desire to sift back through the .com site to find the piece. I may be a bit fuzzy in the wording but if it wasn't "productivity", it was "consistency" from Dunlap. Either way, I agree that Marvin is pissing up a rope in that regard and finding a suitable bookend on the other side would pay HUGE dividends.

I made the comment not long ago about if there is real concern that JJoe might not be back and wondering what they are going to do at the CB spot moving forward, wouldn't it be best for all concerned on the defensive front to add another true pass rusher that will also assist whomever they so desire to trot out in the CB spot ??

Yes, it's a two man list at #4 (for who I think will be there) and Quinn or Green are it.

[cHaD711Johnson]

What has AJ Green done to make you think that he's a diva?

Also, you're silly if you think that Peko wouldn't start on other teams.

Fairley isn't a sure fire as Green is IMO and getting a top WR for the future is a more glaring need. This draft is deep at DL.

[Whur CHad At?]

Drafting a receiver at #4 is the reason why this team will be drafting again next season in the top 5. It is not an glaring need. Quarterback is a glaring need. Both lines are glaring needs.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Both lines are glaring needs.

I feel come the #4 pick in the upcoming draft Newton will be gone, and Fairley will be there. IMO at that time he will be the BPA, and you have to go with him.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Both lines are glaring needs.

I feel come the #4 pick in the upcoming draft Newton will be gone, and Fairley will be there. IMO at that time he will be the BPA, and you have to go with him.

Fairley isn't the BPA over AJ Green.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Both lines are glaring needs.

I feel come the #4 pick in the upcoming draft Newton will be gone, and Fairley will be there. IMO at that time he will be the BPA, and you have to go with him.

Fairley isn't the BPA over AJ Green.

That's your opinion and duly noted, but I think Fairley is a better pick at #4. I should have made it more clear who was my BPA at that point.

[ArmyBengal]

Let me say it again...

When the members here stop thinking they know what will be best for this team and realize you have to look at things through the eyes of this coaching staff and organization, you will have a better idea of what is going to happen in the draft. It doesn't make my opinion the correct one, but I feel it's far closer to reality than spitballing about who we think is done and should be replaced.

[HairOnFire]

Both lines are glaring needs.

I feel come the #4 pick in the upcoming draft Newton will be gone, and Fairley will be there. IMO at that time he will be the BPA, and you have to go with him.

Fairley isn't the BPA over AJ Green.

That's your opinion and duly noted, but I think Fairley is a better pick at #4.

But it isn't just cHad's opinion. It's a consensus opinion. Which may prove nothing, I admit. However, because it's a consensus opinion there's simply no need for AJ Green backers to defend their choice at all.

Furthermore, in rankings of players regardless of position AJ Green is typically ranked as one of the Top3 prospects available in the entire draft. Nick Fairley no longer is. In fact, he's rarely mentioned as worthy of a Top5 selection anymore, his character and work ethic have both been openly questioned, and after closer analysis Fairley's playing skill and technique were heavily criticized. So much so that the previously mentioned Mike Lombardi recently claimed that Fairley had not only been passed and lapped by Dareus as the top DT, but also....numerous teams now ranked Luiget higher than Fairley. And perhaps more importantly, Lombardi claimed several teams have taken Fairley completely off their draft boards due to concerns over his character.

Meanwhile, Carolina continues to blow smoke about drafting AJ Green first overall. (Just saying.)

To be blunt, the whole rant about a WR not being worthy of the #4 pick is total bulls**t, and the only people you here using it in the Bengals example are those who argue in favor of overdrafting a player who plays a position of greater need. And for those who are interested, there's the proverbial "RubOnFire"....posters and draftniks arguing in favor of a certain position while completely ignoring the character and personalities involved.

[TJJackson]

posters and draftniks arguing in favor of a certain position while completely ignoring the character and personalities involved.

I feel that the above statement all but demands my highly-reasoned three (four?) word rebuttal:

GIMME A LINEMAN!

[walzav29]

The Bengals can't build around a wide receiver.

