Where is Marvin's Extension?

[HoosierCat]

The B-word returns...

  Quote

I'm also hearing an indoor practice facility appears to be one point of contention between Bengals ownership and head coach Marvin Lewis. It's no secret that it gets very cold in Ohio during the winter, and the Bengals' only options are to practice outside in inclement weather or travel approximately 20 miles each way to a training complex in Mason, Ohio. Usually these bus trips, which can be even more challenging during rush-hour traffic, happen late in the season when the stakes are the highest. Lewis also has one year left on his contract and spoke at the NFL combine about making sure the proper things are in place to maintain a winning culture.

[Stripes]

I feel very little doubt that Marvin will be extended.

[HairOnFire]

So one sportswriter told another sportswriter that some other sportswriter thinks the holdup might be over a practice bubble?

Garbage in...garbage out.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/9/2010 at 11:23 PM, HairOnFire said:

So one sportswriter told another sportswriter that some other sportswriter thinks the holdup might be over a practice bubble?

Garbage in...garbage out.

Sure seems like that rumor's popping up a lot for 'garbage'. I'll see your metaphor and raise you - where there's smoke, there's fire.

Since you seem convinced that there's no issue here, I take it you'll go on record as guaranteeing that Marvin will be our coach next year, backed by the full faith and credit of your sterling reputation (cough) ?

[HairOnFire]

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:06 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Sure seems like that rumor's popping up a lot for 'garbage'.

I say it's garbage until you can point to a quote from any of the individual directly involved. Until then all you've got is a sportswriter tossing out vague yammerings from a completely uncredited source.

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:06 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Since you seem convinced that there's no issue here, I take it you'll go on record as guaranteeing that Marvin will be our coach next year, backed by the full faith and credit of your sterling reputation (cough) ?

Sure, why not? The worst thing that could happen is I might be proven wrong, prompting some to wonder if I might be a know-nothing azzhole. But you seem to be holding up under that very burden well enough...(poot)....so I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:37 PM, HairOnFire said:

I say it's garbage until you can point to a quote from any of the individual directly involved. Until then all you've got is a sportswriter tossing out vague yammerings from a completely uncredited source.

That standard's a touch too high. You know quite well that neither of the principals involved are 'go to the media' types. I think it's reasonable to credit some degree of accuracy if the same info keeps popping up from multiple quarters.

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:06 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Sure, why not? The worst thing that could happen is I might be proven wrong, prompting some to wonder if I might be a know-nothing azzhole. But you seem to be holding up under that very burden well enough...(poot)....

The more interesting question is if you could hold up under the pressure of seeing your hero make the biggest blunder in his career as owner - and that's rather a high standard. And you might want to see somebody about that gas problem.

[HairOnFire]

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:56 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:37 PM, HairOnFire said:

I say it's garbage until you can point to a quote from any of the individual directly involved. Until then all you've got is a sportswriter tossing out vague yammerings from a completely uncredited source.

That standard's a touch too high.

Let's not quibble. Suffice to say your standards are lower.

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:56 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

I think it's reasonable to credit some degree of accuracy if the same info keeps popping up from multiple quarters.

Please, the internet wouldn't exist if not for bloggers and media hacks rehashing and repackaging the same vague inuendo and unfounded rumors. Even newly crowned king of information Mike Florio admits he often makes up stories from whole cloth simply to see the reaction from fans.

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:56 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

The more interesting question is if you could hold up under the pressure of seeing your hero make the biggest blunder in his career as owner - and that's rather a high standard.

What pressure am I under? I'm more than willing to see how things play out, and if we eventually learn that Marvin Lewis doesn't return due to the lack of a practice bubble, well....wouldn't that make him a bit of a moron?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/10/2010 at 9:20 PM, HairOnFire said:

Please, the internet wouldn't exist if not for bloggers and media hacks rehashing and repackaging the same vague inuendo and unfounded rumors.

Do we know that's what's happening here? You seem overly eager to discredit this rumor, Lady MacBeth.

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:56 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

What pressure am I under? I'm more than willing to see how things play out, and if we eventually learn that Marvin Lewis doesn't return due to the lack of a practice bubble, well....wouldn't that make him a bit of a moron?

No, every camel has his straw. Bear in mind, Marvin effectively becomes a free agent, so it's not at all inconceivable that he could remain highly marketable yet become sick of Mikey's antics, leading him to simply jump ship.

If he comes to the conclusion that he would be happier and have a better chance of winning on a professionally-run franchise, that's his option. And I don't think that many people familiar with the Bengals would think him a moron for doing so.

[HairOnFire]

  On 8/10/2010 at 11:32 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

  On 8/10/2010 at 9:20 PM, HairOnFire said:

Please, the internet wouldn't exist if not for bloggers and media hacks rehashing and repackaging the same vague inuendo and unfounded rumors.

