Offensive Line:Overall Thoughts

[Kazkal]

Just wondering peoples Opinions are on how they played this year and What changes should be made next.

LT:Whitworth Still left tackle of the future? Outside of the Yellow Hankys I was happy with his play overall.

LG:Livings & Mathis I'm more of a Fan of Livings out of the Two Thought he was more serviceable and helped out the running game more.

Center:Would like to see him get extended long term he held his own vs some very good DT's this year.

RG:Bobbie Williams wasn't really impressed with his play but seemed to get plenty love from the Media..Williams,Livings or Rookie next year?

RT:Andre Smith:Well Hopefully he is starting next year.

Should Roland or Collins be traded if they have any value?

PS,I'm so glad Guycheck is gone.

[ArmyBengal]

LT:Whitworth Still left tackle of the future? Outside of the Yellow Hankys I was happy with his play overall.

LG:Livings & Mathis I'm more of a Fan of Livings out of the Two Thought he was more serviceable and helped out the running game more.

Center:Would like to see him get extended long term he held his own vs some very good DT's this year.

RG:Bobbie Williams wasn't really impressed with his play but seemed to get plenty love from the Media..Williams,Livings or Rookie next year?

RT:Andre Smith:Well Hopefully he is starting next year.

Should Roland or Collins be traded if they have any value?

Ok, good topic and I'm interested in hearing other opinions on this as well.

I like Whitworth as a leader for this team and think he definitely stays at LT for the foreseeable future. Needs to fix pre-snap penalties.

Cook held up against the AFCN nosetackles like I never thought was going to happen. Extend him now, he's a beast.

Andre Smith should be improved with offseason training and benefitting from a full camp and I have no concerns with him at RT.

Williams is still serviceable and is also a leader for the offense and I hope he stays, but a replacement is definitely needed.

Roland and Collins are good for depth and I really wouldn't be in support of trading them.

Now, Livings and Mathis.... If I was choosing one, yeah, I like Livings more, but I'm not sold with either as a starter and certainly not both starting if something happens to Williams. I really think they should take a Guard early, but would still manage to be happy within the first 4 rounds. What interests me is others opinions of Livings and Mathis that would give me reason to not be so concerned about them for the upcoming season.

[Kazkal]

Before Mathis went down Seemed like left side of our Line was out playing the right by alot,I remember seeing him get blown up in pass coverage a few times but it wasn't constant problem like the 4-5 game streak that Roland looked like a swing door...Right Guard is the only position I really see up in the air...Do they move Livings to Right Guard? Resign Bobbie and continue to Develop Shirly or later draft pick? Or Draft a Guard High and say bye to bobbie now.

PS,I Just hope we get to the point where Oline is good enough to start & Finish a game,Not having to Sub Players around Using the Jumbo formation quite abit less then we did...I don't mind using it I'd just prefer to see our Oline win the line of Scrimmage with 5 guys...

[BengalPimp]

I think we're good at Tackle. Whitworth is smart enough to get over the penalties. He was very good at shutting down opponents' pass-rushers,pretty much alone, as the TE usually lined up on the other side.

I believe Andre Smith will be a mauler, and liked what I saw in him when he finally did get on the field.

I liked what I saw from Cook at Center, although you guys' extend him now, sign him long term stuff may be a bit pre-mature. He did a fine job, but honestly guys, it was one year, and part of what made him look good, was Ghiaciuc looking so bad before him. I like Cook, but you just don't hand out expensive O-Line contracts (and yes, all O-Line contracts are big) for 1 year.

I think we can get another couple of years out of Bobbie, he's a good veteran leader to have on that line for the young guys, even though his play may be beginning to slow down.

The other Guard position needs to be addressed through the draft. just because Livings and Mathis aren't terrible doesn't mean they should start. Sure I'll agree that Nate Livings is the better of the two, but that's not saying much. I like Mike Iupati out of Idaho, a 6'5" 330lb guard, who's both a good pass-protector, and run-blocker.

