John Clayton has a nice wrap up on Mini Camp

[ArmyBengal]

I'm still of the line of thought that if Briscoe shows any type of potential, he makes the team. While I understand any team signing one of our practice squad players has to add them to their active roster, I can't envision a handful of teams with some serious WR issues passing on a 3rd round talent WR that slipped and by snatching him off another team's PS won't cost them a draft pick. It's win/win for another team.

That being said, we may be at a point where our WR corps is just that solid, but I'm simply not sold "at this point in time".

That may change before final cuts at the position need to occur.

It really wouldn't surprise me to see:

Chad, Bryant, Caldwell, Shipley, Briscoe, and Cosby.

You would have your #1 and #2 in Chad and Bryant. Caldwell, that could fill either the slot or outside in case of injury. Two slot guys in Shipley and Cosby. Then Briscoe fills the role of non-active WR. It's still very early, but just saying it wouldn't surprise me in the least. For some, that thought would cause worlds to crumble.

[HairOnFire]

I'm still of the line of thought that if Briscoe shows any type of potential, he makes the team.

It's early, but Briscoe has already missed plenty of practices due to injury.

It really wouldn't surprise me to see:

Chad, Bryant, Caldwell, Shipley, Briscoe, and Coles.

Actually, that would be suprising.

Two slot guys in Shipley and Coles.

Hint: Earn yo puddin'

Then Briscoe fills the role of non-active WR.

In other words, a wasted pick.

Put me down for some Jerome.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm still of the line of thought that if Briscoe shows any type of potential, he makes the team.

It's early, but Briscoe has already missed plenty of practices due to injury.

It really wouldn't surprise me to see:

Chad, Bryant, Caldwell, Shipley, Briscoe, and Coles.

Actually, that would be suprising.

Two slot guys in Shipley and Coles.

Hint: Earn yo puddin'

Then Briscoe fills the role of non-active WR.

In other words, a wasted pick.

Put me down for some Jerome.

Briscoe has had injury issues and it certainly will factor into how things work out for him. In regards to Simpson, he's still looked at as a project and less polished than Briscoe is even though Briscoe is just coming out of Kansas and Simpson has had quite some time here to learn. Again, I think it will play out on the field, but haven't we already seen enough of Simpson occupying the 6th WR spot only to be passed up when the chance was there ?? No special teams play helps neither and I think it's a wash and simply time for something different. It's not me being all, "he's a lock" either, just something to make note of as it also wouldn't surprise me to see him on the practice squad.

Well, I made the edit and have no idea why I had Coles on the brain. It's not like you could confuse the two based on production huh ??

That would surprise the sh*t out of me as well !!!

[HairOnFire]

In regards to Simpson, he's still looked at as a project and less polished than Briscoe is even though Briscoe is just coming out of Kansas and Simpson has had quite some time here to learn.

Briscoe may be more polished, but that won't do anyone any good until he starts practicing. And call me crazy but I think the time Simpson has spent learning actually makes him less of a project, and more ready to contribute, than Briscoe.

Again, I think it will play out on the field, but haven't we already seen enough of Simpson occupying the 6th WR spot only to be passed up when the chance was there ??

In a word, no.

Frankly, we all know the Bengals will keep a designated inactive WR on their roster, and I can't think of a better choice.

No special teams play helps neither and I think it's a wash and simply time for something different.

A player who can contribute on special teams will always be more popular than any inactive player, but I remind myself that Simpson was considered to be a long-term project when drafted, and targeted to play an important role within the base passing offense. And I'm in no hurry to toss that stuff aside simply because it's so easy to find a WR who can return kicks or fill the gunner role.

[ArmyBengal]

If Simpson is all those things and more, I couldn't be more happy for him. I would love to be able to change my opinion of him being a huge bust to this point in time and be able to hear the coaches say he has learned to be more consistent in his route running. With all the time he has had in the system, thereby making him less of a project, the coaches still bust his chops about his inconsistencies. When Briscoe was runnning routes, there was nothing but praise.

Again, I hope Simpson can realize all the potential all the coaches saw in him, but if all we get is another 6th WR to be inactive, I say it's time to move on. That being said, I'm glad we appear to have better WR's this year that allow us to be concerned with whom the 6th WR actually is.

