New Angle - What is the Bengals weakness?

[walzav29]

I suppose it would be Defensive Line, but I think they will be improved as well. Kicking game could use some work. This team is on the verge of a special season.

[derekshank]

I suppose it would be Defensive Line, but I think they will be improved as well.

I wouldn't say the D-Line is a weakness. They were one of the best run-stopping D-Lines in the entire NFL, and have only added to that. I assume you are referring to the lack of a consistent pass rush... and I agree that it is probably the weakest part of the defense. But they have certainly brought in pieces to address that issue... we'll just have to wait and see if it works.

I say the weakness of the team is still the pass-protection for Palmer. A lot of people talked about how Palmer had lost it... especially in the playoff game. But he was harassed all day by the Jets defense. They went out and gave Palmer several shiny new toys to throw to... but didn't really address what I perceive is the primary problem.

I hope the O-Line continues to improve, because if they don't - this offense has a fairly low ceiling in my opinion.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I'd say both lines are possible week points.

Defensive back depth is still a ?

TE is still a big ?

WR is in such a change this season, it has to be considered a week point until the WR's prove they can play in this system.

Considering all of these possible week points, I will agree that O-line is still the best chance to be the weekest link.

[bwillycuse]

We don't have a proven fullback or a proven kicker.

[HairOnFire]

Biggest weakness?

Right now I'd point to a rebuilt passing game that features better and more talented players at multiple positions, but will probably suffer a bit due to a lack of experience.

That said, it isn't something that can't be overcome. In fact, I think the key to winning big this season is a willingness to continue grinding, with better players, rather than attempting to win using a downfield passing game that probably won't be able to produce consistently right out of the box.

[ArmyBengal]

I agree with the fact the weaknesses exist only based upon how they finished the season and not knowing how the new additions are going to pan out.

The WR corps, the pass rush, the pass protection, the kicking game ?? Yep, yep, yep, and yep.

If you want my biggest concern about a "potential" weakness, it's the pass protection for Palmer. It's been talked about on here in the past, but many were simply of the line of thought that Palmer was the reason and while I agree he had over/underthrown balls through the season, there were MANY times the pass protection simply didn't allow him the time needed. Couple that with the horrendous play at the WR position and him getting the thumb fixed and Carson doesn't even crack the top 5 of potential concerns for this team IMO.

[HairOnFire]

If you want my biggest concern about a "potential" weakness, it's the pass protection for Palmer.

I'm not as worried about the O-line for two reasons. First, I'm expecting Andre Smith to step in and lock down the RT position in ways few can imagine, instantly giving the Bengals a more athletic blocker with far better balance and pass blocking technique. Second, Palmer now has a cupboard filled to overflowing with TE's and slot recievers who can threaten defenses between the hash marks quickly....so checkdown options should be much improved.

[ArmyBengal]

If you want my biggest concern about a "potential" weakness, it's the pass protection for Palmer.

I'm not as worried about the O-line for two reasons. First, I'm expecting Andre Smith to step in and lock down the RT position in ways few can imagine, instantly giving the Bengals a more athletic blocker with far better balance and pass blocking technique. Second, Palmer now has a cupboard filled to overflowing with TE's and slot recievers who can threaten defenses between the hash marks quickly....so checkdown options should be much improved.

Well, taking cue from your concerns with injuries to players, Andre Smith is my biggest for the o-line. I agree wholeheartedly, if he's healthy, there's alot less to be concerned with, but we don't know yet. Just like what else we are hoping to get from the TE's. I think it will be better, but it will figure itself out soon enough.

[Kazkal]

-Pass Blocking if Livings is in

[BengalPimp]

Pass Rush....or lack of

[Kazkal]

Pass Rush....or lack of

Hmmm before offseason I'd agree but I think with Dunlap,Atkins and MJ playing hybrid role I think that area will be much improved...Though i'd list it 2nd or 3rd IMO

[derekshank]

Pass Rush....or lack of

Hmmm before offseason I'd agree but I think with Dunlap,Atkins and MJ playing hybrid role I think that area will be much improved...Though i'd list it 2nd or 3rd IMO

The pass rush looked pretty good before Odom got hurt too. If he's anywhere near what he was before... combined with the players you mentioned - it very well should be improved.