The problem I see with this unit, is that aside from Bobbie, and Whit, they are young and as with most young O-Lineman, its easier to run-block than it is to pass-protect.

I would like to see a new LG, but keep the guys we have (Livings/Mathis) as back-ups. If not, at least playing together last year will only help their chemistry.

[cincyhokie]

Add depth a guard and tackle, if possible. Get a TE that can open the middle of the field. Get a WR that can stretch the field. Call plays that help keep the defense guessing.

The O-line is in good shape. Give Palmer more weapons.

[derekshank]

Excited about having A. Smith as the starting RT for the full year next season. They should keep Roland around as well since he is a skilled run blocker, useful in that unbalanced line they love so much.

I'm happy with Whit at LT. Though he's not elite, and has some problems with penalties, he has proven himself to be a very capable LT in this league. I'd say he's a top 10 LT... and he'd probably be even better than that if he could eliminate the penalties.

Cook is a guy we've been praising all season. Why? It's an example of how easy it is to please Bengal fans post-Ghiacuic. He wasn't that great. The Bengals couldn't run up the middle all season. Nearly all of their running stats came running to the left, or running right with the unbalanced line. Running between the tackles was rarely effective. Look at how he was rated. 21st in the NFL is hardly something to brag about. I have nothing against Cook, and he deserves props as a first year starter... but he needs to improve next season, or it might be time to see what Luigs can do. (At least the Steeler Center is ranked dead last! )

G... I like Mathis a lot, and Livings is a very capable back-up. Bobbie seems a little old to resign, and honestly, I was disappointed with him this season. It seemed like he was the weak link on the line several times this season. I'd like to see a 2nd round pick invested in his replacement.

Whit-Mathis-Cook-Day 1 Rookie-Smith would be a very good O-Line in my opinion... if Cook improves.

[derekshank]

The O-line is in good shape. Give Palmer more weapons.

Maybe. Perhaps with a healthy roster of TEs and A. Smith with a year under his belt they will be in good shape. But it's my opinion that they regularly aren't giving Palmer enough time. He has actually been good as stepping up in the pocket this year to avoid the rush and dump it off to check downs... but far too often his throws are rushed resulting in bad technique and a lot of incomplete passes.

Some of it is on the WRs taking too long to get open, but again, with a healthy roster of TEs, maybe that is less of a problem as well. I agree that Palmer could certainly use some more weapons... but I also think that this line is primarily a run blocking line, and it won't matter how many weapons Palmer has if they don't find a way to give him more time.

[cincyhokie]

The O-line is in good shape. Give Palmer more weapons.

Maybe. Perhaps with a healthy roster of TEs and A. Smith with a year under his belt they will be in good shape. But it's my opinion that they regularly aren't giving Palmer enough time. He has actually been good as stepping up in the pocket this year to avoid the rush and dump it off to check downs... but far too often his throws are rushed resulting in bad technique and a lot of incomplete passes.

Some of it is on the WRs taking too long to get open, but again, with a healthy roster of TEs, maybe that is less of a problem as well. I agree that Palmer could certainly use some more weapons... but I also think that this line is primarily a run blocking line, and it won't matter how many weapons Palmer has if they don't find a way to give him more time.

Add O-line depth in the draft. FA should be focused on playmakers, such as WR or TE, or DT, DE, S.

[HoosierCat]

Give me a guard and a year of Moobs in the program and I'm happy.

[derekshank]

The O-line is in good shape. Give Palmer more weapons.

Maybe. Perhaps with a healthy roster of TEs and A. Smith with a year under his belt they will be in good shape. But it's my opinion that they regularly aren't giving Palmer enough time. He has actually been good as stepping up in the pocket this year to avoid the rush and dump it off to check downs... but far too often his throws are rushed resulting in bad technique and a lot of incomplete passes.