I'm simply rooting for whomever is the best player. I'm simply not convinced Simpson is that player. If he is, great.

[Trevor]

I really dont think Jones is in competition with Cosby.

That's because he's not. the 6th WR wouldn't be active on gamedays if he doesn't play STs... and Cosby happens to excel - not just in punt returning, but also in kickoff duties. tdlong is the culprit who brought up the Cosby/Jones debate - because he doesn't seem to understand that fact.

He is either going to beat out Simpson or the other way around. Briscoe may beat them both, but I think he ends up on the PS if injuries dont rear thier ugly head.

Agreed.

I realize i said great punt returners were a dime a dozen... Let me rephrase, I meant good ones... How's that? There are some guys on this team right now that can get 8 yards a pop. Which is very good. I brought up Jones vs. Cosby because i think mike brown (who has the say of who stays anyways) will keep simpson anyhow because he is a chad clone and he may not want to resign ocho.

But if he can get rid of quan who is a punt returner and no recieving threat, and pacman who at one point was a probowl snub at one point. Beit 4 years ago but he looks good right now. Really good. Don't say he sucked in dallas we all know that... He's twice as good as he was there. If cosby loses his return job he loses his job period. Leaving a spot as a reciever for mr jones. And that coked up comment was uncalled for tj jackson... Who are we to judge somebody especially if they are clean and have been to EVERY single practice...

[derekshank]

If cosby loses his return job he loses his job period.

That's quite an assumption. Cosby was also one of the best special team role players in kickoff returns. If he loses his job as a returner, he could easily gain one as a blocker and a gunner. Especially when you consider his value as a return man in the event that injuries occur.

In regards to giving the 6th WR spot to Jones... I've explained it twice already. If it's not Cosby, it'll still be a STer.

[TJJackson]

I realize i said great punt returners were a dime a dozen... Let me rephrase, I meant good ones... How's that?

I think I called you a humongous buffoon earlier.....let me rephrase that......I meant that you're an absolute freaking moron. Welcome to the braintrust.

There are some guys on this team right now that can get 8 yards a pop.

Who we talking here? and mind you, base your analysis on NFL production, not college....so rookies are out.

Also, 8 is less than 12. 33% less. Any chance you'd give me your boss's phone number so I could call him to let him know you dont think 33% is much of a dropoff, and ergo would be willing to take a 33% cut in pay?

Try it another way - it is the same difference between a 800 yards a year receiver and a 1200 yards a year receiver.

Or another, perhaps more in line with the production of the PR - how about a field goal comes from 4 yards closer? 46 yards instead of 50, for example?

i think mike brown (who has the say of who stays anyways) will keep simpson anyhow because he is a chad clone

so lets see - Chad has been over his time here a record-setting WR, and Simpson has set the record (or is coming close to it) for number of consecutive weeks on the inactive list. Yeah, they're clones all right.

But if he can get rid of quan who is a punt returner and no recieving threat

He was not in often as a WR, but when he was, he caught nearly everything thrown to him. Go review the tapes of the two Jets games and tell me if you can say the same about anyone else.

and pacman who at one point was a probowl snub at one point.

Interesting argument. Try this one: Cosby was also snubbed for the pro bowl, which is as much about your name and reputation as your actual production, unfortunately. Rookie UDCFAs have a steep uphill battle to earn said recognition.

Don't say he sucked in dallas we all know that.

Why wouldn't we? It's recent performance we can view on film to evaluate the player. You can't dismiss it simply because it works against your blatantly ridiculous position.

He's twice as good as he was there.

Who are you, the Bengals ST coach? One of the db coaches? Show evidence to back up this groundless bit of puffery.

If cosby loses his return job he loses his job period.

Barring injury, Cosby is a lock to earn roster spot, based not only on his ST performance, but his leadership, lockerroom presence, and, oh yeah, he catches everything thrown his way - you know, what WRs are supposed to do

Write it down so you dont forget.

that coked up comment was uncalled for tj jackson... Who are we to judge somebody especially if they are clean and have been to EVERY single practice...

