Defensive Front 7

[ArmyBengal]

Seeing as how most have had enough of the Chad talk, I thought I'd change things up a bit and see what everyone was thinking in regards to the defensive front 7.

To start, the Bengals carried 6 linebackers and 8 d-linemen last season and there's no reason to think that will change much.

I combined the whole front 7 due to the fact Michael Johnson may end up playing more OLB this upcoming season.

They drafted Carlos Dunlap in the 2nd, Geno Atkins in the 3rd, and Roddrick Muckelroy in the 4th round. I think there will a real battle at the DE spot with Odom coming back from injury, Rucker, Fanene (both of whom have been solid yet unspectacular) and Geathers (who many feel is overpaid). I think if there is going to be a surprise cut, it will come at the defensive end spot (Geathers maybe in an uncapped year).

The linebacking corps should be interesting as well. Will Jeanty come back from his injury well ?? Are they going to get Rey into the middle, reducing Dhani's snaps ?? Does Michael Johnson make the permanent move to OLB ?? There are many variables and think it will also depend on the play of the other rookies in camp to make the final call.

Sims has also been hurt and by my account hasn't progressed that much. I could be wrong on that, but view it as a perfect opportunity for one Mr. Atkins to really show his burst and ability to disrupt some stuff in the middle.

Michael Johnson is really going to be the joker in how all of this shakes out. If he's viewed as the OLB of the future, it could allow more flexibility on the line.

I know it's still early, but from what we've heard to this point, this is my best stab at the defensive front 7.

D-line:

DE- Odom, Geathers (Backups: Dunlap and Fanene who can play the middle)

DT- Peko, Tank (Backups: Atkins and Sims)

I think the frozen desert has finally had his last day in stripes and if Michael Johnson doesn't make the move to OLB, Geathers could be the surprise cut at DE.

LB Corps:

WLB- Keith Rivers (Backup: Brandon Johnson)

MLB- Rey Maualuga (Backup: Dhani Jones)

SLB- Michael Johnson (Backup: Roddrick Muckelroy)

It's hard to think they won't keep at least one of Hodge or Skuta, as I think they like both of them, but who do you cut to make that happen ?? Could Dhani be a surprise cut from the LB corps ?? The only way they are able to keep one of those guys is if Michael Johnson stays at DE, but up to this point, that isn't the talk coming from the OTA's.

Once again, I know it's still early, but to change things up in the conversation, throw your opinion out there and lets hear what people are thinking.

I think this roster is finally to a point where there will be some good players being shown the door. Kind of a nice problem to have.

[JoePong]

Hate to tell you this, but Geathers and Dhani Jones are locks to make the team. You are insane if you think otherwise. Especially Geathers. He may be our best D-Lineman.

[ArmyBengal]

Hate to tell you this, but Geathers and Dhani Jones are locks to make the team. You are insane if you think otherwise. Especially Geathers. He may be our best D-Lineman.

Wow, thanks. It's meant to give something further to discuss. Here's an idea, why don't you just give your opinion about what you think WILL happen with the defensive front 7 as opposed to being one of the people that just bashes away without any real input ?? The word "surprise" would indicate that it's not something I actually expect to happen right ??

[redsbengalsbucks]

Hate to tell you this, but Geathers and Dhani Jones are locks to make the team. You are insane if you think otherwise. Especially Geathers. He may be our best D-Lineman.

Wow, thanks. It's meant to give something further to discuss. Here's an idea, why don't you just give your opinion about what you think WILL happen with the defensive front 7 as opposed to being one of the people that just bashes away without any real input ?? The word "surprise" would indicate that it's not something I actually expect to happen right ??

Another Pongian revelation!!

[jjakq27]

Hate to tell you this, but Geathers and Dhani Jones are locks to make the team. You are insane if you think otherwise. Especially Geathers. He may be our best D-Lineman.

Wow, thanks. It's meant to give something further to discuss. Here's an idea, why don't you just give your opinion about what you think WILL happen with the defensive front 7 as opposed to being one of the people that just bashes away without any real input ?? The word "surprise" would indicate that it's not something I actually expect to happen right ??

What's a mother to do?

[Wraith]

DEs: Odom, Geathers, Dunlap, Michael Johnson. Johnson may get some looks at OLB but as long as they are in a 4-3 we need our pass rushers at DE and Johnson has freakish ability. Dunlap and Odom can also rotate in and play DT if needed. If they keep 5 DEs than you have to add Fanene which I would because that group has some pretty good chemistry. Rucker is the odd man out, I fear, and I hope he doesn't catch on to the Browns because he could make us pay.

