Marvin and a contract extension

[jjakq27]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100720/SPT02/307200037/1066/Marvin-hopeful-of-returning-in-2011

Flying in under the comments made about Ced Benson, was this interview regarding his desire to return. I can only guess that money is not the major stumbling point. The word "direction" stands out in his comments.

“I try to check in every two or three days while I’m gone,” Lewis said. “It’s better when we can talk in person and he can give his thoughts on where we are and I can tell him where we are as far as the roster and looking at things as we go forward. We can pretty much come to a conclusion and direction between the two of us.”

[jjakq27]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ludwig/2010/07/21/mike-vs-marvin/?GID=0OT3zm8/okiw5TBW5cZnz9BVseAcGO/OHTbtPfANTUk%3D

Chick Ludwig's take on the negotiations.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Pay the man.

Christ, this is the kind of dumb sh*t people mean when they call Mikey a myopic, penny-pinching loser.

[HairOnFire]

Pay the man.

Who says they won't?

Christ, this is the kind of dumb sh*t people mean when they call Mikey a myopic, penny-pinching loser.

The best thing about Bengal fans is the way the wait for all the facts before making ridiculous accusations.

[TJJackson]

Well, with or without the facts of another Marvin extension, we do have roughly two decades of facts to look at when evaluating our self-proclaimed GM, Son-of-a-Genius

[HairOnFire]

Well, with or without the facts of another Marvin extension.....

You should stop right there because the only thing we do know is how none of us have any insight whatsoever in regards to the current negotiations.....which is why media hacks like the Chickster find themselves crafting fiction armed with nothing but a few sentence fragments.

So let's recap what we do know. Mike wants Marvin back. Marvin Lewis, fresh off of being awarded Coach of the Year honors, says he wants to remain in Cincy. Contract extension negotiations began months ago, and both sides are still talking.....without any hint of anger or frustration. Furthermore, Marvin has repeatedly stated that his relationship with Mike is very close and he actually likes working in a system without a GM because it allows him to deal directly with the team owner. And last, the partnership of Mike and Marvin have produced a loaded team...perhaps the best team the Bengals have ever put together.

Where's the problem?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Who says they won't?

It should have been done before now.

The best thing about Bengal fans is the way the wait for all the facts before making ridiculous accusations.

What facts are missing? Marvin doesn't have a contract. A professionally-run organization would have successfully negotiated one by now. Consider also the speculation as to the reason why - namely, that Marvin wants concessions to get Mikey to stop running the Bengals like it's 1975, which Mikey is resisting. If true, that would be even more damning - it would mean that Mikey won't listen to the only person who's brought him any success at all in 20 years.

You'd think even he's not that determined to stick his head in his ass.

[TJJackson]

Where's the problem?

Thats just it.....no problem (from where I stand) with the contract extension or lack thereof to this point

Instead, what I am saying instead is that I (anyone) can draw the conclusion about SoaG's qualities (or lack thereof) as a GM from the previous 2 decades rather than this one item.

Why am I making this point? Because of your remark about drawing conclusions about SoaG being a "myopic, penny-pinching loser" without all the facts in on the state of negotiations on the contract extension. All I am saying is I don't need this one item to draw said conclusion, I have plenty of knowlege of the past 2 decades (ie, facts that ARE already 'in') to come to more or less this same conclusion.

[HairOnFire]

What facts are missing? Marvin doesn't have a contract.

Sure he does. In fact, he's under contract for a full year.....plenty of time to reach a new agreement.

It should have been done before now.

Why? Marvin hasn't expressed any frustration whatsoever and Mikey Boy isn't talking at all. So what makes you think things should have been completed yesterday?

Consider also the speculation as to the reason why - namely, that Marvin wants concessions to get Mikey to stop running the Bengals like it's 1975, which Mikey is resisting.

Speculation from who? The Chickster? P-Doc? Secret Chimp Lancelot Link? The Biggest C? I'm guessing none of those guys gets any closer to the bargaining table than the parking lot. And didn't Marvin just state how often he meets with Brown and how much he likes having direct access to team ownership?