I hope they keep an extra chalk machine on the sidelines in case Jones starts snorting up the chalked endline, sideline, and yardline marks.

[TJJackson]

I've explained it twice already.

Come on, Derek, it's tdlong you're talking about here - you cant expect him to understand after only hearing the explanation twice.

[NJ29]

I've been pretty clear that I'm with TJ and Derek on this, but let me add... I don't think I'd even rather have Jones than Cosby if it was just about playing receiver. He didn't get on the field much as a receiver, but when he did, he produced. Quan's special teams ability (not just as a punt returner, but all around) are just what make it a no brainer.

[ArmyBengal]

Let me add Quan's ability to not only make a hit, but "looking" to make that hit in special teams play. I think it was Scott's TD return against the Steelers, but please correct me if I'm wrong, where when Scott was heading into the endzone, Quan turned around and proceeded to lay a wicked hit on the closest guy to Scott. It's not that he even needed to make the hit, as Scott was surely going to get into the endzone, it was that he sent a VERY physical message that if you come out here, I'm going to smack you in the f*cking mouth.

THAT kind of special teams player is simply not the guy you get rid of in hopes that other retreads have the chance of regaining their form from years past. It's just the kind of stupidity this team use to engage in back in the 90's that they have gone to great lengths to not repeat.

Quan Cosby makes this team with little to no thought.

[derekshank]

Let me add Quan's ability to not only make a hit, but "looking" to make that hit in special teams play. I think it was Scott's TD return against the Steelers, but please correct me if I'm wrong, where when Scott was heading into the endzone, Quan turned around and proceeded to lay a wicked hit on the closest guy to Scott. It's not that he even needed to make the hit, as Scott was surely going to get into the endzone, it was that he sent a VERY physical message that if you come out here, I'm going to smack you in the f*cking mouth.

THAT kind of special teams player is simply not the guy you get rid of in hopes that other retreads have the chance of regaining their form from years past. It's just the kind of stupidity this team use to engage in back in the 90's that they have gone to great lengths to not repeat.

Quan Cosby makes this team with little to no thought.

Yeah. Bernard Scott Kickoff Return Video

When Scott cuts back to avoid the kicker, #22 (Gay) was able to get an angle on him. Cosby raced ahead and created a buffer... and once that job was done, since the play was still live... he turned around and puts a big hit on #11 (Logan) to remember him by.

So... to reiterate for the 4th time. I would much rather have a guy who contributes like that, than a 6'6" WR who will never see the field.

[ArmyBengal]

Thanks Derek !!! Exactly what I was talking about.

[bwillycuse]

I've explained it twice already.

Come on, Derek, it's tdlong you're talking about here - you cant expect him to understand after only hearing the explanation twice.

What possesses you to talk like that about people.

I know you think you are smart.

But I know for a fact that you are a dick. You make this board look bad. No one called you out. Learn how to have a discussion like an adult. You are the most unprofessional person on these boards.

I dont know if I am the only one that sees it but lay the F off.

Everyone is entitled to post their opinion without having their intelligence called out.

Ill go back and read the terms of service and see if there is a rule of that. But I am pretty sure there is a rule for calling posters inflammatory names in a mean spirited manner.

Its funny every time you try and Buddy up with someone trying to prove your point, they dont reply. Get a clue.

[TJJackson]

(deleted per Army's post that follows this one)

[ArmyBengal]

PM's work well here.

If there are issues needing to be addressed, feel free to PM any of the Mods (or better yet, the person you have issue with) and they will assist and give an answer. You may or may not like the answer given, but you will get an answer nonetheless. I think we/mods let things go and tolerate both sides (the stupidity and angered) well. If there are further questions, please let the administrator know about it.

Leave it out of the threads please.

[TJJackson]

I would much rather have a guy who contributes like that, than a 6'6" WR who will never see the field.

This

[Trevor]

I would much rather have a guy who contributes like that, than a 6'6" WR who will never see the field.

This

He wouldnt see the field?.. I am pretty sure he would... 3rd downs and red zone... Thats the field

[Trevor]

There are some guys on this team right now that can get 8 yards a pop.

[derekshank]

I would much rather have a guy who contributes like that, than a 6'6" WR who will never see the field.