DTs: Peko, Tank Johnson, Atkins, Sims...I could see them cutting Sims and keeping MacDonald which would be my "surprise cut". Sims didn't play well last year and they are not talking him up this year which for this team is a really bad sign. Peko, Johnson, and Atkins are locks.

I think they keep 9 D-Linemen and keep Fanene.

OLBs: Maualuga, Rivers, Brandon Johnson

MLBs: Dhani Jones, Muckelroy

They keep Vincent Rey on the PS and bid adieu to Jeanty who makes plays but not enough of them to keep a spot on this competitive roster. Brandon Johnson can rotate to either side and Muckelroy can play all three positions (which is why they drafted him). I disagree with putting Maualuga in the middle, he hasn't had OTAs to work him at that position and too many position moves too quickly can spell disaster for an aggressive player like Maualuga.

The DB contest will also be very interesting.

[ArmyBengal]

DEs: Odom, Geathers, Dunlap, Michael Johnson. Johnson may get some looks at OLB but as long as they are in a 4-3 we need our pass rushers at DE and Johnson has freakish ability. Dunlap and Odom can also rotate in and play DT if needed. If they keep 5 DEs than you have to add Fanene which I would because that group has some pretty good chemistry. Rucker is the odd man out, I fear, and I hope he doesn't catch on to the Browns because he could make us pay.

DTs: Peko, Tank Johnson, Atkins, Sims...I could see them cutting Sims and keeping MacDonald which would be my "surprise cut". Sims didn't play well last year and they are not talking him up this year which for this team is a really bad sign. Peko, Johnson, and Atkins are locks.

I think they keep 9 D-Linemen and keep Fanene.

OLBs: Maualuga, Rivers, Brandon Johnson

MLBs: Dhani Jones, Muckelroy

They keep Vincent Rey on the PS and bid adieu to Jeanty who makes plays but not enough of them to keep a spot on this competitive roster. Brandon Johnson can rotate to either side and Muckelroy can play all three positions (which is why they drafted him). I disagree with putting Maualuga in the middle, he hasn't had OTAs to work him at that position and too many position moves too quickly can spell disaster for an aggressive player like Maualuga.

The DB contest will also be very interesting.

Thank you for actually adding something to the mix Wraith.

I'll save the DB debate for another thread.

[BengalPimp]

Today, this is a decision that nobody could make, but I guess that's the fun in it....

Since teams usually have until the first week of September to cut down to the Final 53 man roster (und usually until the very end of August/beginning Sept to even cut down to 75) It would be a total guess right now....But here it goes.

DE: Odom, Geathers, Fanene, Dunlap (we'll have to wait and see which position they list for Michael Johnson) I think you have to keep Fanene, especially if they let go of Rucker, because of his value in moving inside on passing downs.

DT: Peko, Tank, Sims, Atkins. The big surprise here might be if Sims' injured forearm isn't healed up enough to start the season and lands him on the Reserve PUP list, meaning he will miss the first 6 weeks of the season. Again, at this point it's all speculation. He scheduled to be ready for training camp, but I haven't heard any progress on his injury...so...If he's not ready to go, I think they keep Rucker as DE/DT

.

WLB (WILL): Rivers, B.Johnson

MLB (MIKE): Jones

SLB (SAM): Maualuga, Jeanty

I know, I know, only 5 LB's, but Michael Johnson will probably be listed there making it 6, and since Maualuga can also play middle, he provides the back-up for Dhani. You'll notice the absence of Muckelroy....I think he ends up on the practice squad when the season starts....and for those who think he will automatically be scooped up by another team, understand that if another team does sign him off our practice squad, they IMMEDIATELY MUST add him to their 53 Man roster.....and those other teams will have likely cut talented players too....I don't worry too much about losing PS players until midway through the season when injuries start piling up accross the league.

So, there's my early opinion.

[ArmyBengal]

I think the thing with Muckelroy is his versatility and while I understand another team plucking him off of our PS would mean they have to add him to their 53 roster, I also think there are teams that are in need of a versatile LB as some LB corps in the league aren't very good. It could go either way and agree wholeheartedly that it's early, but as you said, it is the fun in having the coversation. It's all speculative at this point.

[Kazkal]

5 linebackers = Won't happen if anything we'll keep 6 1/2 (MJ being the half or even 7th)

-Marvin Lewis Loves Linebackers this has been clear since he first came to Cinci

-Though He was only a 4th Rounder I don't see the team giving up on him that quickly

-The Team Won't go light at linebacker because their key to special teams...six minium Possible to carry seven..