Do we know that's what's happening here?

No, you don't....and that's exactly the point.

  On 8/10/2010 at 11:32 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

You seem overly eager to discredit this rumor, Lady MacBeth.

And you seem determined to drown yourself in a puddle of muddied water, my dearest Ophelia.

As for rumors, there's another one in this very thread claiming Mike Brown won't allow Marvin to coach another year because it would result in a longer run as head coach than Paul Brown managed. So, are you buying that one too? And if not why not?

  On 8/10/2010 at 11:32 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Bear in mind, Marvin effectively becomes a free agent, so it's not at all inconceivable that he could remain highly marketable yet become sick of Mikey's antics, leading him to simply jump ship.

Or maybe Marvin wants more money. Maybe he wants a deal comparable to the one Mike Tomlin just signed. And maybe, just maybe...he's using the bubble issue as a bargaining chip he'll drop in exchange for more coin? It's possible, right? But you can't really comment on whether these things might be true because you don't know shid.

  On 8/10/2010 at 11:32 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

If he comes to the conclusion that he would be happier and have a better chance of winning on a professionally-run franchise, that's his option. And I don't think that many people familiar with the Bengals would think him a moron for doing so.

Who cares what unfairly biased people think?

So far you've gotten your panties bunched because a new deal wasn't signed months ago and now you've freshly wadded them again based upon James Walker saying he's hearing things from people he doesn't bother to name. So all things considered it's pretty clear you're determined to bitch about this thing even though you currently don't have a single fact or quote to base your panty bunching upon.

[ArmyBengal]

While I still think pretty firmly that Marvin will be back next season, it's not based on anything I can point to outside of what Marvin has said.

That being the case, if his decision to leave is actually based on not being able to get a practice bubble, I wouldn't consider him a moron.

I would however consider him the dumbest f*cking coach in the history of the NFL.

Just stupid...

[whizzo]

while i hope it'll be Zimmer (along with a new OC), realistically, it'll be Lewis.

[ArmyBengal]

All I'm looking for is an extension in the same fold that Zimmer got in regards to years.

After that, reevaluate what you have and go from there in regards to both.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:53 AM, HairOnFire said:

As for rumors, there's another one in this very thread claiming Mike Brown won't allow Marvin to coach another year because it would result in a longer run as head coach than Paul Brown managed. So, are you buying that one too? And if not why not?

The rumors of Marvin's discontent claim to have a source. The notion that Mikey won't let a coach steal Daddy's crown is simple, pure speculation. There's a bit of a difference there. So no, I don't lend much credence to that notion. On that point, I'll certainly agree it was a writer trying to sell copies.

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:53 AM, HairOnFire said:

Or maybe Marvin wants more money. Maybe he wants a deal comparable to the one Mike Tomlin just signed. And maybe, just maybe...he's using the bubble issue as a bargaining chip he'll drop in exchange for more coin? It's possible, right? But you can't really comment on whether these things might be true because you don't know shid.

So your realm of possibilities there is 'Mikey is cheap' or 'Mikey is cheap.' Seems all roads lead to Rome here.

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:53 AM, HairOnFire said:

Who cares what unfairly biased people think?

So far you've gotten your panties bunched because a new deal wasn't signed months ago and now you've freshly wadded them again based upon James Walker saying he's hearing things from people he doesn't bother to name. So all things considered it's pretty clear you're determined to bitch about this thing even though you currently don't have a single fact or quote to base your panty bunching upon.

Look, there's a reason (actually many) why professionally-run organizations don't let coaches reach their last year. Demonstrably bad on face. I've posed it before, but I'd love to know the last time a coach reached the end of his contract and then re-upped. I'd be surprised if it's happened in the last 10 years at all. Not having a new deal by now is bad. The only thing to speculate about is the 'why'.

And I'll thank you to leave my undergarments out of the discussion.

[redsbengalsbucks]

  On 8/11/2010 at 2:59 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:53 AM, HairOnFire said:

As for rumors, there's another one in this very thread claiming Mike Brown won't allow Marvin to coach another year because it would result in a longer run as head coach than Paul Brown managed. So, are you buying that one too? And if not why not?

The rumors of Marvin's discontent claim to have a source. The notion that Mikey won't let a coach steal Daddy's crown is simple, pure speculation. There's a bit of a difference there. So no, I don't lend much credence to that notion. On that point, I'll certainly agree it was a writer trying to sell copies.

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:53 AM, HairOnFire said:

Or maybe Marvin wants more money. Maybe he wants a deal comparable to the one Mike Tomlin just signed. And maybe, just maybe...he's using the bubble issue as a bargaining chip he'll drop in exchange for more coin? It's possible, right? But you can't really comment on whether these things might be true because you don't know shid.

