My theory is a Safety at #21

[Walrus]

Ok then, now that we've weighed in on Mays at #21, I'm interested to know what you all think of some the other safety prospects (Chad Jones or Nate Allen in the second rd? Others?) -- in case we go a different direction in the first.

[Kazkal]

Ok then, now that we've weighed in on Mays at #21, I'm interested to know what you all think of some the other safety prospects (Chad Jones or Nate Allen in the second rd? Others?) -- in case we go a different direction in the first.

From what read bout Nate Allen he seems like Safe guy solid player not much upside..

Chad Jones I could see end up being a WLB

Morgan Burnett Would be a good Free Safety Prospect.

[blueridge]

If Dez Bryant doesn't fall to #21, I wouldn't mind Mays or Earl Thomas. If those two safeties are gone,I wouldn't hesitate to jump on Morgan Burnett in Rd 2. Burnett would be a terrific addition to the Bengals.

[blueridge]

Ok then, now that we've weighed in on Mays at #21, I'm interested to know what you all think of some the other safety prospects (Chad Jones or Nate Allen in the second rd? Others?) -- in case we go a different direction in the first.

From what read bout Nate Allen he seems like Safe guy solid player not much upside..

Chad Jones I could see end up being a WLB

Morgan Burnett Would be a good Free Safety Prospect.

With Chad Jones only putting up 9 reps on the bench press at the Combine, he would really put the "weak" in weakside LB.

[Kazkal]

Does he have long arms? thought he was suppossed be strong 230

[cincyhokie]

Does he have long arms? thought he was suppossed be strong 230

Bench press is a good indicator of uppper body strength for a lineman. But really for any position the lower body strength is key. The bench press can be an indicator of overall strength but not as much as the combine makes it seem. Gametape, upside indicators such as technique would seem to trump the bench. Plus, the man will have no choice other than to get his bench up once he enters an NFL weightroom.

[markymark69]

My first thought was TE or DE. But then I focused on the ages of Williams and Crocker and then Ndukwe is the only only guy that I feel like can really play back there --- the choice of a safety would make sense there, Mays or perhaps Earl Thomas from Texas.

I think you will see a safety drafted later on as well (Kurt Coleman -OSU in the middle rounds (maybe 5th).

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

For those who simply don't believe Mays can play safety in the NFL, you may be right, but try looking past the logo on the helmet. For example, if you think Mays has grown too big for the secondary make you comparisons to top prospects from the recent past who actually made the switch to LB, like Thomas Davis. Or Brian Urlacher.

Or maybe look a little farther back for other big safeties who hit like LBs (and who maybe even switched to LB later in their careers). Some had nice careers in the NFL - as safties. Seems like Bengals fans ought to like that sort of player, since we had just such a guy laying the wood on our last SB team. Gee, what was his name...

Every year the pundits outsmart themselves talking themselves out of a good college player. I don't even understand the speed thing since his 40 was either good (4.43) or great (4.24) depending on which reported time you believe. So what, the complaint is he's fast *and* big *and* hits hard? Yeah, pass on that. Normally I don't like taking safeties in the first because of the bust rate - and because it's a lower value position - but if we get him at 21 I think I can cope.

[NJ29]

Does he have long arms? thought he was suppossed be strong 230

Bench press is a good indicator of uppper body strength for a lineman. But really for any position the lower body strength is key. The bench press can be an indicator of overall strength but not as much as the combine makes it seem. Gametape, upside indicators such as technique would seem to trump the bench. Plus, the man will have no choice other than to get his bench up once he enters an NFL weightroom.

Benching 225 9 times is still strong as hell for a free safety. Think about what kind of max that means. And if you wanna draft guys based on combine numbers, ask Al Davis how that's going for him.

The closer we get to the draft, the more Earl Thomas becomes my first preference. It's not out of any distaste for Mays, Thomas just has that natural playmaking ability that I think is pretty rare. Or how about a trade waaaay up for Eric Berry?! I know that won't happen, but I definitely don't wanna see him in a Browns uniform.

Also, I also think the possibility of drafting a defensive end or a strongside backer with some pass rusher ability seems more likely. I could see Brandon Graham, Carlos Dunlap, Sean Witherspoon or Sergio Kindle being the pick.

[HairOnFire]

Normally I don't like taking safeties in the first because of the bust rate - and because it's a lower value position...

True enough, but if the Bengals don't defer their need picks until a later round, taking BPA in the 1st round regardless of position, isn't it likely that all of the prospects they're likely to draft play lower valued positions?

Tight End...Free Safety...Offensive Guard...Strong Safety...3rd WR...3rd DT...3rd DE?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

True enough, but if the Bengals don't defer their need picks until a later round, taking BPA in the 1st round regardless of position, isn't it likely that all of the prospects they're likely to draft play lower valued positions?

Tight End...Free Safety...Offensive Guard...Strong Safety...3rd WR...3rd DT...3rd DE?

That's pretty much what I'm thinking, really. 21's beyond the point where you can have confidence in what you get at value positions. So sure, you can look at the second tier positions.

Picking at 21 gives you the opportunity to take a little risk, whereas a risk at the top half these days kills you with the rookie contracts (which is why I wasn't sold on Andre last year). In a way, I'd much rather take Mays at 21 than Berry at, say, 6.

[alleycat]

Normally I don't like taking safeties in the first because of the bust rate - and because it's a lower value position...

True enough, but if the Bengals don't defer their need picks until a later round, taking BPA in the 1st round regardless of position, isn't it likely that all of the prospects they're likely to draft play lower valued positions?

Tight End...Free Safety...Offensive Guard...Strong Safety...3rd WR...3rd DT...3rd DE?

Thinking of things that way definitely makes one look at the situation differently.

