WORST THINGS TO HAPPEN TO BENGALS THIS OFF SEASON

[BENGALTHEM]

Gardner and Weathersby out.

If healthy, both could have significantly helped out the worst parts of our football team.

D-LINE and SECONDARY.

SUX MANE!

[Barbarian]

I'll say the SAPP Controversy. It gave fans hope when the Bungles shouldn't have leaked anything about talking to Warren, then signed him.

Bungles Management looked really stupid when another Big Time Free Agent used the Bungles as leverage (once again). The Gardener thing was icing on the cake.

Weathersby's accident was a very bad thing. I hope he's doing okay.

[KitnasBengals]

How is he doing?

[HoosierCat]

1. Not replacing Greg Seamon as advance scout. Seamon took a full-time scouting position with the team after scout John Garrett left. The Bengals raved about Seamon for his work as advance scout, the first time the team has had such a person (he goes out and scouts next week's opponent) and promised to address the position after Seamon vacated it in Feb., but unless I missed something, they never did.

2. The return of Bruce Coslet as a part-time personnel guy.

3. Trying to keep Opie on the cheap & then having to match the Jags big-bucks offer. Matching was a good move, mind you, but they could have had him signed for much less before FA; instead they tried to reward his amazing accuracy with the league minimum. Any fool (except the ones in the Bengals front office, apparently) could have seen that coming considering a widespread need for decent kickers around the league.

4. Not pushing Kitna to redo his contract immediately after the 2003 season ended. Having that money at the start of FA could have made a big difference.

5. Not dealing CD earlier. This one is debatable, since they got a higher pick than anyone thought they would, but given how they drafted they may have been able to get the same guys with another 3rd or 4th instead of the second. And again, the cap space would have been very useful early in FA. Between that and redoing Kitna we could have easily trumped the Raiders' offer to Sapp, for example.

[kevnz]

1. Not replacing Greg Seamon as advance scout. Seamon took a full-time scouting position with the team after scout John Garrett left. The Bengals raved about Seamon for his work as advance scout, the first time the team has had such a person (he goes out and scouts next week's opponent) and promised to address the position after Seamon vacated it in Feb., but unless I missed something, they never did.

3. Trying to keep Opie on the cheap & then having to match the Jags big-bucks offer. Matching was a good move, mind you, but they could have had him signed for much less before FA; instead they tried to reward his amazing accuracy with the league minimum. Any fool (except the ones in the Bengals front office, apparently) could have seen that coming considering a widespread need for decent kickers around the league.

5. Not dealing CD earlier. This one is debatable, since they got a higher pick than anyone thought they would, but given how they drafted they may have been able to get the same guys with another 3rd or 4th instead of the second. And again, the cap space would have been very useful early in FA. Between that and redoing Kitna we could have easily trumped the Raiders' offer to Sapp, for example.

1. I'm pretty sure that they kept him on.

3. I still think that the kicker deal was a good one and worth every penny

5. Everybody knows that Dillon was on the market day 1....Sticking to the highest offer was the best option for the team long term. The Raiders did us a favor by signing Sapp, he's been going downhill for several years and he would have taken away time for the younger guys that need to develop. Free agency isn't the miracle cure-all that everybody thinks that it is. The guys that are drafted are the priority as they contribute long term, not for one season.

[ackley1]

Not landing a deal w/ Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, or any of the other big name cb's. I think that was our biggest need this offseason and we failed to sign anybody big.

[kevnz]

Not landing a deal w/ Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, or any of the other big name cb's. I think that was our biggest need this offseason and we failed to sign anybody big.

The old men??? Gimme a break. We traded for O'Neal and drafted 2 corners...Better young and fast instead of paying for someones past.

The worst thing to happen this offseason was Dennis Weathersby getting injured.

[Sox]

I'll say the SAPP Controversy.  It gave fans hope when the Bungles shouldn't have leaked anything about talking to Warren, then signed him.

Bungles Management looked really stupid when another Big Time Free Agent used the Bungles as leverage (once again).  The Gardener thing was icing on the cake.

Weathersby's accident was a very bad thing.  I hope he's doing okay.

Drew Rosenhaus,Sapp's agent leaked it to use the Bengals as leverage.

From the Cincinnati Enquirer-Drew Rosenhaus reported the Bengals were the frontrunner.He was the one talking to the papers,not the Bengals.