That said... it seems like we say this s**t every year.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm not as worried about the O-line for two reasons. First, I'm expecting Andre Smith to step in and lock down the RT position in ways few can imagine

I realize you've been blowing his...horn...since before the draft, but I'll believe it when I see him in practice. Without him I still worry about pass protection, and penalties.

Other worries:

*DT - I've never been thrilled with them. They seemed to get trampled by the Jets (good running game, yes, but still). Peko's good but I think shouldn't be your best DT. I realize my complaint here plays into our other mega-popular thread of the offseason, but I think AH shows day by day why he'll never be a winner.

*S - Need better coverage skills. Hopefully the reports of Dookie getting better there are true.

*TE - Great depth now, and the odds are somebody steps up. But until I see it, I ain't trusting it. I'll also feel better when Gresham signs.

*WR - Done to death. Good depth, now the issue becomes 'how good is the top of the chart'?

*OC - I'd like not to be able to call the plays with 90% accuracy from my couch.

Not worries:

*CB - Great starters though depth is a problem. Potentially solved if Pacman is the real deal and stays out of 'scrip clubs'.

*RB - CedBen for punishment, '4th and Leonard' when the game's on the line.

*QB - I'm not worried about Carson, since he'll either be OK or we're 100% screwed.

*DE - Too much talent for it not to work out

*LB - Staaaaaaaaacked.

[HairOnFire]

Michael Johnson and Carlos Dunlap.

The Ghost and the Darkness.

[HairOnFire]

I realize you've been blowing his...horn...since before the draft, but I'll believe it when I see him in practice. Without him [Andre Smith] I still worry about pass protection, and penalties.

Without him, so do I. And yeah, the foot injury worries me. But there's the rub because it's the only thing that worries me about Smith.

Other worries:

*DT - I've never been thrilled with them. They seemed to get trampled by the Jets (good running game, yes, but still). Peko's good but I think shouldn't be your best DT. I realize my complaint here plays into our other mega-popular thread of the offseason, but I think AH shows day by day why he'll never be a winner.

(shrug)

Without any prompting from me you acknowledge the potential to upgrade....so I'll let things lie until something new developes in DC. All I'll add is the DT isn't a position of need. In fact, it's adequate. Or if you prefer, solid but unspectacular. But there is plenty of room for improvement, and IMHO a major upgrade could easily push this defense into full blown elite status.

The last piece of the puzzle.

[ArmyBengal]

I think that's something people tend to not think about as well. The fact that when we have solid, albeit unspectacular players, they can't see the need for an upgrade at a position. The only change I see to the DT spot is the addition of Atkins in the draft. Will that be enough ?? With a healthy Peko and Tank, I think it will be, but you can't simply be content with that when only a week prior to the draft, there were many that thought we should use our 1st rounder on a DT like Price from UCLA.

That in and of itself is reason enough to believe there could be upgrades made to this roster. Sims ?? He better show something...

[BengalPimp]

Pass Rush....or lack of

Hmmm before offseason I'd agree but I think with Dunlap,Atkins and MJ playing hybrid role I think that area will be much improved...Though i'd list it 2nd or 3rd IMO

I really like MJ, and I am also hopefull about Dunlap (and maybe Atkins), but if they leave Geathers in there giving us almost no pass rush at all, it hurts......I'm counting on Odom coming back strong (though I think it may take a few games) but outside of him.....We are just hoping somebody steps up, because nobody else is proven....