-If Mucklyroy isn't seen as a future starter then it may be He's Brandon Johnsons replacement someone who can backup multiple positions and come in on passing downs

I see us Keeping 8 Dlinemen 7 Linebackers (MJ being the 7th / 9th Dlinemen) and 10 Defensive Backs

I know it's Front 7 but doing entire Defense.

DE:Odom,Geathers,Fanene, Dunlap

DT:Peko,Tank,Sims & geno

WLB:Keith & B.Johnson

MLB:Dhani & Hodge (though Rey would be 2nd on depth chart)

SlB:Rey,Muckleroy & MJ

CB:Joseph,Hall,Jones,Trent,Ghee

FS:Crocker,Wilson

SS:Roy,Ndukwe,Hebert

PS,As for teams not touching Practice Squad didn't we lose Chris Pressley last year who we could actually really use now? Because we placed the wrong guy on practice squad...Ya

[ArmyBengal]

There will be another thread talking about the secondary, so lets hold off for now.

Focus people, focus...

[bwillycuse]

Need a bigger roster. 3 more spots would be helpful.

I think injury will help decide who stays. But yeah - Rucker could be at risk, though he produces when he gets on the field.

Does everyone here think Odom will be able to regain his form after the achilles?

Is a healthy experienced Rucker better (more valuable) than an inexperienced rookie?(atkins) I know its not but hate to lose production for potential.

We really cant afford to keep a 3rd QB. We need every spot on this roster for people that may produce. Sorry Jordan. Or maybe sorry JT because Jordan steps it up.

Our practice squad will be coveted.

[HairOnFire]

A lifetime of experience reminds me how unlikely is the outcome where the Bengals are forced to cut any of the players mentioned, from Rucker to Sims to Geathers.

Attrition will decide things.

[BengalPimp]

PS,As for teams not touching Practice Squad didn't we lose Chris Pressley last year who we could actually really use now? Because we placed the wrong guy on practice squad...Ya

We did...But if you re-read what I wrote, my exact words were.......I don't worry too much about losing PS players until midway through the season when injuries start piling up accross the league.

Tampa Bay signed Pressley after 7 games (about midway through the season, like I said above). Teams don't generally do that the first few weeks.

I like Muckelroy, and I hope there is a roster spot available for him, but if we're going to potentially go heavy at WR, 1 position has to go light. I think it might be LB because Michael Johnson can be used as a LB also. Again, it's early and we have to see who does what in training camp and pre-season.

[Kazkal]

Well it seems like Zimmer & Co are big on how MJ has been taking to his new Role so more likely be the 9th Dlinemen / 7th Linebacker...

Can't wait to see him in action !

I like Muckelroy, and I hope there is a roster spot available for him, but if we're going to potentially go heavy at WR, 1 position has to go light. I think it might be LB because Michael Johnson can be used as a LB also. Again, it's early and we have to see who does what in training camp and pre-season.

Even if MJ is labeled as a LB it's still position I doubt they'll go light...I just can't see them only going with 5 Linebackers including MJ...I'd even put money they go heavy on LB before they go light.

[HoosierCat]

Food for thought from Zimmer today on that perennially popular subject, the 3-4.

Some of the changes have included trying some 3-4 alignments where Michael Johnson, Antwan Odom and Robert Geathers could play on the outside as stand up rushers. It’s possible that the Bengals could play some 3-4 this season but in no way is there a move toward a permanent shift to that.

Said Zimmer of the 3-4: “Some of the coverages we play fit exactly to it. A year ago we tried to do it a little bit but made it too complicated based on fronts. This year we have simplified it.”

Hmmm. Johnson+Odom+Geathers...me likey. Also this:

Zimmer though had the most praise for Michael Johnson, who has been working out at linebacker since the beginning of the on-field sessions last month. Zimmer said he didn’t know if the second-year player could play linebacker but now is so sure that he said he could play all three spots. Johnson has been playing mostly in the SAM (outside) spot.

Johnson at SAM and Rey-Rey in the middle...?

And finally, no tears over no Taylor Mays:

Zimmer has been pleased with the upgrades at safety, especially the addition of Gibril Wilson along with lauding the improvement of Chinedum Ndukwe, saying that the fourth-year player is playing with better technique and discipline along with paying attention to doing things the way the coaching staff wants him to do it.

Upgrades at safety. Nice.

Linky

[Kazkal]

Johnson at SAM and Rey-Rey in the middle...?

And finally, no tears over no Taylor Mays:

I ain't crying because I like what I see,Even though I really wanted Mays it's because felt he'd be next Roy Williams but hey we still have the real thing!