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2004/03/20/ben1a.html

[chrishcovga]

THe worst thing to happen was obviously the Weathersby accident. Hopefully next spring he'll be participating in the practices and finally giving it a go at the professional level.

- But the biggest offseason failure, easily has to be the lack of depth at the DT position. We all knew that Gibson, and Steele were as good as gone after the Cleveland game, but having another year of Tony Williams could keep Cincy in the latter ranks of the Defensive squads again. - Hopefully Askew turns out all right, but we passed on some serious talent on the Defensive line in rounds 2 and 3, This is either a " In Marvin We Trust " thing or someone forgot to lock the door to the War Room and Mikey walked in it again !

[BengalszoneBilly]

Drew Rosenhaus,Sapp's agent leaked it to use the Bengals as leverage.

From the Cincinnati Enquirer-Drew Rosenhaus reported the Bengals were the frontrunner.He was the one talking to the papers,not the Bengals.

That's one smart agent if you ask me. He realizes he only has one more big payday at most with Warren, and he made the most out of it by robbing Al Davis instead of Cincinnati.

The only person that got played here was Al Davis in Oakland.

[HoosierCat]

1. I'm pretty sure that they kept him on.

Yes, they did; I said that. Seamon took Garrett's job in the (regular) scouting department. But what they didn't do was fill Seamon's job, the advance scout (despite promising to, and talking about how valuable the position was).

3. I still think that the kicker deal was a good one and worth every penny

So do I; I said that, too. But according to his relations who post on this and other boards, they could have had him for many fewer pennies. Instead they went cheap and got burned by the Jags.

5. Everybody knows that Dillon was on the market day 1....Sticking to the highest offer was the best option for the team long term. The Raiders did us a favor by signing Sapp, he's been going downhill for several years and he would have taken away time for the younger guys that need to develop. Free agency isn't the miracle cure-all that everybody thinks that it is. The guys that are drafted are the priority as they contribute long term, not for one season.

But that's just the point: it seems pretty likely that Williams would have been available at the top of the third, or Geathers at the top of the fourth, so what difference would it have made whether we waited and got the second, or dealt him much earlier for a 3rd or a 4th? As for Sapp taking time away from the young guys, how so? Conventional wisdom has it that had Sapp or Gardener been signed, Tony Williams was toast, so you have the same ratio of old/young d-linemen. And even a fading Sapp would have been an upgrade over Tony.

[redsfan2]

Gardner and Weathersby out.

If healthy, both could have significantly helped out the worst parts of our football team.

D-LINE and SECONDARY.

SUX MANE!

I see your point, but I don't know that I'd put what happened to Weathersby in the context of bad things that happened to the Bengals. The guy has almost lost his life twice in consecutive years, and that kinda transcends football.

Gardners condition since it's career ending is sad, but at least he got to have a career. It remains to be seen whether or not Weathersby ever will.

As to the worst thing that happened to the team, I gotta go with Chris and Barbarian. The inability to seal a deal with a quality DT seemed more to do with the team being totally inept than in the availability of players to be had. Still does for that matter. ( why the hell are they still even talking to Gildon ? )

A nasty pattern developed in dealing with free agents. We didn't even talk with the " name " players that were out there. We were tentative in negotiating with the ones we did bring in. We didn't do enough homework in the case of Gardner. We failed to sign a single player with who we'd had extended talks.

Now ... I don't know if Mike B. was involved or not, but you have to admit that a lot of this has a familiar ring to it. Instead of locking the door to the War Room, they should lock the one to Mikes office ..... with him in it. Let him answer the phone and open mail, but for Gods sake don't let him be in charge of anything.

Oh and shoot Coslet.

In the crotch.

[jditty47]

the kicker thing was a huge mistake in my book, one of the top 2 mistakes of the offseason, and the 2nd would be the D-Line not being addressed.

[Kirkendall]

the kicker thing was a huge mistake in my book, one of the top 2 mistakes of the offseason, and the 2nd would be the D-Line not being addressed.

I think they tried to address it, but there was no vision outside the scope they created for themselves. There was no alternate plan...

[BENGALTHEM]

I see your point, but I don't know that I'd put what happened to Weathersby in the context of bad things that happened to the Bengals. The guy has almost lost his life twice in consecutive years, and that kinda transcends football.

No doubt, sorry if I worded that wrong. Weathersby's recovery is way more important than any success the Bengals have on the field. Football is just a game.

But you get what I'm trying to say.