[Stripes]

Like Kaz, my primary concern is the pass rush. I don't expect Odom to carry on anything close to his awesome sack pace prior to his injury last season. Michael Johnson looks like he could really be special to me, but if he doesn't get it done I'm not sure anyone will. I certainly don't want to rely on Dunlap yet.

[HoosierCat]

Well, the first thing that pops to mind is that Sideshow Bob is still the OC. We have heard plenty about changes to the playbook, but we always seem to hear plenty about changes to the playbook...and come the season, we all end up complaining about the offense's utter predictability.

Maybe this year it's different, but for me that goes in the "believe it when I see it" category.

After that, penalties, especially of the pre-snap variety (false start, delay, etc.). Half this team's problem last season was its propensity to shoot itself in the foot on a regular basis. Cut. It. Out. (Be nice if they'd waste fewer time-outs, too.)

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Well, the first thing that pops to mind is that Sideshow Bob is still the OC. We have heard plenty about changes to the playbook, but we always seem to hear plenty about changes to the playbook...and come the season, we all end up complaining about the offense's utter predictability.

Yup. From Hard Knocks he strikes me as one of those guys who thinks he's way smarter than he is, and I don't think it occurs to him that other teams read him like a book. Just a guess based on a TV show, but still. This is one of my frustrations, is that if they'd gotten rid of him when it was clearly a problem, we might have an OC entering his 2nd or 3rd season and ready to raise some hell. Now, we have the likelihood of more "Ced Left, Ced Right, Screen Pass Broken Up, Punt" drives. Yay.

After that, penalties, especially of the pre-snap variety (false start, delay, etc.). Half this team's problem last season was its propensity to shoot itself in the foot on a regular basis. Cut. It. Out. (Be nice if they'd waste fewer time-outs, too.)

To me, even though they're the offense's problem, both these go on Marvin, mostly. The timeouts have always been one of his weaknesses, it seems, except for the ones created by Brat taking 5 minutes to pick a play. And the penalties too - I'm not sure if they don't do enough drills, or if it's just lesser talent trying to get a jump on the snap (which I'd totally believe with our OL on pass coverage). If I'm the head coach, I drill 'em until it stops.

[derekshank]

Like Kaz, my primary concern is the pass rush. I don't expect Odom to carry on anything close to his awesome sack pace prior to his injury last season. Michael Johnson looks like he could really be special to me, but if he doesn't get it done I'm not sure anyone will. I certainly don't want to rely on Dunlap yet.

I get that. I think Bengal fans tend to view the pass rush with a "don't tell me, show me" attitude. And that's not entirely unfair... because year after year there appear to be new additions to the D-Line that might improve the pass rush - and rarely does the improvement materialize.

That said... I'd like to point out that in 2008 (Zimmer's first year here) the Bengals were 2nd to last in sacks with 17.

Last year, the Bengals doubled that number with 34, which was good for 16th in the NFL. Even without Odom's 8 sacks... it's still a notable improvement.

Will Odom be 100%? Only time will tell - but I don't think he needs to be. Zimmer can't stop gushing about MJ... and I personally have high hopes for situational rotation at DT that Dunlap, Atkins, and Odom will bring.

I tend to have a little more confidence in the pass rush this year, simply because of what Zimmer said specifically about getting pressure on the QB:

“We’ve got a lot of stuff in right now, maybe too much,” Zimmer said. “We’re trying to figure out how we can use the guys the best we can. We’ve got a lot of tools right now and are tying to figure out how we can use them. We’re light years ahead of where we were two years ago where we came in. We couldn’t have done half of the stuff that we’re doing right now."

ZImmer said that? I'm sold.

[derekshank]

Well, the first thing that pops to mind is that Sideshow Bob is still the OC. We have heard plenty about changes to the playbook, but we always seem to hear plenty about changes to the playbook...and come the season, we all end up complaining about the offense's utter predictability.

Predictability? Yeah, I won't deny it's a bit of a concern - but I have a hard time getting as upset as everyone else. (Warning... some have accused me of being a Brat apologist - just preparing everyone for what they are about to read).