David Verser

Eddie Brown

Peter Warrick

We've had great receivers. Look at last season. That doesn't work. The lines. The Bengals have to take a different approach. I'm not saying the Bengals need a guy who can talk. I'm saying the Bengals defense needs a player who can play, and play with swagger. Like Ray Lewis, Sapp, LT, Greg Lloyd, James Harrison. Intimidation. Did you watch the BCS with Oregon vs Auburn? Fairley was DOMINANT. He was all over the place. You want to build from the inside out, not the outside in. Remember. We deal with the Steelers and Ravens. The Steelers dumped Santonio Holmes like it was nothing. They ended up in the SB. Why? Defense!!! Running game! The same thing they do every year.

[ArmyBengal]

The Steelers WR's would like to talk to you.

Wallace had 60 receptions for over 1200 yards and 10 TD's

Between Wallace, Ward, and Miller (their TE), they had over 2500 yards receiving and 17 TD's.

There's not a true #1 WR on our team right now and I don't care how much you liked what Simpson did at the end of last season, you don't pin all your hopes for the coming season on him. Green would add that for the WR corps. Again, I agree with building form the inside out, but I don't think the team is going to do that at this point and I can't even say they should.

[HairOnFire]

The Bengals can't build around a wide receiver.

Nor can they ignore the position, especially when a near perfect WR prospect, whose value perfectly matched their draft position, is expected to be available. Furthermore, no building project should be based upon knowingly overdrafting a prospect simply because of the position they play.

We've had great receivers. Look at last season. That doesn't work.

More accurately, building an offense around selfish divas doesn't work, and any serious rebuilding project being considered should be based upon ridding the team of those types of players as quickly as possible. And of all of the players available in the coming draft selecting AJ Green most easily allows the Bengals to instantly rid itself of the cancer that Chad has become.

David Verser

Eddie Brown

Peter Warrick

Dan Wilkinson

John Copeland

Justin Smith

I'm not saying the Bengals need a guy who can talk. I'm saying the Bengals defense needs a player who can play, and play with swagger.

Yeah, but there's no way I'd deliberately overlook a prospect who may be the best in the entire draft simply because a raw but gifted DT prospect is more outgoing and offers better sound bites. Rather, I'll consider that player only if he's a better football player.

Did you watch the BCS with Oregon vs Auburn? Fairley was DOMINANT. He was all over the place.

He had a great game as I recall. But I also recall how poorly Oregon's O-line played overall, how badly it was outcoached and outschemed, and how Fairley made most of his big plays when completely unblocked. So for me the biggest game Fairley ever played, and a far better example of him flashing NFL skills, was against Alabama.

You want to build from the inside out, not the outside in.

Yeah, in a perfect world that's exactly what I want to do. But it's not a perfect world, as evidenced by Chad Ochocinco still wearing stripes or Carson Palmer gradually losing his nuts. Or further evidenced by a draft whose talent doesn't match up perfectly with the Bengals needs.

[TJJackson]

More accurately, building an offense around selfish divas doesn't work, and any serious rebuilding project being considered should be based upon ridding the team of those types of players as quickly as possible.

this, and also

there's no way I'd deliberately overlook a prospect who may be the best in the entire draft simply because a raw but gifted DT prospect is more outgoing and offers better sound bites. Rather, I'll consider that player only if he's a better football player

this

That said, the only argument I like for taking Green is it makes it easier to rid ourselves of OchoDroppo.

I'm not a fan of the supposed value charts.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think the charts have much to do with it. I think it has to do with the FACT that Green is a better player coupled with being a safer pick than almost any other player that fills a need for this team. That is unless you really think Simpson and Caldwell are the long term answer.

I could certainly see Dareus in stripes, but he won't make it to #4. Fairley, while appearing to be a very attractive pick, has his fair share of issues and concerns that he brings with him. My personal favorite is Quinn, but we are talking about a guy who missed his whole last season and then got nicked up a little.

