Bengals v Ravens (merged)

[Whur CHad At?]

That they've abandoned Smashball..

My fear exactly. They came out against New England heaving the ball to Owens. Why? I have no idea why. Since 2005 the only real success they've had was last year when they finally abandoned the Carson/Chad/Housh show. Then they come out this year and go right back to it. Frustrating.

Don't believe all this "NFL is a passing league, running doesn't win anymore."

Running the right way still wins. It sets up the pass. Smashmouth football will never die.

I don't think smashmouth football "died" but it has changed. I think teams are looking more for that quicker back than the power backs. And teams are using or searching for a Wes Welker type a reciever who will go across the middle for those short gains and using that as their main running game.

But this is a "passing league" now. Look at the last super bowl winners over the last few years. Superb passing games and decent running games. It is moving in that direction. The running game will win you games for sure, but you have an outstanding passing game to win championships.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm all about the Bengals running the ball this week, but I'm also ALL about them throwing the ball.

I just want them to do them both more effectively.

I also don't want to see them do like the Jets and simply say, "WE ARE RUNNING THE BALL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO" and then not even bother taking shots at what is the weakness of that team, the secondary. We've been talking about it forever. Go exploit it.

[Stripes]

I don't think the Bengals have any intent to abandon the power running game. Against New England they hoped to take advantage of a young pair of corners and in the first half failed utterly. I wish Benson had gotten more carries too, but as fast as the deficit grew I can't really blame the Bengals for their eventual 50 pass attempts.

I don't think there's any natural inclination in Cincinnati to throw throw throw. We've usually fielded personnel that suits that variety of offense, but even still we've run the ball quite a bit. Corey Dillon and Rudi Johnson both used to get a ton of carries. Even last year, the Bengals didn't run the ball that much more often than they threw it. They talked all off season long about achieving offensive balance (a strategy that is surely better than smashmouth or BSOPB ever could be). They failed to get there last week, but in a closer football game I trust them to do a better job. They won't outright ignore Benson, he's far too productive.

[HairOnFire]

I want to smash them in the mouth too, just in a different order. I want them to come out in 3 WR sets and open up the field.

Of course you do.

It's not just a matter of carries. If Benson carries 15 times for 40 yards, we're not in good shape.

True, but as long as we're speculating what might happen why not give a little consideration to what actually did happen the last few times the two teams played. After all, it's worked....repeatedly.

[Whur CHad At?]

TDB, Army, you all are right.

If we try to be like the Jets, we are going to get destroyed.

[Sea Ray]

I want to smash them in the mouth too, just in a different order. I want them to come out in 3 WR sets and open up the field.

Of course you do.

It's not just a matter of carries. If Benson carries 15 times for 40 yards, we're not in good shape.

True, but as long as we're speculating what might happen why not give a little consideration to what actually did happen the last few times the two teams played. After all, it's worked....repeatedly.

It's not 2009, Hair. They're minus a couple DBs and we have a couple WRs and one TE we didn't have last year. The gameplan should be altered accordingly.

[ArmyBengal]

YES, put me in the camp of wanting to see Gresham thrown to MORE.

[bwillycuse]

YES, put me in the camp of wanting to see Gresham thrown to MORE.

He got robbed of a TD last week.

I like Gresham and he will only get better IMO.

Didnt see snap information posted anywhere...so here is some snippets

Gresham played 66 snaps of the 76 offensive snaps. I think his fantasy value is rising fast. (Coats 8, Kelly 18)

Bernard 35, Benson 41.

Rey Maualuga only played half of defensive snaps.30 of 58

Did anyone notice we had 1 penalty in the whole game?

Andre Smith played 10 snaps fwiw.

[HairOnFire]

Smashmouth football will never die.

I don't agree. In fact, I'd say Smashball dies instantly the moment you first attempt to define your football team differently. And yeah, I'd say that's exactly what you're doing when you open the season by repeatedly passing on 3rd and 2.

Point blank, aginst New England I didn't see a Bengal football team that's committed to running the ball, and in the wake of that defeat I'm not hearing a fanbase that really want's to see that committment. Rather, all I'm seeing and hearing is 3-wide and handsome stuff.

[Sea Ray]

The Ravens are down another CB.

Lardarius Webb has a knee problem and will be a gametime decision.

Todd Heap is doubtful with a bum shoulder

[bwillycuse]

Smashmouth football will never die.

I don't agree. In fact, I'd say Smashball dies instantly the moment you first attempt to define your football team differently. And yeah, I'd say that's exactly what you're doing when you open the season by repeatedly passing on 3rd and 2.