If true, that would be even more damning....

Well there's the rub because it probably isn't true. Far more likely it's just empty blather from a cadre of local sportswriters who all lack credibility AND access.

....it would mean that Mikey won't listen to the only person who's brought him any success at all in 20 years.

Marvin has described his relationship with Mike Brown as a true partnership , further claiming they meet at least once every working day. That sounds like a healthy relationship to me.

[HairOnFire]

Why am I making this point? Because of your remark about drawing conclusions about SoaG being a "myopic, penny-pinching loser" without all the facts in on the state of negotiations on the contract extension.

DC claims there's no agreement because Marvin is attempting to force Mikey to surrender additional control.

You seem to be claiming the holdup is over money.

I'm claiming both of you don't know a thing about why there's been no agreement yet.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm claiming both of you don't know a thing about why there's been no agreement yet.

Except there isn't one. Exactly how many plausible reasons do you envision for there not being one? It's either money or control, and you'd have to be deliberately obstinate to envision a third reason.

Incidentally, the reason it should have been done before now is that it's dumb to go into your most promising season in many years with a lame-duck coach.

For what it's worth, Marvin did say some things a few months ago that hinted toward displeasure with the Bengals SOP (take that acronym either way you want). I'll find the links if I can.

[BengalPimp]

I'm claiming both of you don't know a thing about why there's been no agreement yet.

Except there isn't one. Exactly how many plausible reasons do you envision for there not being one? It's either money or control, and you'd have to be deliberately obstinate to envision a third reason.

It might not be about money in terms of "how much per year" it may have something to do with Mikey handing out guaranteed money to his Coach when he's not sure if there will be an NFL season in 2011 (due to a possible lock-out). If that's the case, it would be a good move on Mikey's part to take care of Marvin and make sure he is safe and secure. Good for the Franchise.

[HoosierCat]

Exactly how many plausible reasons do you envision for there not being one? It's either money or control, and you'd have to be deliberately obstinate to envision a third reason.

How about performance?

[BengalPimp]

I wonder what JoePong thinks?????

[HairOnFire]

I'm claiming both of you don't know a thing about why there's been no agreement yet.

Except there isn't one. Exactly how many plausible reasons do you envision for there not being one?

Why hasn't there been an agreement yet? Well who amongst us really knows, but I guess I'll start with the fact that there simply doesn't have to be an agreement now. They've still got plenty of time.

It's either money or control, and you'd have to be deliberately obstinate to envision a third reason.

Whose being deliberately obstinate? You're the one pretending an imaginary deadline has been passed. And you're the one speculating, without any evidence whatsoever, that Lewis is attempting to force Mike Brown into making concessions he doesn't want to make.

Incidentally, the reason it should have been done before now is that it's dumb to go into your most promising season in many years with a lame-duck coach.

Only if Lewis is being treated like a lame-duck coach....which isn't the case at all.

For what it's worth, Marvin did say some things a few months ago that hinted toward displeasure with the Bengals SOP (take that acronym either way you want). I'll find the links if I can.

I wouldn't bother. I'm certain there are numerous things Marvin would change if given more control, and I'm just as certain those types of things are part of the negotiations. But I haven't seen anything that would make me think he's attempting to force concessions on Brown OR that he could prevail if he tried. Rather, I see two men working in close partnership, if not almost perfect lockstep, and if they need more time to debate the future direction of this team then I'm all for it.

[HairOnFire]

I wonder what JoePong thinks?????

I wonder IF Joe Pong thinks????

[HairOnFire]

How about performance?

When nothing is known speculation will always rule the day. That said, I don't think I agreed with anything you wrote in that article.

Then again, how could I? Without pausing a beat you went from painting Mike Brown as an easily satisfied champion of mediocrity who is very unlikely to change head coaches to a scenario based upon Marvin Lewis sitting on a hotseat facing his last chance in Cincy. You finally settle on the latter choice, prompting me to wonder why he and the Bengals would be engaged in prolonged contract extension talks at all if Lewis really was sitting on a proverbial hotseat?