So your realm of possibilities there is 'Mikey is cheap' or 'Mikey is cheap.' Seems all roads lead to Rome here.

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:53 AM, HairOnFire said:

Who cares what unfairly biased people think?

So far you've gotten your panties bunched because a new deal wasn't signed months ago and now you've freshly wadded them again based upon James Walker saying he's hearing things from people he doesn't bother to name. So all things considered it's pretty clear you're determined to bitch about this thing even though you currently don't have a single fact or quote to base your panty bunching upon.

Look, there's a reason (actually many) why professionally-run organizations don't let coaches reach their last year. Demonstrably bad on face. I've posed it before, but I'd love to know the last time a coach reached the end of his contract and then re-upped. I'd be surprised if it's happened in the last 10 years at all. Not having a new deal by now is bad. The only thing to speculate about is the 'why'.

And I'll thank you to leave my undergarments out of the discussion.

I think Coughlin in NYG was working on his last year when they one the big one.

[HairOnFire]

  On 8/11/2010 at 2:59 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

The rumors of Marvin's discontent claim to have a source.

And what source would that be? Is it reliable? Is it a source that has a direct link to the ongoing negotiations or is it someone who sweeps the parking lot at PBS? Can you answer any of these questions? And if not...how high are your standards?

  On 8/11/2010 at 2:59 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

The notion that Mikey won't let a coach steal Daddy's crown is simple, pure speculation. There's a bit of a difference there. So no, I don't lend much credence to that notion. On that point, I'll certainly agree it was a writer trying to sell copies.

So you agree that writers sometimes offer speculation simply to sell papers, but you argue this example is different because of exactly what? Are you really satisfied by his claim that he heard something from somebody he won't name?

  On 8/11/2010 at 2:59 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

So your realm of possibilities there is 'Mikey is cheap' or 'Mikey is cheap.' Seems all roads lead to Rome here.

All roads lead to Rome precisely because you insist on going there. What fascinates me is just how little motivation was needed to set you upon your latest journey.

  On 8/11/2010 at 2:59 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Not having a new deal by now is bad. The only thing to speculate about is the 'why'.

Not having a deal now is little more than a curiosity and the impact of any decision made in the future, stay or go, won't be known for years. So why pre-bunch your panties in.....August?

  On 8/11/2010 at 2:59 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

And I'll thank you to leave my undergarments out of the discussion.

Did you just ask me to drop your undergarments?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:35 PM, HairOnFire said:

And what source would that be? Is it reliable? Is it a source that has a direct link to the ongoing negotiations or is it someone who sweeps the parking lot at PBS? Can you answer any of these questions?

Depends on how mis-construable the statement is and the reputation of the journalist. In this case, the writer is respectable and the claim seems fairly straightforward. I'm willing to give him some benefit of the doubt.

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:35 PM, HairOnFire said:

And if not...how high are your standards?

Well, I'm talking to you, so...yeah.

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:35 PM, HairOnFire said:

So you agree that writers sometimes offer speculation simply to sell papers, but you argue this example is different because of exactly what? Are you really satisfied by his claim that he heard something from somebody he won't name?

Claiming to have a source and saying 'maybe' are two different things. And making sources up is generally a journalistic offense worthy of dismissal or severe reprimand. I'm satisfied that if this guy says he heard something from a source that he did. Whether that source is correct is a matter for debate, sure. Here, given the specificity of the claim, I think it's a reasonable probability.

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:35 PM, HairOnFire said:

Not having a deal now is little more than a curiosity and the impact of any decision made in the future, stay or go, won't be known for years.

If that were the case, I don't think teams would go to the lengths they do to avoid having that situation occur. Otherwise, every team would let the coach's contract expire to avoid the possibility of having to pay him off after firing him. You're off on this one.

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:35 PM, HairOnFire said:

So why pre-bunch your panties in.....August?

Two reasons: 1) Marvin is the only guy who has brought the Bengals any success since Paul Brown died, and I fear that if he leaves Mikey will revert to his old tricks. We need Marvin badly. 2) You said it yourself - it's August. Note that other active threads focus on re-hash of the TO signing and what we'll do to replace Brian Leonard. It ain't exactly the high season here.

[HairOnFire]

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:57 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

In this case, the writer is respectable and the claim seems fairly straightforward. I'm willing to give him some benefit of the doubt.

Some, but how much? After all, it's James Walker...a guy rarely spoken of without the words "I'd like to punch him in the throat" being uttered.

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:57 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

I'm satisfied that if this guy says he heard something from a source that he did. Whether that source is correct is a matter for debate, sure.

Everything about the so-called source is a matter of debate. Based upon what Walker said you couldn't tell me if he spoke to someone who works for the team, someone who covers the team in the press, or even a blogger. In fact, for all you know Walker's source is Chick Ludwig's barber. Or even worse, Hoosier.