This

He wouldnt see the field?.. I am pretty sure he would... 3rd downs and red zone... Thats the field

It's hard to get on the field if you're not active on Sundays. And since the bengals only activate 4 WRs on Sundays (unless they play special teams) Matt Jones wouldn't be active. Thus he would not see the field... 3rd down, redzone, or otherwise. He'd be watching on TV like the rest of us. Hey, maybe he and Simpson could have a BBQ.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

It's hard to get on the field if you're not active on Sundays. And since the bengals only activate 4 WRs on Sundays (unless they play special teams) Matt Jones wouldn't be active. Thus he would not see the field... 3rd down, redzone, or otherwise. He'd be watching on TV like the rest of us. Hey, maybe he and Simpson could have a BBQ.

I don't doubt that you're right, and here's something I don't understand - why do teams shy away from telling under-performing vets that maybe they ought to try some special teams so they can dress? Does Matt Jones not have aptitude toward special teams, or is he likely just not willing to do it?

Same would apply to Simpson the last 2 years as well. Anybody know if they tried him at it, and if so did he suck?

[TJJackson]

Why cant shipley do what cosby did?.. He's a rookie. Cosby was a rookie

Your logical fallacy here is that you are equating potential/unproven production (Shipley) with actual/proven production (Cosby)

They are not remotely the same

For all I know, Shipley may become the best PR ever in the NFL. But for now, he's shown us nothing. Cosby on the other hand has shown us what he can do. And what he can do is anything but "dime a dozen". What a ridiculous comment.

... And what if quan makes the team and only gets 6 yds for an avg this year?.. You never know man,..

If you want to play the [what if?] game.......what if Shipley is tried at PR and gives us 3 yards average? Do you want the 6 yards PR or the 3 yard PR in there?

Frankly, we know what Cosby is capable of in the NFL because he has done it. A lot. We dont know yet what Shipley can do. You don't replace the young proven star PR with an unproven player without cause, sir. That would be stupid.

And obviously you are the next perfect man right?.. Thats awesome! You've never done an illegal substance or had a beer at a golf course eh?

I am sure that in your world, everyone has consumed illegal substances. In the real world, some folks do, and some folks don't. Further, a beer at a gold course is not illegal, last I checked. Regardless, you're dodging the main issue here with a straw man argument. If he cokes up again and is caught, we've wasted a roster spot and practice reps on him. It's a risk. Period.

Matt jones brings more offensive production to the table than quan...

There are several problems with this argument

1) if the player is inactive or suspended by the league, he wont be producing at all. period. Both are serious risks for Jones, but not for Cosby.

2) A backup WR's 'production' is not measured in a offensive-set-only fishbowl. Production is production.

3) Have you taken a look at Jones' 2009 'offensive production'? *laff*

If you disagree then good for you,.. But i know its true.

Generally, posters like you are incapable of adjusting an opinion (much less admitting to being wrong) in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But it is said ignorance is bliss, and who doesn't need more bliss in their life?

Than i shall inform you I am a 3.0 student at troy university... But hey... Ill just leave you to your opinion...

*shrug*

I don't care if you are a Rhodes scholar or a professor at MIT. I don't care if you are taking 3rd grade over for the 5th time. Your presence in these forums is judged by the quality of the thoughts and opinions expressed here.

[derekshank]

Than i shall inform you I am a 3.0 student at troy university... But hey... Ill just leave you to your opinion...

*shrug*

I don't care if you are a Rhodes scholar or a professor at MIT. I don't care if you are taking 3rd grade over for the 5th time. Your presence in these forums is judged by the quality of the thoughts and opinions expressed here.

One of the reasons I've never had (too much of) a problem with TJ is that I've never got the feeling that he's actually telling another person that they are a worthless human being... but that their opinions about the Bengals are worthless.

For instance... I'm sure there are people out there with IQs over 200 who would seem like blithering idiots on these boards. They aren't stupid, but they don't belong here - because intelligence and knowledge are not synonyms.

I can usually tell when someone is truly "intelligent" (or at least confident enough in their own intelligence), because they tend to be flexible in their own opinions when new information is introduced. Thus, the merging of intelligence and knowledge.