As for me, I see the length of negotiations as a very strong positive. And the same is true in regards to the number of times Lewis admits they've negotiated. Because even if there's been no final agreement there are plenty of signs showing both sides willingness to debate Marvin Lewis's long-term future with the franchise.

Last, since they are discussing both Mike and Marvin's long-term futures isn't it only natural that their discussions might go beyond their current roles?

[HoosierCat]

When nothing is known speculation will always rule the day. That said, I don't think I agreed with anything you wrote in that article.

Well, that would hardly be a first. But you might want to read it again.

Then again, how could I? Without pausing a beat you went from painting Mike Brown as an easily satisfied champion of mediocrity

I said nothing about Mikey and mediocrity. In fact, you appear to have missed my entire point, which was that the lack of a contract extension may be due Mikey's dissatisfaction with mediocrity.

[HairOnFire]

I said nothing about Mikey and mediocrity.

Sure you did.

"But I also know that it's easy to get satisfied when things are going okay, if not great, and in that situation there's a natural tendency to avoid risk. Yes, you might improve your situation -- but you might make it worse, too. So you stay put."

In fact, you appear to have missed my entire point, which was that the lack of a contract extension may be due Mikey's dissatisfaction with mediocrity.

I didn't miss it. I even commented on how quickly you moved from the above "stay put" scenario based upon accepting results that are good but not great, to one where Mike Brown refuses to agree to a contract extension due to his dissatisfaction with Marvin's record.

Simply put, both scenarios reject the idea that Mike Brown looks upon Marvin Lewis as the coaching candidate most capable of turning something good into far greater in Cincinnati. And yeah, it's the last bit about Cincy itself that Mike Brown might consider most important. Because even if Marvin's overall record is modest...he has changed the culture here. We're no longer satisfied with mediocrity because of what he has achieved. And knowing that, who better to take the franchise to the next step?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Marvin has described his relationship with Mike Brown as a true partnership , further claiming they meet at least once every working day. That sounds like a healthy relationship to me.

Or he doesn't trust Mikey to 'shop for the groceries' as Parcells would say. And who would blame him? How's the saying go, keep your friends close, and your incompetent boss closer?

Only if Lewis is being treated like a lame-duck coach....which isn't the case at all.

Do you think the players won't notice the lack of a contract? It would be naive in the extreme to think that won't affect relationships between players with years left on their contracts and a coach who's got a couple of months.

Not to mention - and I don't know the answer to that question - when's the last time that a coach reached free agency (for lack of a better term) and came back?

There's a reason why professionally-run organizations don't let coaches reach the final year of their deal. It matters. And like usual, Mikey's got the penny-wise part of the equation nailed but he's too myopic to see the impacts of the decisions he makes.

How about performance?

I'm hard-pressed to believe that even Mikey has the spinal agility to get his head that far in his ass. If he lets Marvin go, there's about a 0% chance of getting a better coach to come to Cincinnati. Don't get me wrong - I think Marvin's a better-than-average, but not stellar, coach. I think he's weak in-game but strongest from an organizational standpoint, which we need because he's the only one in the building who is. But let's be real - nobody on the "A" list will ever come to Cincinnati to work with Mike Brown. So I'll keep our strong B-lister.

[firemarvinNOW]

Maybe he could win a playoff game then he could get an extension. 2 winning season in 7 years is not very good anywhere.

[ArmyBengal]

Maybe he could win a playoff game then he could get an extension. 2 winning season in 7 years is not very good anywhere.

However, turning around the laughingstock franchise we were prior to getting here, winning two AFCN championships, and earning a Coach of the Year honor is nothing to turn your nose up at. He put himself on the hot seat last season saying he finally had a team of "his type" of players even though they were expected to finish poorly and had tons of question marks. That turned out pretty well and the team has improved itself again headed into this season. I think he should be given at the same amount of time that Zimmer was, that way if it doesn't improve, you have your replacement.