For those who think signing Grahm to that contract is a bad idea. I disagree. People are always knockin the kicker, but the kicker is just as significant if not more, as any other position on the team. A kicker's performance can determine whether a team win's a game or loses a game. A kicker's performance can determine whether you make or miss the playoffs. A kicker can determine whether you win the suberbowl or lose. A kicker is important fellas. History has proved that, so there's no need to give examples. I think if you got a good kicker on your hands, pay him the money. There's is nothing worse then having a solid team and no damn kicker. The damn chiefs are still relying on Morten Anderson, and I know chief fans are going to regret that! I think he even missed a chip shot vs. the colts last year in the playoffs.

We may have overpaid him, but what if he becomes one of the top kikers in the league...........its possible. Id rather pay Grahm a mil with the confidence that he's money from the 45 down, then pay friken Rackers 200 grand, and watch myself get on my knees and pray, in hopes that he can make a 35 yarder..........forget that.

Plus it's good business in relation to the players and the atmosphere in the locker room. We don't need disgruntled players on the team ie. Maddox, Ward, Plaxico, law, etc. I dont think anybody is too upset with their contract situation, and that's positive. We shouldnt here any complaining from CJ or CP for a long time. The players know the Bengals have been fair with everbody. That's why Kitna is cool with backing up Palmer. We gave Kitna a bonus in 2003, and technically we didn't have to.

[jditty47]

bro, the kicker thing was horrible. We coulda signed him for a ton less than what we did but we tried to be cheap by putting a tender on him so that we could match anyones offer not realizing that alot of teams need a new kicker. The second problem i have with it is why match it when jax offered that *** damn much??? HE HAS HAD ONE GOOD YEAR. How in the hell do u get paid in the top 5 of kickers when u have one good year, it wasnt even a SPECTACULAR year. He gets paid more than alot of kickers now that are better than him in my book. Just how we handled it was poor.

Weathersby to me isnt an important impact because he wasnt even a starter or anyone that saw playing time and most likely woulda only been a 3rd down DB which we got in the draft regardless.

[redsfan2]

No doubt, sorry if I worded that wrong. Weathersby's recovery is way more important than any success the Bengals have on the field. Football is just a game.

But you get what I'm trying to say.

For those who think signing Grahm to that contract is a bad idea. I disagree. People are always knockin the kicker, but the kicker is just as significant if not more, as any other position on the team. A kicker's performance can determine whether a team win's a game or loses a game. A kicker's performance can determine whether you make or miss the playoffs. A kicker can determine whether you win the suberbowl or lose. A kicker is important fellas. History has proved that, so there's no need to give examples. I think if you got a good kicker on your hands, pay him the money. There's is nothing worse then having a solid team and no damn kicker. The damn chiefs are still relying on Morten Anderson, and I know chief fans are going to regret that! I think he even missed a chip shot vs. the colts last year in the playoffs.

We may have overpaid him, but what if he becomes one of the top kikers in the league...........its possible. Id rather pay Grahm a mil with the confidence that he's money from the 45 down, then pay friken Rackers 200 grand, and watch myself get on my knees and pray, in hopes that he can make a 35 yarder..........forget that.

Plus it's good business in relation to the players and the atmosphere in the locker room. We don't need disgruntled players on the team ie. Maddox, Ward, Plaxico, law, etc. I dont think anybody is too upset with their contract situation, and that's positive. We shouldnt here any complaining from CJ or CP for a long time. The players know the Bengals have been fair with everbody. That's why Kitna is cool with backing up Palmer. We gave Kitna a bonus in 2003, and technically we didn't have to.

Nah ! I knew what you meant, and I was just being a little too nit picky. Jditty makes a great point that its hard to assess the loss to the team tho because he really hadn't had a chance to do much.

Both Kirk and Jditty are on the mark re the kicker as well. Nobody said it was a bad idea to sign him. The screw up was that they didn't sign him for substantially less money when they had the chance to. Just one more example of the ineptness that I referred to earlier.

The thing that really bothers me is that this year seems to be such a departure from last year. Last year, fa's were selected ... brought in and signed. All draft picks were signed in time for camp.

This year there seems to be general confusion on who to talk to and how to sign them. I also don't like the fact that the responsibility for signing each draft pick is being assigned to different people in the front office. Just too many chances for communications to break down. The best way to get nothing done is to form a committee.