Love me some Dhani but MJ,Keith & Rey playing linebacker makes me drool

[ArmyBengal]

3-4 sets would just baffle me a little bit in the selection of personel to man the spots. If Odom takes the NT spot in that alignment, what about Tank, Peko, or even Atkins ?? If MJ takes a DE spot, does Brandon Johnson take one of the LB spots ?? It seems like the best scenario would be (realizing we haven't heard much) Dunlap, Odom, Geathers with MJ, Rey, Dhani, and Rivers manning the LB spots. I'm sure that could go a bunch of different way, but getting the speed infused into that would seem key to me. Heck, Brandon Johnson wouldn't look bad in that scenario either.

It certainly would allow them to throw many different looks at opposing offenses !!!

[HoosierCat]

3-4 sets would just baffle me a little bit in the selection of personel to man the spots. If Odom takes the NT spot in that alignment, what about Tank, Peko, or even Atkins ??

I think you would see some combination of Tank, Peko and Sims at the NT and 3-4 DE spots, with Odom, Geathers, MJ playing the role of 3-4 backers.

[Kazkal]

Think the 3-4 will be mainly as a hybrid someone stands up Dline Shifts but Doubt we'll ever see it for majority of the game.

4-3 that can switch 3-4

Ends MJ & Odom (Odom plays 3-4 end if MJ stands up)

Tackles:Tank & Peko (Peko would be the NT)

If they Sub Players I'd Think Tank & Fanene would be the ends & Odom + MJ would be the OLB's

Zimmer also says he's got a 3-4 nose tackle in Domata Peko, a guy he says "can play for any team in this league."

Seems Peko would be favorite to play NT.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, I wasn't saying it was going to be the base. I can't see this Zimmer ran defense EVER running a 3-4 base. Only thinking how the alignment would look when they ran it. Peko would certainly be alright by me at NT in those situations they ran it and they certainly are looking like they will have a bunch of options with Dunlap and MJ being able to bring some pressure as well.

Dunlap is going to be one of the guys I watch real close this season when he gets his shots.

[ArmyBengal]

I could have made this another thread, but it seems to apply here the most.

It also would appear they think they have that Joker LB in Michael Johnson as well.

Nice read !!!

No.1 Goal

So much has been written about the problems and perils facing Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer’s offense this spring, but after years of facing elite defenses in the AFC North Palmer finds himself working against one every day in practice.

“If after Week 16 we went against the No. 1 defense in the league during OTAs, all training camp, all season, I won’t be surprised,” Palmer said after Wednesday morning’s practice. “They’ve got a chance to be. Why not? We don’t look a mess out there, but they make it difficult for us. We have to work hard for every yard and first down we get. It’s good for us. We play in a very tough defensive division.”

The Bengals defense has gone from No. 27 to No. 4 in two seasons under coordinator Mike Zimmer and left end Robert Geathers, one of two players that has worked for all three of head coach Marvin Lewis’ defensive coordinators, says they can go higher.

“That’s our goal,” Geathers said. "We’re definitely making strides toward that. We’ve got more chemistry, more talent, more depth at more positions. We’re more comfortable with one another. That’s the big thing.

“We’ve never had this many guys we can move around. There’s a lot of different looks. We’re excited about it.”

Zimmer has been able to put so much in because of the consistency in personnel and coaching of the past three years that he said after the morning practice Wednesday, “We’ve got too much in. We couldn’t have done half of this stuff (two years ago).”

But it doesn’t seem to be hurting things if you ask Palmer after he had a couple of frames from practice frozen in his mind. He dropped back, scanned the field and said to himself, “Man, that’s perfect coverage.”

“They didn’t bite on the decoy of the route,” Palmer said. “They stayed on the right leverage. They all stayed inside. There’s always a team that screws it up at some point. All you need is one weak link, but when you have 11 guys working in unison, it’s hard to find and rare to see. We’ve got some really athletic guys, but it’s the whole defense. They didn’t bite on outside action. They stayed inside their man with right leverage, right drops. And they moved with the same speed. They all moved at the right depth. You don’t see that. That’s special.”

Zimmer has been emphasizing not so much sacks, but pressure. Disrupting the quarterback. Make him throw it quickly or where he doesn’t want to throw it. Palmer has noticed.

“They can bring every pressure,” he said. “Some teams can only bring weak pressure, or pressure from (the strong side), but they can bring it from anywhere with any of their personnel groups. They can bluff it and it's really hard to pick up. It’s a tough thing to get a play off after a bluff. Most defenses let one (offensive) guy through or let one guy go and they don’t do that and let you score an easy touchdown. They’re all in the right place. It’s having good players. It’s also really good coaching.”