Some of it is on the WRs taking too long to get open, but again, with a healthy roster of TEs, maybe that is less of a problem as well. I agree that Palmer could certainly use some more weapons... but I also think that this line is primarily a run blocking line, and it won't matter how many weapons Palmer has if they don't find a way to give him more time.

Add O-line depth in the draft. FA should be focused on playmakers, such as WR or TE, or DT, DE, S.

So I assume you want them to re-sign Bobbie Williams? He is a free agent this year... and without him, they'll certainly need to add something.

Or are you happy with Mathis as the LG and moving Livings to RG?

I think they should add a RG in the 2nd round... you rather just draft depth. Just curious what you think they should do... because I'm not as confident starting Mathis, Cook, and Livings. I'd like a shiny new RG.

[Kazkal]

Add depth a guard and tackle, if possible. Get a TE that can open the middle of the field. Get a WR that can stretch the field. Call plays that help keep the defense guessing.

We have Whitworth,Andre,Collins & Rolands do we really need another tackle outside camp body?

[cincyhokie]

Add depth a guard and tackle, if possible. Get a TE that can open the middle of the field. Get a WR that can stretch the field. Call plays that help keep the defense guessing.

We have Whitworth,Andre,Collins & Rolands do we really need another tackle outside camp body?

Adding depth on the both lines should be a constant consideration in every offseason. It's the most important place to have it.

[derekshank]

Add depth a guard and tackle, if possible. Get a TE that can open the middle of the field. Get a WR that can stretch the field. Call plays that help keep the defense guessing.

We have Whitworth,Andre,Collins & Rolands do we really need another tackle outside camp body?

Adding depth on the both lines should be a constant consideration in every offseason. It's the most important place to have it.

Sure. I'm all for depth... but assuming Whit, A. Smith, Collins, and Roland are on the roster... wouldn't it seem prudent to consider some of the other positions on the O-Line? Like RG for instance...

[cincyhokie]

Add depth a guard and tackle, if possible. Get a TE that can open the middle of the field. Get a WR that can stretch the field. Call plays that help keep the defense guessing.

We have Whitworth,Andre,Collins & Rolands do we really need another tackle outside camp body?

Adding depth on the both lines should be a constant consideration in every offseason. It's the most important place to have it.

Sure. I'm all for depth... but assuming Whit, A. Smith, Collins, and Roland are on the roster... wouldn't it seem prudent to consider some of the other positions on the O-Line? Like RG for instance...

True. But what do you do when the 3rd or 4th round "stud" who's a tackle falls to you?

Fortunately the Bengals are in a position regarding the O-line and the draft that they weren't last year. They don't necessarily have to draft for need or position.

[Kazkal]

True. But what do you do when the 3rd or 4th round "stud" who's a tackle falls to you?

Pass him for another stud? Or Trade Rolands or COllins because 5 tackles = 2 many when you gotta think about Guards & start developing some for the future.

[cincyhokie]

True. But what do you do when the 3rd or 4th round "stud" who's a tackle falls to you?

Pass him for another stud? Or Trade Rolands or COllins because 5 tackles = 2 many when you gotta think about Guards & start developing some for the future.

I hear you. But alot of good players get cut from good teams. If we draft a good tackle or guard and they play better than Collins or Roland.....just sayin.

[Kazkal]

Ya I guess it just dpends how draft Falls like if you have like a 2nd round grade Tackle sitting in your lap at the End of the 3rd and Huge Gap between his talent and other positions...Then I guess it wouldn't hurt more so if it's more of a true LT vs Jumbo sized linemen.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Didnt they say they were going to use Luigs as a C/G as depth, if so O-line depth is fine, but if a stud G falls to them, take him. Starting caliber guards are a little lacking on he Bengals.

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, I will concede that Cook wasn't all-world and after Girlcheck, anything looks good, but when looking at how he shut down the large nosetackles of the AFCN in their games this season, there's simply no way to look at that in a negative light post Girlcheck or not. I missed the fact that he's a "restricted" free agent, so he doesn't require locking up long term, so sure just ensure he doesn't leave this upcoming season and go from there.