Point blank, aginst New England I didn't see a Bengal football team that's committed to running the ball, and in the wake of that defeat I'm not hearing a fanbase that really want's to see that committment. Rather, all I'm seeing and hearing is 3-wide and handsome stuff.

Don't be lured into believing the team when they say they are run first.

They aren't. They aren't built that way. I wasn't paying attention to it closely last week but I don't think I saw any unbalanced lines or many 2 receiver sets.

Last years offense isn't much of an indication on this years offense. Much different look.

I just hope Brat is capable of keeping it balanced.

Passing on 3rd and 2 twice doesn't show much confidence in the running game. But don't we always pass on 3rd and 2?

[HairOnFire]

TDB, Army, you all are right.

If we try to be like the Jets, we are going to get destroyed.

Nobody is suggesting the Bengals copy an offensive gameplan that couldn't produce a TD or more than 7 or 8 1st downs. After all, this team has a QB who can threaten a defense with more than endless checkdowns. But why abandon a team strength? Why are so many of you reluctant to do the very same things that allowed this team to sweep a Raven team you seem to be scared of.

[Sea Ray]

Smashmouth football will never die.

I don't agree. In fact, I'd say Smashball dies instantly the moment you first attempt to define your football team differently. And yeah, I'd say that's exactly what you're doing when you open the season by repeatedly passing on 3rd and 2.

Point blank, aginst New England I didn't see a Bengal football team that's committed to running the ball, and in the wake of that defeat I'm not hearing a fanbase that really want's to see that committment. Rather, all I'm seeing and hearing is 3-wide and handsome stuff.

Our O-line looked so overmatched I wouldn't have liked our chances running Benson on third and two. NE sure didn't run it on third and two. They dumped it to Welker.

I liked our offense in 2005 a lot more than 2009. I take it you feel differently...

[HairOnFire]

YES, put me in the camp of wanting to see Gresham thrown to MORE.

I agree. Mostly because he's a matchup nightmare. But also because he can't block half as well as the zeros he replaced.

[derekshank]

TDB, Army, you all are right.

If we try to be like the Jets, we are going to get destroyed.

Nobody is suggesting the Bengals copy an offensive gameplan that couldn't produce a TD or more than 7 or 8 1st downs. After all, this team has a QB who can threaten a defense with more than endless checkdowns. But why abandon a team strength? Why are so many of you reluctant to do the very same things that allowed this team to sweep a Raven team you seem to be scared of.

I think Brat got a little too excited with his shiny new toys and tried to over-think it. Show the threat of the pass and then run the ball.

The problem was that the game got out of hand so fast, they never got the chance to start running it. Hopefully that was just the situation and not an indication of a full rebuild of last year's gameplan.

I loved the running game last year for a variety of reasons. I was hoping the passing game would merely be used to compliment it. It's possible that could still be the case... but my preseason fears that the changes in offense would negatively impact the defense appear to be more than just unnecessary hand wringing.

[HairOnFire]

I wasn't paying attention to it closely last week but I don't think I saw any unbalanced lines or many 2 receiver sets.

That's exactly my point. I'm not seeing the same committment as in the past, I'm not seeing the same playcalling, and I'm not seeing the same formations. Granted, they went heavy several times, but not as often as in the past. Instead, plenty of the 3 and 4-WR sets that so many are demanding again. Plus, when the Bengals go to 2-TE formations it's no longer a running package. Instead, it's based off of Gresham releasing into pass routes.

[Sea Ray]

I wasn't paying attention to it closely last week but I don't think I saw any unbalanced lines or many 2 receiver sets.

That's exactly my point. I'm not seeing the same committment as in the past, I'm not seeing the same playcalling, and I'm not seeing the same formations. Granted, they went heavy several times, but not as often as in the past. Instead, plenty of the 3 and 4-WR sets that so many are demanding again. Plus, when the Bengals go to 2-TE formations it's no longer a running package. Instead, it's based off of Gresham releasing into pass routes.

Are you saying you want to see more of Ben Coates as either a FB or TE than Gresham and Shipley?

[derekshank]

Are you saying you want to see more of Ben Coates as either a FB or TE than Gresham and Shipley?

I won't speak for Hair, but I'm fine with Coats being on the field in a blocking capacity. I love seeing Shipley get playing time, but not at the expense of the running game. So to answer your question... Yes, I prefer Coats to Shipley on plays where the plan is to turn around and give the ball to Benson. And that should happen more than 15 times a game.

I hope the Pats game isn't a reflection of the actual gameplan from here on out, because there were only 25 rushing attempts to 50 passing attempts.

Frankly, I'd be thrilled if the ratio returned to exactly what it was last year. The passing game will be more productive because of the talent on the roster, but with no actual change in the offensive philosophy that resulted in an ACFN championship. The improved passing game will merely make the team as a whole more successful.