For instance... when Matt Jones was first signed, I saw him as a 6'6" WR, and thought Palmer would love a target that size. However, there has been a massive amount of new information brought to light that shows he's not all that talented as a WR. Then there were additions of new WRs who are locks for the roster (Bryant, Shipley) , and the steady improvement of others (Caldwell, Simpson). Take in all that information and it's not hard to reevaluate the opinion and see Matt Jones as one of the more likely candidates for the cutting block.

However, some continue to see nothing but his height, weight, and 2005 combine numbers. The inability to adapt new information to these opinions is evidence of either a lack of intelligence, lack of knowledge, or a lack of confidence to admit to having once had a flawed opinion. Regardless... it's an opinion that TJ will continue to be more than happy to trounce when given the opportunity. And given how slow the news comes in during late June/early July... I find it all rather entertaining.

[derekshank]

It's hard to get on the field if you're not active on Sundays. And since the bengals only activate 4 WRs on Sundays (unless they play special teams) Matt Jones wouldn't be active. Thus he would not see the field... 3rd down, redzone, or otherwise. He'd be watching on TV like the rest of us. Hey, maybe he and Simpson could have a BBQ.

I don't doubt that you're right, and here's something I don't understand - why do teams shy away from telling under-performing vets that maybe they ought to try some special teams so they can dress? Does Matt Jones not have aptitude toward special teams, or is he likely just not willing to do it?

Same would apply to Simpson the last 2 years as well. Anybody know if they tried him at it, and if so did he suck?

Not sure... but here's my guess.

A veteran who has to learn a new role as a STer will probably not be as productive as a guy who makes the roster solely because of his ST skills. Because ultimately, he wouldn't be a STer who can also be a back-up WR... but a back-up WR who can also be a STer. It's a little backwards.

You'll also see that guys who contribute a lot in STs don't often get on the field much in other capacities. The best example I can think of is Bernard Scott. He was great in kick-off returns, but they took him out of that role when he was forced to be the starting RB. I think they don't like to give double duty when they can avoid it. A veteran WR likely won't excel at special teams, but the coaches would also likely keep him off of the field as a WR to avoid fatigue. It doesn't make a ton of sense.

That's how I see it at least. Not really sure if that's the whole reason or not... but I think people tend to devalue the role of STers on the roster - and want the 6 best pure WRs to make the team. But you'll hear every coach in the NFL say that STs is a 3rd of the game. STers are terribly important, and have a specific skill set that not every pure WR has.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

A veteran who has to learn a new role as a STer will probably not be as productive as a guy who makes the roster solely because of his ST skills. Because ultimately, he wouldn't be a STer who can also be a back-up WR... but a back-up WR who can also be a STer. It's a little backwards.

I get that, but most of the guys who are STers now weren't in college, since they were the stars and all wherever they were. But some try it, and some work out, and others get cut. I was sort of wondering if Jones is too much of a diva to at least try it, and whether he ever had. Because hey, maybe he could do it, maybe not. I do agree with you on the merit of special teams, so let's not just throw out a stiff and hope he can cover kicks.

You'll also see that guys who contribute a lot in STs don't often get on the field much in other capacities. The best example I can think of is Bernard Scott. He was great in kick-off returns, but they took him out of that role when he was forced to be the starting RB. I think they don't like to give double duty when they can avoid it.

In that situation the issue is risk to a starter, which makes sense - you can't have teams targeting your starting RB on kickoffs. But the number 5/6 guy would be a different story.

That's how I see it at least. Not really sure if that's the whole reason or not... but I think people tend to devalue the role of STers on the roster - and want the 6 best pure WRs to make the team. But you'll hear every coach in the NFL say that STs is a 3rd of the game. STers are terribly important, and have a specific skill set that not every pure WR has.

Agreed. More just curiosity on my part, because so many of these guys who get drafted in the first round don't want to play ST since that's seen as what the bottom of the roster does. And that mindset seems to continue later in their careers when they're no longer the cool kid and looking at getting cut. But if I'm Jones and looking at the cut line, I'm begging to get out on ST.

And for what it's worth - if he switched from QB to WR, why not? Again, not saying he *is* any good at it, and I wouldn't dump Cosby for him.