Symbolic of this versatile, smart, tough defense besides Zimmer himself is the man moved from right end to try SAM linebacker this spring. Second-year man Michael Johnson, a 6-7, 265-pound physical wunderkind that has proven to Zimmer he can not only play SAM, but WILL and middle linebacker.

With his ability to line up with his hand on the ground at end and rush the passer, Johnson forms a dangerous trio with Geathers and Antwan Odom, two ends that can, at times, stand up at backer. With SAM backers Rey Maualuga and Rashad Jeanty still recovering from late-season broken legs, Johnson has received plenty of snaps with the first team.

“I knew he could play linebacker when I switched him there,” said Lewis, who saw glimpses of it in practice last year. “He’s the most talented guy I’ve had (make the switch).”

Johnson says the toughest thing about the move is knowing what the rest of the defense is doing while adjusting to the shifts and motions of the offense.

“On the line, they pretty much tell you what to do and you go,” said Johnson, who quickly said the Bengals have smart linemen when Geathers gave him the evil eye with a laugh.

It is that chemistry he was talking about. Despite his injury, Jeanty has been coaching up Johnson. It was Jeanty who made the transition from end to backer coming out of Canada quicker than No. 1 pick David Pollack when he came out of Georgia. Throw in linebackers coach Jeff FitzGerald’s experience with the versatile Ravens backers and Johnson’s immense physical and mental gifts are getting mentored to the hilt.

“To play linebacker, you’ve got to be smart, but you’ve got to be intense, too,” Johnson said. “Fitz says everybody’s got that dog in him. It’s in there somewhere. It’s a mentality that’s learned. That’s the kind of thing that’s been passed on to me: ‘We’re here and we’re not going to take any crap.’ Our whole linebacking corps as players takes mentality. Coach Fitz is the type of guy that demands respect and everyone respects him. All he cares about is the product he puts on the field. Being one of his guys, that rubs off on you.”

The Bengals seem to have that perfect brew of coaching, brains and athleticism on the back burner bubbling that only guys like Palmer can whiff. On and off the field. Asked about Johnson’s sudden progress at a different position, middle linebacker Dhani Jones shrugged.

“Hey, he was Valedictorian of his high school class,” Jones said. “That tells you something. You’ve got to be smart.”

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/No-1-goal/5a9a76dd-27a8-4262-be50-aa4054049952

[HairOnFire]

“That’s our goal,” Geathers said. "We’re definitely making strides toward that. We’ve got more chemistry, more talent, more depth at more positions. We’re more comfortable with one another. That’s the big thing.

“We’ve never had this many guys we can move around. There’s a lot of different looks. We’re excited about it.”

This one will be hard to explain, but I have to admit one of my very favorite plays from last season resulted in a 20 yard gain, and a 1st down, for the Steelers.

Why?

Second down and long. The Bengals D-line flashes a four man front with Geathers and Rucker at the ends and Peko and Sims inside. Just pror to the snap of the ball Geathers begins drifting backward away from the line. Seconds later the ball is snapped and after pausing a beat Sims, like Geathers, also drops 20 yards deep into pass coverage. As for Rucker, he engages a RT/TE double team with a bull rush so effective he soon draws the attention of a chip blocking RB...thereby soaking up his 3rd blocker. Meanwhile, Peko swings wide right and engages the Steeler LT...who he promptly tosses aside. So now it's Peko unleashed....with a full head of steam. Sadly, Roethlisberger feels the pressure and gets rid of the ball a split second before a now unblocked Peko crashes into his ribs at full speed.

So, you're probably wondering why the play is one of my favorites if the pass is completed and results in a 1st down, right?

Because after being helped to his feet...and after a teammate adjusted Ben's helmet so that he was no longer staring blankly out of the ear hole...and after everyone had finished pulling the grass and mud from Ben's facemask...they showed the replay of Peko's hit. And there for the whole world to see were all three Steeler interior lineman blocking nothing but air while a delayed two-man Bengal pass rush succesfully blasted Roethlisberger in much the same way a helmetless motorcycle rider might find himself blasted by an old woman driving a Chrysler New Yorker.

[HoosierCat]

Does Michael Johnson make the permanent move to OLB ?? T

Apparently so. The official roster page now lists him as an LB

[Kazkal]

Does Michael Johnson make the permanent move to OLB ?? T

Apparently so. The official roster page now lists him as an LB

I like it,he just looks like a linebacker more then he does DE and this way we can abuse his speed and athleticism.