Bottomline is, Green not only is a better overall player, he doesn't have injury concerns and outside of selling something that belonged to him (stupid NCAA rule) he has no character concerns. I have yet to see someone give valid reason to think he's going to be a diva type. Green fills a need regardless of if anyone here agrees. We have no #1 WR on this roster.

So while I would love Dareus or Quinn, Green actually makes the most sense UNLESS they are able to trade out of the #4 spot.

[alleycat]

The Bengals can't build around a wide receiver.

Nor can they ignore the position, especially when a near perfect WR prospect, whose value perfectly matched their draft position, is expected to be available. Furthermore, no building project should be based upon knowingly overdrafting a prospect simply because of the position they play.

We've had great receivers. Look at last season. That doesn't work.

More accurately, building an offense around selfish divas doesn't work, and any serious rebuilding project being considered should be based upon ridding the team of those types of players as quickly as possible. And of all of the players available in the coming draft selecting AJ Green most easily allows the Bengals to instantly rid itself of the cancer that Chad has become.

David Verser

Eddie Brown

Peter Warrick

Dan Wilkinson

John Copeland

Justin Smith

I'm not saying the Bengals need a guy who can talk. I'm saying the Bengals defense needs a player who can play, and play with swagger.

Yeah, but there's no way I'd deliberately overlook a prospect who may be the best in the entire draft simply because a raw but gifted DT prospect is more outgoing and offers better sound bites. Rather, I'll consider that player only if he's a better football player.

Did you watch the BCS with Oregon vs Auburn? Fairley was DOMINANT. He was all over the place.

He had a great game as I recall. But I also recall how poorly Oregon's O-line played overall, how badly it was outcoached and outschemed, and how Fairley made most of his big plays when completely unblocked. So for me the biggest game Fairley ever played, and a far better example of him flashing NFL skills, was against Alabama.

You want to build from the inside out, not the outside in.

Yeah, in a perfect world that's exactly what I want to do. But it's not a perfect world, as evidenced by Chad Ochocinco still wearing stripes or Carson Palmer gradually losing his nuts. Or further evidenced by a draft whose talent doesn't match up perfectly with the Bengals needs.

I'd be fine with taking Green in the 1st and clearing the team of douchebags. As long as we get Marvin Austin in the 2nd

[alleycat]

And, for the record, after watching Fairley last night with Gruden and tonight with Eisen, I see the epitome of a guy who I don't trust. Just his demeanor. Saying yes yes yes before he's even heard the damn question. And I don't see the fire burning underneath like I did with Dareus. I could be wrong but...

[TJJackson]

unless you really think Simpson and Caldwell are the long term answer.

Don't forget Shipley and Gresham. With a decent qb and a much better OL, yes, this group will be fine.

I could certainly see Dareus in stripes, but he won't make it to #4. Fairley, while appearing to be a very attractive pick, has his fair share of issues and concerns that he brings with him. My personal favorite is Quinn, but we are talking about a guy who missed his whole last season and then got nicked up a little.

I'm more interested in a star OL, but a bookend to team with Dunlap will be good as well

Green....has no character concerns.

Well, he did have a serious lapse in judgment that led to a 4 game suspension, no? We're not talking Chris Henry level infractions here, absolutely, but it cant be called nothing. If he even has the slightest hint of diva in him, I want nothing to do with him.

UNLESS they are able to trade out of the #4 spot.

There's my fondest hope right there. First pick after the tradedown, gimme a (you know the rest)

[ArmyBengal]

unless you really think Simpson and Caldwell are the long term answer.

Don't forget Shipley and Gresham. With a decent qb and a much better OL, yes, this group will be fine.

No, not a single one of them is a #1 WR. Simpson has been to stupid to take the field, fumbles while running, and can't be given the keys to the Lumina yet. Caldwell, while after being named the "Golden Child" heading into the season, couldn't beat out anyone and had a horrible season.

Green....has no character concerns.

Well, he did have a serious lapse in judgment that led to a 4 game suspension, no? We're not talking Chris Henry level infractions here, absolutely, but it cant be called nothing. If he even has the slightest hint of diva in him, I want nothing to do with him.