What I've been looking for is reason to think Mathis or Livings should be starters on this team. If we weren't able to run up the middle this past season, both guard spot also share in that responsibility and regardless of being happy they were able to produce to a degree doesn't mean they shouldn't be upgraded when given the chance to do so.

For all the concern about Carson and giving him weapons, (which is certainly needed) giving Carson time would seem to be equally important. The pass protection of this seasons o-line was not the best and also is part of the problem. Carson just isn't as effective when not given more time and I'm not going to make excuses for that anymore.

[HR24]

First time poster here guys, but I thought I might way in here.

Whitworth-I echo alot of the sentiments here that he needs to clean up the penalties, but he held up fairly well. I didn't see too much chipping going on with his side, so they pretty much left him on his own all season.

Livings/Mathis-I feel that Mathis might be a little bit more of a better prospect here than Livings. I say that mainly b/c Mathis reminds me a little of Steiny. Granted, he isn't as athletic as Steinbach was, but he gives us a good pulling LG option. Livings and his big frame might be better served over at RG.

Cook-He did well anchoring against 3-4 NT's, but he seemed to have trouble against 4-3 DT's. Almost the flipside of Gutchuck. Maybe he isn't the best in space when getting out on LB's, but he wasn't terrible at it either. It was his first year starting, and overall, exceeded my expectations.

Williams-I don't understand all of the love going on right with Bobbie. He has been very solid, but I feel this was his worst year. I'd like to see how many of the sacks off of the right side were actually his guy as opposed to the RT's man. Give Livings a shot here, or look in the draft and sign Bobbie to a one/two year deal and let him finish out his career here.

Smith-He looked fine in limited action. Definitely a run-blocker first, but did better at pass protection than I was expecting.

Roland/Collins-Good depth and swing here. Starters? Only in a pinch or depth for injury issues.

[derekshank]

Williams-I don't understand all of the love going on right with Bobbie. He has been very solid, but I feel this was his worst year. I'd like to see how many of the sacks off of the right side were actually his guy as opposed to the RT's man. Give Livings a shot here, or look in the draft and sign Bobbie to a one/two year deal and let him finish out his career here.

Bobbie was credited with giving up 4 QB sacks, 1 QB hits, and 12 QB pressures.

Compare that to Whitworth, who gave up 5 QB sacks, 6 QB hits, and 14 QB pressures at the LT spot, and you'll see how poor of a season Bobbie had at pass blocking.

He didn't get a ton of help from Cook though, who gave up 1 QB sack, 4 QB hits, and 14 QB pressures.

For the LG spot... Mathis gave up 0 QB sacks, 6 QB hits, and 4 QB pressures, Livings gave up 0 QB sacks, 1 QB hit, and 7 QB pressures.

And speaking of Bobbie being the veteran for this O-Line... he had 9 penalties. Only Whitworth had more. Mathis only had 2, and Cook had 4. Seems like only the veterans had real penalty problems this season. I think it's time for Bobbie to go.

[HairOnFire]

First time poster here guys....

Welcome to the zone.

Whitworth-I echo alot of the sentiments here that he needs to clean up the penalties, but he held up fairly well. I didn't see too much chipping going on with his side, so they pretty much left him on his own all season.

I'm torn. I thought Whitworth answered every question about whether he can man the left, but the shift left a hole at OLG that's still screaming for help. So despite my belief the Bengals won't kick Whitworth back inside....I keep thinking about it. And I'll probably keep thinking about it until Anthony Collins is no longer a Bengal.

Cook-He did well anchoring against 3-4 NT's, but he seemed to have trouble against 4-3 DT's. Almost the flipside of Gutchuck. Maybe he isn't the best in space when getting out on LB's, but he wasn't terrible at it either.