Last year Bob said they were going to rework the playbook and become a run-first team. Before the first play of the regular season, the Bengals lost both their starting TEs. Then because of injuries to the O-Line and the WR depth they nearly had to became a run-only team. These were things that were out of Brat's control... but he came up with formations that even though the opposing defense knew what was coming... they did it successfully anyway - to the tune of 9th in the NFL in rushing.

So... predictable? Yeah. But... given what he had to work with, I have a hard time complaining. And he remained true to his word that they were reworking the playbook... despite the fact that a good portion of it was likely scrapped because of the injuries.

This year, Brat and Palmer have both said that this passing playbook is hugely new. Given that he was true to his word last year, I have little reason to doubt him. Will he still be predictable? Sure, it's possible... but I tend to think that much of the predictability was more the fault of the circumstances than the playcaller.

If I'm wrong, it won't take long to find out, right?

[ArmyBengal]

Well, the first thing that pops to mind is that Sideshow Bob is still the OC. We have heard plenty about changes to the playbook, but we always seem to hear plenty about changes to the playbook...and come the season, we all end up complaining about the offense's utter predictability.

Predictability? Yeah, I won't deny it's a bit of a concern - but I have a hard time getting as upset as everyone else. (Warning... some have accused me of being a Brat apologist - just preparing everyone for what they are about to read).

Last year Bob said they were going to rework the playbook and become a run-first team. Before the first play of the regular season, the Bengals lost both their starting TEs. Then because of injuries to the O-Line and the WR depth they nearly had to became a run-only team. These were things that were out of Brat's control... but he came up with formations that even though the opposing defense knew what was coming... they did it successfully anyway - to the tune of 9th in the NFL in rushing.

So... predictable? Yeah. But... given what he had to work with, I have a hard time complaining. And he remained true to his word that they were reworking the playbook... despite the fact that a good portion of it was likely scrapped because of the injuries.

This year, Brat and Palmer have both said that this passing playbook is hugely new. Given that he was true to his word last year, I have little reason to doubt him. Will he still be predictable? Sure, it's possible... but I tend to think that much of the predictability was more the fault of the circumstances than the playcaller.

If I'm wrong, it won't take long to find out, right?

I was thinking the same thing and it has nothing to do with saying Brat is a good OC, just the situation this team faced last season. If Carson says the passing game has changed more this season than in any season since he was drafted, I will simply be happy (as there's no reason for him to lie) and take the "wait and see" approach. Being honest though, I have high expectations for the passing game this year (if for no other reason) than what the running game was able to achieve when it became the focus heading into last season.

[Ickey44]

The thing is, Brat didn't just suddenly become predictable last year when he didn't have much to work with. He's been that way for at least the last three years. I know Brat isn't the worst OC in the league, but it seems like there's never anything new. There was one play last year against the Vikings where Chad faked and end-around and ended up catching a screen and scoring a TD. How come we don't see more things like that? It's like he's been using the same plays since 2003 and hasn't added anything to it. Carson kind of confirmed that when he said this is the biggest change to the playbook since he's been here. The playbook should probably change from year to year based on your personnel. Instead of playing to the strengths of the people he has, he keeps trying to get people to fit his playbook. You can't do that. You have to adapt. He's never been able to adapt to anything.

Ugh. Rant over. I hope we see a much better offense this year, but I will not be sad when Brat is no longer here.

[HairOnFire]

Like Kaz, my primary concern is the pass rush. I don't expect Odom to carry on anything close to his awesome sack pace prior to his injury last season. Michael Johnson looks like he could really be special to me, but if he doesn't get it done I'm not sure anyone will. I certainly don't want to rely on Dunlap yet.

Actually, I think guys like Dunlap are capable of earning significant playing time fairly quickly, as MJ did last year. And I wouldn't rule out a little early production either...due to the Bengals having increased success when stunting or gaming.