Our Great QB, Palmer

[combatbengal]

Riddle me this! Palmer threw during the off season to TO. He had the entire training camp with his WR’s and now five weeks of the season and yet he’s still not throwing to his capability! Big Ben was suspended for four weeks and came out today smoking! Granted he played the Browns, but then the Browns did beat us. There was no rust excuses, no not in synch excuses, no new WR’s excuses. So WFT is our problem? I don’t like Big Ben or the Steelers but he came to play. As a matter of fact, he comes to play week in and week out. We never know what Bengal team will show up from week to week.

[volcom69]

Really another Palmer thread! Look i understand where you are coming from Palmer struggles, but so does this whole team.

What if his WR holds on to the balls that hit them in there hands, maybe we would have won on sunday?

What if the o-line would form a nice pocket for him, or at least give him sometime to throw. Alot of times he has to get rid of the ball before he wants to, or he gets his arm hit, and the ball dosnt go where he wants.

How about the WR run the routes that are called, or actully get on the same page with Palmer.

Yes Carson struggles, but its not just him. Right now he is what we have, so i will continue to root for him this year, and whatever happens happens. Lets make the team around him play better, then see if Palmer is really bad!!!

[cincyhokie]

Take from this what you will:

6 of the 9 TD's have come while in the no huddle offense. 7 passing TD's and 2 rushing TD's. You might be able to take from that simple stat that the Bengals are more effective in an offense in which Palmer 1) calls the plays 2) runs the passing game without as many timing routes.

Palmer is not a great QB but I don't think that Brat's style of offense fits him or the receivers in his system.

That being said, Palmer still has to perform better and be more consistent. The Bengals HAVE to run the ball better. Their blocking is much better in the running game.

Brat isn't going anywhere and neither is Palmer. Someone has to step up given the circumstances and it needs to be Palmer. Brat has to commit more to the running game. What they're doing currently is not working and with all my support of the up tempo and no huddle, it's apparent that this team cannot run the no huddle all the time. This is where the running game has to be a bigger part of the offense.

[ArmyBengal]

I just find it hard to believe this team is two 3 points losses to both Cleveland and Tampa Bay from being a 4-1 team, 2-0 in the division, and tied for first with the Steelers. It's a shame when you look at it from that standpoint. That being said, we had 3 of those games last year with Denver, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore, only we won two of them.

I don't put it all on Carson and while I can READILY admit he needs to improve his consistency, it hard to expect much when we can acknowledge he doesn't do well with Brat as the OC. I absolutely HATE our o-line to this point, I don't like the undisciplined play of our WR's, and the penalties are simply ridiculous.

The coaches all seem clueless and at this point in time, Zimmer is also included in that opinion.

Nothing is going right for this team right now.

Even though I'm disappointed with them right now, not being able to watch them since it was their bye week SUCKED BALLS !!!

Just goes to show how even a bad product is better than no product at all.

[combatbengal]

The funny thing is that Marvin said in an interview before our Bye week, that they we're going to focus on the young guys. Getting them more snaps in practice. What about focusing on the starters and fixing the penalties, the timing of WR routes, the sense of urgency on the field, the lack of discipline, the off line, fundamentals of tackling, our special team coverage’s, clock management, our play calling, red zone operations. Instead of those things, we’ll be focusing on the water boy and making sure that he has the proper temperature of H2O on the sidelines, the grounds keeping making sure that our bench heating system is working properly for the cold games, evaluating the concession prices to make sure that the team is able to receive max $$ on sales, and ol yea, the 3rd string guys that don’t get to see any action. Going to be a long season and yes I hope I’m wrong!!

[combatbengal]

Got what you're saying, but the bottom line is Carson is the commander on that field and it's his responsibility to ensure that all the plays are ran properly. Watch him on the sidelines after he's gone three and out or thrown a INT. He goes to the bench, puts his helmet up, graps his ball cap and sits there. There is no pulling the guys to the side, talking to them about making penalties, dropping balls, missing blocking assignments, etc. It's like he really doesn't care if we win or not. I agree with you on the other aspects of the team, but Palmer has to step up his game. The team is only going to play at the level that their leader performs at. If substandard performanace is acceptable then that is what you'll get.

Really another Palmer thread! Look i understand where you are coming from Palmer struggles, but so does this whole team.

What if his WR holds on to the balls that hit them in there hands, maybe we would have won on sunday?

What if the o-line would form a nice pocket for him, or at least give him sometime to throw. Alot of times he has to get rid of the ball before he wants to, or he gets his arm hit, and the ball dosnt go where he wants.

How about the WR run the routes that are called, or actully get on the same page with Palmer.

Yes Carson struggles, but its not just him. Right now he is what we have, so i will continue to root for him this year, and whatever happens happens. Lets make the team around him play better, then see if Palmer is really bad!!!

[Stripes]

Watch him on the sidelines after he's gone three and out or thrown a INT. He goes to the bench, puts his helmet up, graps his ball cap and sits there. There is no pulling the guys to the side, talking to them about making penalties, dropping balls, missing blocking assignments, etc. It's like he really doesn't care if we win or not.

Carson has had his struggles this season, but complaints like those above strike me as completely silly. I mean no offense, combatbengal, but the very things you're begging him to do are things he DOES do every freaking week! Hell, CBS pans over to him pep talking the offensive line all the time. He was a big player in calming down Gresham when he freaked out (soon before catching a touchdown). Owens and Chad are constantly jabbing with him on the sideline, and thus far they've both been very positive with him.