A starter at TE, FS, SS, OG or a backup/rotational guy at other positions. The only one left out (Marvin's claims aside), is LB, which is one of my top 3 areas of concern...

[ArmyBengal]

The only one left out (Marvin's claims aside), is LB, which is one of my top 3 areas of concern...

Well, if Hobson is to be believed, LB isn't a concern. Not saying I agree (because I don't), but I'm just saying.

[TJJackson]

I still want a lineman. Either side of the ball. Control that line of scrimmage, baaaaaaaabeeeeeeeeeee

but

if we're going safety, give me the guy from Tennessee

[Kazkal]

I still want a lineman. Either side of the ball. Control that line of scrimmage, baaaaaaaabeeeeeeeeeee

but

if we're going safety, give me the guy from Tennessee

The guy who will be gone top 10?

[TJJackson]

I still want a lineman. Either side of the ball. Control that line of scrimmage, baaaaaaaabeeeeeeeeeee

but

if we're going safety, give me the guy from Tennessee

The guy who will be gone top 10?

Yeah, that guy. He'll do :-)

[cHaD711Johnson]

BPA

[Kazkal]

I still want a lineman. Either side of the ball. Control that line of scrimmage, baaaaaaaabeeeeeeeeeee

but

if we're going safety, give me the guy from Tennessee

The guy who will be gone top 10?

Yeah, that guy. He'll do :-)

Well Maybe we can find a gullible team like the Browns to trade with us....1st,3rd + COllins and Livings for Chiefs 1st round pick ?

[TJJackson]

I dont think that'll be necessary

Guys slip. Year after year, there are a handful of guys who slip. Warren Sapp for example

That, and safeties generally are not taken high. Generally. Yes, there are admitedly exceptions. Remember Rickey Dixon? :-)

In any case, I'd still prefer a big body to control the line of scrimmage (either side) over a safety, tho I would not mind a top notch safety.

[ArmyBengal]

Speaking of guys slipping, people weren't real impressed with Dez Bryant's pro day today.

Reported slow 40 time. I guess he'll make it past Oakland huh ??

PFT had it up that he ran a 4.52 40, which I don't think is poor, but there were reports he was running 4.3's, so who knows.

[kingwilly]

I dont think that'll be necessary

Guys slip. Year after year, there are a handful of guys who slip. Warren Sapp for example

That, and safeties generally are not taken high. Generally. Yes, there are admitedly exceptions. Remember Rickey Dixon? :-)

In any case, I'd still prefer a big body to control the line of scrimmage (either side) over a safety, tho I would not mind a top notch safety.

Can you point to a recent, highly taken Defensive lineman who has really made an impact, one who has to be schemed for?

The only ones I could come up with is Ngata, Mario Williams, Hali, Tommie Harris...and this is going back to 2004.

To me, the level of busts on the defensive side of the line taken in r1 is very high, very high.

I was a big proponent of Dorsey or Ellis in r1, and, though not busts, have not generally been key to improving the defensive units of the teams that drafted them.

Even with Williams un-signed, I see the current offensive line as having good depth and tons of upside with guys like Mathis, Livings, Luigs, Roland, Collins and obviously Andre and Whit. I do not see a huge need to take any offensive line help earlier than r3.

[BengalPimp]

I still want a lineman. Either side of the ball. Control that line of scrimmage, baaaaaaaabeeeeeeeeeee

but

if we're going safety, give me the guy from Tennessee

Or maybe that DT guy from Nebraska.....Be Realistic Man !

[BengalPimp]

I still want a lineman. Either side of the ball.

Why not sign your namesake ? DT T.J. Jackson? i mean, he's been out of the league for about a year now, since KC let him go...Since you love lineman.

[HairOnFire]

Can you point to a recent, highly taken Defensive lineman who has really made an impact, one who has to be schemed for?

Is last year recent enough? If so, how about my boy, Brian Orakpo and his dozen sacks, a Pro Bowl invite, and a DROY award?

Even with Williams un-signed, I see the current offensive line as having good depth and tons of upside with guys like Mathis, Livings, Luigs, Roland, Collins and obviously Andre and Whit. I do not see a huge need to take any offensive line help earlier than r3.

A huge need? No. But upgrading the interior offensive line with a premium pick does represent an opportunity to find an immediate starter AND talent upgrade with the 1st round pick, something that isn't always true of other positions being considered at #21.

For example, the Bengals were 6th best at producing big running plays to the left, 15th rated when running to the right, and 27th ranked when rushing up the middle. That smacks of a team needing a talent upgrade at multiple interior OL positions. But which ones? Obviously ORG is mentioned plenty because of Bobbie Williams advancing age and uncertain contract status. So start there. But many Bengal fans remain unimpressed by the play at OLG where a Mathis/Livings platoon lacks a true starter. So there's another.

But let me remind readers of how just last year this board was filled with talk about the Bengals pressing need for a new starting OC. The argument was they needed a new pivot so badly they would have to select one early. 3rd round at the latest, right? But they didn't, and one year later most of us seem satisfied with Kyle Cook, mostly because of who he isn't rather than who he is. And there's the rub because I'm going to further remind everyone that not only were the Bengals one of the NFL's poorest rankings running up the gut...Kyle Cook was ranked as one of the bottom 5 pass blocking centers.

Just saying.

Maurkice Pouncey

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

most of us seem satisfied with Kyle Cook, mostly because of who he isn't rather than who he is.

Yeah, I'd say you got it there. Sort of how you don't want to be the guy who plays CF for the Yankees after Mickey Mantle...except the exact opposite. You play OC after Girlchick, you look like a pro-bowler.

Sounds like you're willing to argue either side - either beef up the OL or take a starter at a second tier position like S. Good argument for BPA. Anyway, I've decided I'll never knock a high-round OL pick if the guy's legit.