He's a fireplug. He did a far better job of anchoring than Ghiacuic but he can't reach the second level consistently enough.

Williams-I don't understand all of the love going on right with Bobbie. He has been very solid, but I feel this was his worst year.

I've wanted an upgrade at ORG for at least two years, and after watching Williams struggle again I guess I should make it three in a row. However, prior to this season I never realized how much of a team leader Williams has become, and that fact alone makes me want to put away my knives.

Smith-He looked fine in limited action. Definitely a run-blocker first, but did better at pass protection than I was expecting.

I swear the guy got a little bit bigger each time I watched, but yeah....great balance.

Roland/Collins-Good depth and swing here. Starters? Only in a pinch or depth for injury issues.

IMHO Roland is simply too tall to be effective. Or if you prefer, too stiff. But regardless, it's a deadly combo.

[Kazkal]

Alexander isn’t saying for sure that the 340-pound Smith is the 2010 starter and he indicated that the coaches are intrigued enough with the rotations they used at some spots. But he also liked what he saw at the end of the season when Smith was getting more and more of the snaps in his shuffle with Dennis Roland. All signs are pointing to Smith and left tackle Andrew Whitworth being the bookends for at least the next couple of years.

:| hopefully its Andre & Whit starting & staying at their respective spots.

[kingwilly]

Williams-I don't understand all of the love going on right with Bobbie. He has been very solid, but I feel this was his worst year. I'd like to see how many of the sacks off of the right side were actually his guy as opposed to the RT's man. Give Livings a shot here, or look in the draft and sign Bobbie to a one/two year deal and let him finish out his career here.

Bobbie was credited with giving up 4 QB sacks, 1 QB hits, and 12 QB pressures.

Compare that to Whitworth, who gave up 5 QB sacks, 6 QB hits, and 14 QB pressures at the LT spot, and you'll see how poor of a season Bobbie had at pass blocking.

He didn't get a ton of help from Cook though, who gave up 1 QB sack, 4 QB hits, and 14 QB pressures.

For the LG spot... Mathis gave up 0 QB sacks, 6 QB hits, and 4 QB pressures, Livings gave up 0 QB sacks, 1 QB hit, and 7 QB pressures.

And speaking of Bobbie being the veteran for this O-Line... he had 9 penalties. Only Whitworth had more. Mathis only had 2, and Cook had 4. Seems like only the veterans had real penalty problems this season. I think it's time for Bobbie to go.

Bobbie can go.

Livings or Mathis can move over. I have no worries in doing this.

Having Roland and Collins backing up Whit and Andre makes me VERY happy.

Having Whit and Luigs backing up Livings and Mathis makes me VERY happy.

Having Luigs backing up Cook makes me very happy.

The line is in a good spot. Taking a G in r4-6 would be smart.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Williams-I don't understand all of the love going on right with Bobbie. He has been very solid, but I feel this was his worst year. I'd like to see how many of the sacks off of the right side were actually his guy as opposed to the RT's man. Give Livings a shot here, or look in the draft and sign Bobbie to a one/two year deal and let him finish out his career here.

Bobbie was credited with giving up 4 QB sacks, 1 QB hits, and 12 QB pressures.

Compare that to Whitworth, who gave up 5 QB sacks, 6 QB hits, and 14 QB pressures at the LT spot, and you'll see how poor of a season Bobbie had at pass blocking.

He didn't get a ton of help from Cook though, who gave up 1 QB sack, 4 QB hits, and 14 QB pressures.

For the LG spot... Mathis gave up 0 QB sacks, 6 QB hits, and 4 QB pressures, Livings gave up 0 QB sacks, 1 QB hit, and 7 QB pressures.

And speaking of Bobbie being the veteran for this O-Line... he had 9 penalties. Only Whitworth had more. Mathis only had 2, and Cook had 4. Seems like only the veterans had real penalty problems this season. I think it's time for Bobbie to go.

Whit, according to the line coach only, got racked for 1 QB sack this season.