Palmer must improve

[HairOnFire]

All I know is the Bengals won a division championship and a playoff berth using a power running game so effective and cheaply constructed that it quickly surpassed the passing game in terms of importance.

Yup, and now the next step is to rebuild the passing game.

But that's the point. They attempt to rebuild the passing game every year.

The worst passing game was (surprise!) ours, while the worst two rushing teams made the tourney.

I'd say you've just undermined your own argument. Because as you point out the Bengals ARE a playoff team right now despite having an inept passing game. And they're a playoff team due to a running game built to perform behind an offensive line that still lacks talent, and a rugged defense that still can't rush the passer very well and currently relies on too many aging players.

How many Lombardis did the Jets win last season again?

The Jets managed to win the same number of Lombardis last year as the high flying Chargers have won in the last three decades. None. And while we're on the subject, how many championships have the Colts won during their decades long reign as the NFL's finest passing team? Just one, right? And it took how many years for pass first New Orleans to find the right combination needed to win it's first championship? Five years?

What makes you think drafting a safety or DE wont just land us another Lamont Thompson or Jason Buck?

How many years ago was Jason Buck drafted? Fifteen? Twenty? Now ask yourself how many years ago Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell, Matt Sherry, and Mario Urrutia were drafted?

You can keep trying to make comparisons that support your greedy rant, but none will. And they won't because you're attempting to ignore many of the Bengals most recent moves as if they had never happened.

Meanwhile, we can keep the winning ways going with our already solid D and running game, right?

The quickest way to failure is to ignore the things that made you successful in the first place.

The Bengals are a good team, which is precisely why they can afford to take some shots at shoring up the weakest part of their game.

But they've already done just that. Just two years ago they drafted a buttload of fresh young pass catchers in an orgy of waste and luxury you'd have them repeat again, and you do so despite the knowledge that both starting WR roles are locked up for several years.

If they succeed, they'll have the tools to do some damage in the playoffs and maybe win it all. If they don't, well, they could still get the North crown, so you'll still be satisfied, right?

Who says they can't win a Lombardi by upgrading a good defense into a great defense? And who says they can't run the ball even better if they upgrade the offensive lines interior blockers?

[Ickey44]

But they've already done just that. Just two years ago they drafted a buttload of fresh young pass catchers in an orgy of waste and luxury you'd have them repeat again, and you do so despite the knowledge that both starting WR roles are locked up for several years.

I agree with everything you said except for the above. Chad is only under contract for two more years. He's 33 now. They should attempt to find an eventual replacement for him.

[HoosierCat]

But that's the point. They attempt to rebuild the passing game every year.

Maybe once, but not lately. In the last four drafts the Bengals have had 14 picks in the first three rounds, and tapped a wideout just twice. That's the same number of times they took a DE, yet I'm not hearing any complaints about their over-emphasis on the pass rush.

a rugged defense that still can't rush the passer very well and currently relies on too many aging players.

Well, if it's aging players you're worried about, what about the offense? Chad has become more injury-prone, Carsons ticked over 30, and Benson is rapidly running up the odometer, thanks largely to our lack of a passing game. If for no other reason than to preserve the running game you love, we need to a credible passing threat. Right now, we don't have that.

And while we're on the subject, how many championships have the Colts won during their decades long reign as the NFL's finest passing team?

Exactly -- one-dimensional teams don't win championships.

And it took how many years for pass first New Orleans to find the right combination needed to win it's first championship? Five years?

Pass-first NO had a top 10 run game last year, too.

How many years ago was Jason Buck drafted? Fifteen? Twenty? Now ask yourself how many years ago Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell, Matt Sherry, and Mario Urrutia were drafted? [/quoe]

You can keep trying to make comparisons that support your greedy rant, but none will. And they won't because you're attempting to ignore many of the Bengals most recent moves as if they had never happened.

How many years ago were David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Caelb Miller, Kiewan Ratliff, and Madieu Williams drafted? Keep trying. Busts happen on both sides of the ball, ven during Marvin's tenure.

The quickest way to failure is to ignore the things that made you successful in the first place.

Funny, but I don't recall you being much of a fan of this argument back in the middle of the decade, when the thing that made the team successful was its offense, yet all you could do was complain about them ignoring the poor defense in favor of "tweaking" the perfect offense.

Just two years ago they drafted a buttload of fresh young pass catchers in an orgy of waste and luxury

See above. 2 out of 14 = "buttload" and "orgy of waste and luxury"?