[HairOnFire]

Are you saying you want to see more of Ben Coates as either a FB or TE than Gresham and Shipley?

First, who the hell is Ben Coates, and is he somehow related to that guy named Stockdale?

Second, I mentioned the changes at TE specifically to highlight the change in this years offense as compared to last year. Now I see how Joe Reedy actually documented the changes. For a few examples, Dan Coats is a very good blocker played just 8 snaps against the Patriots. Reggie Kelly is also a very good blocker, yet he played just 18 snaps. Now consider new guy Jermaine Gresham, a marginal blocker at best, who played 66 out of 76 offensive snaps. So pass catching prowess aside, are you telling me that type of blocking tradeoff, from one year to the next, isn't going to show up in rushing stats?

FWIW Reedy also showed how Benson ran very well to the left, but was repeatedly stuffed when running to the Bengals offensive right.

[HoosierCat]

Second, I mentioned the changes at TE specifically to highlight the change in this years offense as compared to last year.

Given how fast they got down a ton of points, I wouldn't draw any conclusions about how the O has changed. In fact, it seems to me that Gresham and especially Shipley were relatively late to get involved in the game. Play calls over the first quarter and a half were pretty balanced run v. pass. It was only after the Pats went up 17-0 that they abandoned the run. No surprise there.

[HoosierCat]

Today's injury report.

/>http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Todd-Heap-doesnt-practice-R-Lewis-Boldin-limited.html

For the Birds, Heap, Ray, Boldin all banged up, but will probably play.

[bwillycuse]

Today's injury report.

/>http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Todd-Heap-doesnt-practice-R-Lewis-Boldin-limited.html

For the Birds, Heap, Ray, Boldin all banged up, but will probably play.

They are always banged up.

They will all play, but i dont think they will make it through the whole season.

[Sea Ray]

Are you saying you want to see more of Ben Coates as either a FB or TE than Gresham and Shipley?

First, who the hell is Ben Coates, and is he somehow related to that guy named Stockdale?

Second, I mentioned the changes at TE specifically to highlight the change in this years offense as compared to last year. Now I see how Joe Reedy actually documented the changes. For a few examples, Dan Coats is a very good blocker played just 8 snaps against the Patriots. Reggie Kelly is also a very good blocker, yet he played just 18 snaps. Now consider new guy Jermaine Gresham, a marginal blocker at best, who played 66 out of 76 offensive snaps. So pass catching prowess aside, are you telling me that type of blocking tradeoff, from one year to the next, isn't going to show up in rushing stats?

FWIW Reedy also showed how Benson ran very well to the left, but was repeatedly stuffed when running to the Bengals offensive right.

Yeah, I wish he were Ben Coates, the former NE Patriot TE. My mistake! I won't try to sugar coat it with other silly defenses or attack the one who pointed out my mistake. I screwed up there

Why would anyone say that having Gresham in there instead of Coates or Kelly would hurt the rushing game? I sure wouldn't. I'll go out on a limb and say the reason Gresham was in there for 66 out of 76 plays was because they fell behind 31-3.

I would argue with your description of Coates as a very good blocker. He's good compared to Coffman and present day Gresham but that's as far as I'll go. It's his only skill and he's only average at it.

[jonahdsage]

I wasn't paying attention to it closely last week but I don't think I saw any unbalanced lines or many 2 receiver sets.

That's exactly my point. I'm not seeing the same committment as in the past, I'm not seeing the same playcalling, and I'm not seeing the same formations. Granted, they went heavy several times, but not as often as in the past. Instead, plenty of the 3 and 4-WR sets that so many are demanding again. Plus, when the Bengals go to 2-TE formations it's no longer a running package. Instead, it's based off of Gresham releasing into pass routes.

I think it's a LITTLE bit early to say we aren't seeing the same commitment to the run as we did last year. It was one game in which we were down by four touchdowns in the first half. If we came out and ran the ball 20+ times in the second half everyone here would be screaming about how Brat/Marv didn't want to win, didn't use our new weapons etc etc etc. The New England game was (hopefully) an anomaly and I don't think it's fair to judge the mindset of the team or our approach to offense based off the season opener. No stress bengals

[redsbengalsbucks]

I want to see more touches to Bernard Scott, he seems to have the speed to run the outside running plays. Brat in his infinite wisdom, runs Benson on way to many sweeps, or outside the tackle runs. Benson needs to get north and south quickly, dont let him run down the line of scrimmage and allow the D to zero in on him.

More short pass routes to Shipley, Gresham and Scott this week please. Add Leonard in there too, if healthy. Take advantage of Ray's lost step in the middle.