  On 8/11/2010 at 4:57 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Whether that source is correct is a matter for debate, sure. Here, given the specificity of the claim, I think it's a reasonable probability.

Ignoring issues like the writers credibility or the validity of his anonymous source for a moment....what exactly did Walker specifically claim? That he's heard a practice bubble is one source of contention holding up an agreement, right? So what are the others? How many might there be? And how would they be prioritized?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:37 PM, HairOnFire said:

Everything about the so-called source is a matter of debate. Based upon what Walker said you couldn't tell me if he spoke to someone who works for the team, someone who covers the team in the press, or even a blogger. In fact, for all you know Walker's source is Chick Ludwig's barber. Or even worse, Hoosier.

Again with the basic journalistic integrity thing.

  On 8/11/2010 at 5:37 PM, HairOnFire said:

....what exactly did Walker specifically claim? That he's heard a practice bubble is one source of contention holding up an agreement, right? So what are the others? How many might there be? And how would they be prioritized?

A very fair question. I personally can't believe Mikey would be dumb enough to low-ball Marvin. I think very little of him, but that would be a new low. So setting aside money, what could there be? It's not a regular job where he'll be negotiating health plan and stock options (unless he marries into the family). Any remaining issues are likely to pertain to control of operations of the team, right? So if such issues are holding up a deal, perhaps The Redeemer's recent success rolling the dice on recidivist losers is going to his head. I hope not, because for every Benson there's a Thurman.

[Kazkal]

  On 8/11/2010 at 12:27 PM, whizzo said:

while i hope it'll be Zimmer (along with a new OC), realistically, it'll be Lewis.

I'd settle for zimmer plus a new Offensive line coach.

[HairOnFire]

Joe Reedy puts some much needed meat on James Walkers unadorned slice of bread...

Is Marvin Lewis's demand for an indoor practice facility causing a snag in his extension?

It's one piece of a giant puzzle. I hear there are plans for a bubble in place along with some stadium upgrades, but lack of a CBA and threat of a lockout have a lot of things on hold.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/12/2010 at 7:35 PM, HairOnFire said:

Joe Reedy puts some much needed meat on James Walkers unadorned slice of bread...

Is Marvin Lewis's demand for an indoor practice facility causing a snag in his extension?

It's one piece of a giant puzzle. I hear there are plans for a bubble in place along with some stadium upgrades, but lack of a CBA and threat of a lockout have a lot of things on hold.

Ah, I hadn't even considered that angle. I assume Mikey wants to put in some language that would cut Marvin's salary in the event of a lockout, and Marvin probably isn't interested. Thing is, what's he gonna do? If a labor deal gets done, it'll probably be pushing well into next summer. That's just my guess based on how skewed the current deal is and because DeMaurice Smith is out to make a name for himself. But it's not like the Bengals can get to July without a head coach under contract. More than likely, he's going to have to hire a coach before the new CBA is done.

Alternately, what are the odds that he simply gives Zimmer a battlefield promotion, for no other reason than that his contract runs through next year and Marvin's doesn't? Would he let Marvin walk to save a few nickels?

[HairOnFire]

  On 8/12/2010 at 7:56 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Ah, I hadn't even considered that angle.

Of course you didn't, but in your defense....your panties were painfully pre-bunched.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:21 PM, HairOnFire said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 7:56 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Ah, I hadn't even considered that angle.

Of course you didn't, but in your defense....your panties were painfully pre-bunched.

Sometimes even I underestimate Mikey's cheapness. And I'm quite happy with the state of my undergarments. Your girdle, however, could use some loosening.

[HairOnFire]

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:39 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:21 PM, HairOnFire said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 7:56 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

Ah, I hadn't even considered that angle.

Of course you didn't, but in your defense....your panties were painfully pre-bunched.

Sometimes even I underestimate Mikey's cheapness.

The update didn't mention anything about Mike being cheap. In fact It mentioned how plans for a practice facility were in place, but on hold do to the lack of a CBA.

So I guess your next pre-bunched rant will blame Mikey for the lack of a CBA, right?

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:39 PM, DC_Bengals_Fan said:

And I'm quite happy with the state of my undergarments.

It's impossible to explain but being angry often makes a woman happy.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

  On 8/12/2010 at 9:01 PM, HairOnFire said:

The update didn't mention anything about Mike being cheap. In fact It mentioned how plans for a practice facility were in place, but on hold do to the lack of a CBA.

C'mon, think McFly. What does the CBA have to do with Marvin's contract or a practice bubble? Dollars.

And just to prove that I'm willing to give any dumb dog its day, Mikey's definitely not to blame for a lockout. The 30 owners who voted for the last CBA can be.