[ackley1]

Not landing a deal w/ Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, or any of the other big name cb's. I think that was our biggest need this offseason and we failed to sign anybody big.

The old men??? Gimme a break. We traded for O'Neal and drafted 2 corners...Better young and fast instead of paying for someones past.

The worst thing to happen this offseason was Dennis Weathersby getting injured.

Dennis Weathersby hasn't proven a thing yet in this league so i can we know that we really missed much. On the other hand Bobby Taylor and Vincent have been great players.

[ackley1]

I don't think that Weathersby would have made that much of an impact this season anyways. The reason he didn't get much playing time last year is because he wasn't progression well. We could use all the help we can get with/ the cb's though. Oneal was a great pickup and Ratliff was a good pick. However having an experienced All Pro like Taylor of Vincent would have helped us out a lot.

[BENGALTHEM]

True, Weathersby hasn't proven a thing, but he has alot of potential. He was projected to go in the 2nd round, but dropped to the 4th because he got shot. As far as his progression last year...............cmon, dude got shot.......... lost damn near half his blood, so of course he's progression is going to be slower. So a fully recovered 6'1 Weathersby would have been nice, considering the only proven, consistent cb we have is James.

As far as the kicker being paid that much loot, maybe the coaching staff sees something in him. If Graham is our kicker for years down the road, and he's consistent..............then matching the Jags offer is a good move.

I agree we screwed up by offering him the min. But Im glad we matched it at the same time.

[ackley1]

True, Weathersby hasn't proven a thing, but he has alot of potential. He was projected to go in the 2nd round, but dropped to the 4th because he got shot. As far as his progression last year...............cmon, dude got shot.......... lost damn near half his blood, so of course he's progression is going to be slower. So a fully recovered 6'1 Weathersby would have been nice, considering the only proven, consistent cb we have is James.

As far as the kicker being paid that much loot, maybe the coaching staff sees something in him. If Graham is our kicker for years down the road, and he's consistent..............then matching the Jags offer is a good move.

I agree we screwed up by offering him the min. But Im glad we matched it at the same time.

I agree with you man. I'm just saying Vincent or Taylor would have probably made much more of an impact this year. When was the last time we picked up a good CB though free agency? Ashley Ambrose? We've been trying to bring up CB's that we drafted for years and most of them have been trash. Could anyone tell the last good CB we drafted was?

[kevnz]

I agree with you man. I'm just saying Vincent or Taylor would have probably made much more of an impact this year. When was the last time we picked up a good CB though free agency? Ashley Ambrose? We've been trying to bring up CB's that we drafted for years and most of them have been trash. Could anyone tell the last good CB we drafted was?

Taylor and Vincent won't help the Seahawks or the Bills...Old and both have lost a step.

We traded for Ambrose.

When has Marvin Lewis had a chance to develop a Corner, give the man a chance.

When was the last time the team was able to develop any player at any position under the 3 previous head coachs, most players suceeded despite the coaching....It wasn't just a corner problem...It was especially bad at corner cause the team had no clue how to evaluate a corner so they drafted players like Toast about 5 rounds to high....or pick someone with previous knee problems and then have them blow a knee up in the first game of the year.

I am really sick of the team paying for guys past their prime and I was happy as hell to see Taylor and Vincent go to other teams...I want youth on this team, I want players that Marvin Lewis has a chance to develop and mold, not players past thier prime and that's what Taylor, Vincent, Sapp, and Gardener were....(of those, Gardenner was the only safe one as his contract was incentive based and not based on the past)

[HoosierCat]

Oh, I almost forgot. No. 6 on my list of the worst things to happen to the bengals this offseason (and if I had it to do over again I might make it No. 1)...

[bengalsfan33]

I'm glad to see that they got rid of Corey Dillon.

I guess you could say that is good.

One bad thing is the when they could have got Sapp but Oakland stole him and it had to hurt the Bengals not getting him.

[JPW]

Gardner and Weathersby out.

If healthy, both could have significantly helped out the worst parts of our football team. 

D-LINE  and SECONDARY.

SUX MANE!

DARYL GARDENER......

I see the DL as the weakest link on the team and a healthy Gardener would be a Very Nice Fit.

There still hasn't been any Offical word on it.

It is possible that he is seeing Dr. Gieseke for an operation to correct the problem.

But if it turns out to be true, that Gardener won't be able to play for The Bengals, that is the worst thing to happen this off season.