Who says they can't win a Lombardi by upgrading a good defense into a great defense?

Well, this is where we differ. I think they already have a great defense. I think they haven't even managed to finish fitting in the pieces they took last year, like Rey and MJ. I think Odom will be back and Tank a lot better with a fixed foot. I continue to have no idea why Bengals fans seem so frightened that the D is going to collapse if we don't throw more more more more more at it every second.

[HairOnFire]

In the last four drafts the Bengals have had 14 picks in the first three rounds, and tapped a wideout just twice.

What purpuse is served by your repeated attempts to ignore moves that have added pass catchers? You pretend the team didn't sign Antonio Bryant simply because he isn't Brandon Marshall, you refuse to acknowledge Matt Jones at all, you refuse to consider Jerome Simpson even though he's still on the roster, and now you've narrowed the scope of a 4-year draft recap to such a degree you end up with just two drafted wideouts instead of the plethora actually selected. Frankly, that may not be dishonest, but it is disingenuous.

Well, if it's aging players you're worried about, what about the offense? Chad has become more injury-prone, Carsons ticked over 30, and Benson is rapidly running up the odometer, thanks largely to our lack of a passing game.

Congrats I guess, as you've just named three players the Bengals won't be looking to replace in the coming draft. This rare ability to focus intently on things that don't matter, when coupled with your unusual ability to completely ignore many of the players the Bengals actually draft, gives you unique insight.

Busts happen on both sides of the ball, even during Marvin's tenure.

True, but I'm not advocating the Bengals continue drafting WR's when both starting positions are already manned by capable veteran starters under contract for multiple years. You can't say as much.

I continue to have no idea why Bengals fans seem so frightened that the D is going to collapse if we don't throw more more more more more at it every second.

I don't recall the word collapse being mentioned by anyone, especially me, so I'll just chalk this one up as you tossing another disingenuous handful of mud into the water.

BTW, since you're on record wanting three new pass catchers in the coming draft, and since we've learned how you refuse to count players drafted after the 3rd round, can I assume you'd like to see the Bengals use each of their first three picks on new pass catchers? Or is that too greedy even for you?

[HoosierCat]

What purpuse is served by your repeated attempts to ignore moves that have added pass catchers?

I dunno, what purpose is served by your repeated attempts to ignore the team has added defenders? And that, in fact, it has focused far more attention on the D in recent years than the offense? And moreover, that those additions have built a great D, while the O is a joke?

Frankly, that may not be dishonest, but it is disingenuous.

Exactly.

I assume you'd like to see the Bengals use each of their first three picks on new pass catchers?

Depends on how the draft falls.

[HairOnFire]

I dunno, what purpose is served by your repeated attempts to ignore the team has added defenders?

Defenders? So the needs of one or two offensive positions equate to the eleven different defensive positions?

Sheesh, you do realize you're asking for the exact same thing now, in triplicate no less, as you asked for two years ago. And you do so despite the way the Bengals just locked up the #2 WR slot for the next couple of years?

Madness.

And moreover, that those additions have built a great D, while the O is a joke?

So the things I have advocated have worked splendidly, and the things you have advocated haven't produced spit, yet you still cling to the same draft strategy that produces nothing but waste?

[HairOnFire]

I assume you'd like to see the Bengals use each of their first three picks on new pass catchers?

Depends on how the draft falls.

And there it is.

The seeds of a 3 round draft haul that would net a TE who brings poor value, and two more wideouts who won't get any playing time.

Super Bowl?

[HoosierCat]

And moreover, that those additions have built a great D, while the O is a joke?

So the things I have advocated have worked splendidly, and the things you have advocated haven't produced spit, yet you still cling to the same draft strategy that produces nothing but waste?

Yes, the things you advocated have worked splendidly THE SECOND TIME AROUND. What happened when Pollack, Thurman, Landon Johnson, Keiwan, Madieu and Caleb "the Hobbit" Miller all sank like stones? Did the Bengals quit? Did they declare that since we screwed up before we can never get it right? No -- they kept pounding away at the D in the draft. if they didn't, you wouldn't have the D you have now.

Time to keep trying.

[HairOnFire]

Yes, the things you advocated have worked splendidly THE SECOND TIME AROUND.

Only the second?

I have to admit after reading your silly Jason Buck mention I figured I'd be wading through a WR rant based soley upon the failure of Leo Barker.

Poop.