There's one thing Carson definitely does well regardless of his actual play and that's lead. The rest of the offense always says it. Whitworth said earlier this week that [not verbatim]: "There is no quarterback in the league I'd rather be protecting than Carson Palmer, that's how much he means to this team." Bobbie Williams has offered similar sentiments.

I'm not saying Carson should be free of criticism. He's having his worst season ever as a decision maker through five games, and behind such a shaky line that can be disastrous. Let's keep the complaints relevant to his actual weaknesses though.

[ArmyBengal]

Said it before and will say it again, there are things Carson appears he needs to improve on.

That being said, there are QB's out there that have had bad seasons and come back to do just fine.

There are QB's right now that some people say are better than Carson, but doing as bad or worse than him.

Sorry, but even with recognizing the need to improve, he's one of the players I like for his leadership.

Address some of the other issues plaguing this team and then I might listen more intently.

[HairOnFire]

Big Ben was suspended for four weeks and came out today smoking! Granted he played the Browns, but then the Browns did beat us. There was no rust excuses, no not in synch excuses, no new WR’s excuses. So WFT is our problem?

Like many of us I watched the Steeler/Brown this weekend. And because so many of us found ourselves watching that game I'm going to assume many of you will be able to recall a play from that game that I believe could never happen in an overly complex timing based Bob Bratkowski built Clockwork Orange passing game. And while it's just a single play I think it offers plenty of proof of exactly WTF our problem is.

Ready?

A Steeler WR running a crossing route breaks off his route as soon as he crosses behind the coverage of the Brownie safety. In short, he stops and "hides" until the safety commits to the inside or outside. About one beat later the safety does just that by committing to the outside. For the record, the safety doesn't actually break hard to the outside...he simply shifts his weight towards that direction. In simultaneous heartbeats the Steeler WR reads the shift and breaks to the inside as the biggest Ben, who also read the shift, delivers the ball on target.

IMHO the above play would NOT be possible in the Bengals Clockwork Orange offense simply because the WR's are not allowed to make route adjustments after the snap of the ball. Furthermore, the Bengals scheme is so heavily weighted towards perfect timing the QB would not have been capable of waiting for the WR to read the coverage. Rather, the WR would have been expected to run a precision predetermined route, after making the correct hot read. Likewise, Bengal QB's are not permitted to make impromptu adjustments after the snap, and in the above example would have either thrown the ball to the predetermined spot, coverage be damned, or more likely....would have already delivered the ball somewhere else.

Granted, it's just one example. But we've seen the example play out before our eyes a thousand times.

[ArmyBengal]

http://prod.www.bengals.clubs.nfl.com/news/article-1/No-QB-Id-rather-have/db5590cb-8103-41b5-940d-acc8dbfdf1f9

This is the article prior to the start of the season that TDB got Whitworth's comment from.

Interesting read in retrospect.

[combatbengal]

ArmyBengal, you're my brother in arms and I support you because we're on the same team with the same mission. But I have to ask you this. What exactly has Palmers Leadership accomplished thus far this season? Is it producing TD’s, first downs, wins, a decrease in penalties, less arrest, etc?

Said it before and will say it again, there are things Carson appears he needs to improve on.

That being said, there are QB's out there that have had bad seasons and come back to do just fine.

There are QB's right now that some people say are better than Carson, but doing as bad or worse than him.

Sorry, but even with recognizing the need to improve, he's one of the players I like for his leadership.

Address some of the other issues plaguing this team and then I might listen more intently.

[ArmyBengal]

ArmyBengal, you're my brother in arms and I support you because we're on the same team with the same mission. But I have to ask you this. What exactly has Palmers Leadership accomplished thus far this season? Is it producing TD’s, first downs, wins, a decrease in penalties, less arrest, etc?

Quite honestly ?? Not much. I can acknowledge that. However, I don't think that goes to what his style of leadership can or can't accomplish when looking at the whole picture. Just like the Military, where you have to be able to adapt to situations, Carson has been expected to adapt to a variety of circumstances placed upon him that don't necessarily assist him in that endeavour.

He's been forced to deal with WR's, while productive at times, are a little off. Chad, TJ, Henry, and now TO. Outside of them, there hasn't been much until Shipley got here (who I think the world of as a WR). He's been placed behind an o-line, that after Braham left, has been HORRIBLE. All the leadership in the world can't make those slugs pass protect any better. He works within a scheme ran by Bratkowski, that few, if any around here, thinks works to what it is that Carson does best or better said, works to maximize Carson's abilities as a QB. Minus last year where the defense actually looked like it knew what the hell was going on, he hasn't had a solid unit on the other side of the ball to help keep things in hand.

How is the best leader suppose to overcome such adversity placed upon them ?? I hate to use the Military as an example of how I would approach it from that standpoint due to the fact, I don't have to deal with a bunch of million dollar egos. There is also an entire support system in place for me when I exercise my particular style of leadership. What support channel does Carson have ?? Marvin ?? Bratkowski ?? Mike Brown ??

Again, I can agree there are things he needs to improve upon, but when it comes to leadership, I simply think there are a bunch of variables working against him that make calling his style into question difficult at best. Couple that with most players on the team having his back and praising him in the way he handles the team and that is where I will defer from blasting him in that concern.

No issues either, one team, one fight !!!