No again, unless you call a "serious lapse in judgement" a stupid NCAA rule that says you can't sell something that belongs to you because it has school logos on it. Should he have followed that stupid rule ?? Sure he should have, but lets not make it more than what it is and it's not like he takes plays off, is unwilling to block, or go across the middle.

UNLESS they are able to trade out of the #4 spot.

There's my fondest hope right there. First pick after the tradedown, gimme a (you know the rest)

Agreed with the trade down. Funny thing about it though is, a trade down could VERY easily result in the next best WR being taken by the Bengals in Julio Jones. Wouldn't that be about a bitch ??

[TJJackson]

No, not a single one of them is a #1 WR

Don't need a true number 1 if the OL is strong enough

Also, plenty of teams have done well with good tight end and/or possession receiver work. Steve Largent was a possession receiver, for example. And no, I am not proclaiming any of our players the next coming of Steve Largent - instead, I am saying the that success is possible without the traditional 1 and 2 mix

a stupid NCAA rule

There are plenty of stupid rules in this world

Rules like not taking certain drugs and showing up on time for meetings

Stupid or not, one follows those rules or one pays the price -- and in the case of an NFL player, the team and the fans also pay the price

That said, I agree that this is the smallest character blemish I have ever noted in a player who could be said to have a blemish. As I said, he ain't no Chris Henry.

Agreed with the trade down. Funny thing about it though is, a trade down could VERY easily result in the next best WR being taken by the Bengals in Julio Jones. Wouldn't that be about a bitch ??

I'm fine with Julio Jones in a lower slot, as long as we ALSO get a top quality lineman to boot in the trade down

[HairOnFire]

I'd be fine with taking Green in the 1st and clearing the team of douchebags. As long as we get Marvin Austin in the 2nd

Just to be clear, I don't hate the idea of drafting Fairley at #4. But I don't love it either, and there are several options I like better, including Green.

As for the nugget about Austin, I think it touches on the reason why so many are against the idea of using the 4th overall pick on a WR. That being, there's a very high probability the 2nd round pick will be designated for QB....further delaying upgrades on the O-line and on defense. And yeah, that sucks. But acknowledging the suckage doesn't suddenly make Green a lesser prospect or Fairley a better one. Furthermore, nobody has to sell me on the idea of continuing to select the BPA, regardless of position played, in the 2nd round.

Nutshelled, I believe this team is facing a rebuild that will take at least two years. In fact, that might be the new best case scenario for the Bengals. Regardless, there simply aren't enough draft picks available in a single year to fix what's been broken....so I'm not interested in get rich quick schemes. Rather, I spread my rebuilding plans over two years, and I start by selecting BPA in every round.....with one possible exception.

That being, at some point in this draft...or in the next one...it seems likely this team will overdraft a QB prospect. But let's all agree to call that the exception that proves the rule and get on with the rebuild. BPA.

[ArmyBengal]

If the o-line is strong enough is a good point and I just don't see getting one in this draft early on that would make a difference.

Whitworth isn't going anywhere at LT.

All of the interior could be upgraded.

RT is a huge question mark with Smith and Collins.

That being the case, there are no RT's or interior linemen that should be taken that early.

Didn't we learn that with Smith ?? I think that could be addressed later.

I simply don't the argument on passing up on who is widely considered one of the best (if not THE best) player in the draft to reach for another position of much less value.

The whole reason I make this point is that I really don't see there being much chance to trade out of the #4 spot. There is to much uncertainty and obviously no rookie pay scale to curb the hit teams will take. With that thought in mind, NO o-lineman makes sense.

Sure rules are rules and after 21 years in the Army, I am all about maintaining discipline, but can also acknowledge when something is not exactly the smartest of things and Green taking a 4 game hit for selling his own possessions was a bit much. It was a game LESS than all the illegal benefit crap the Buckeye players got suspended for. Yeah, no Chris Henry...

Trade down would be great, but I don't really see it. Always hopeful though.