No. 2 seed on the line at SD

[membengal]

Here it is in a nutshell for me:

If you don't have a qb playing at a high level in the playoffs, you better be almost hisorically good elsewhere on the team. Like that Ravens team that won a SB with their defense, in large measure. Or even that 2005 steelers team that carried Roeth to a title.

I love what Cincy has done on defense, but I think injuries have robbed that unit of its chance to be anywhere near that level, a level sufficient to cover up for what is a really flawed offensive unit at the moment.

If I had some inkling that Palmer and the o-line and the receivers could snap out of this, I might feel differently, but I don't see it. For whatever reason, it is not clicking, and does not appear to be close to clicking.

ETA: Unlike Pong and Shula, I don't see the need to clutter the board bitching about that problem. I am delighted they have gotten this far with this team, and am hoping for the playoffs and a playoff win. I love the foundation that is in place, and think it is something that can be built on for 2010 and beyond and that the offensive issues are correctable in time.

[walzav29]

I know Palmer has the ability. We've seen it this year vs Chicago and those comeback drives. I think they just have to figure it out.

[membengal]

Sure Palmer has the ability. I think he is an elite-level qb. But he is not showing it right now, for whatever reason, be it line play, play-calling, confidence in his receivers, etc. etc. etc.

Don't know if it was the Henry loss to injury. Don't know if teams got enough film to take away what Cincy was doing and the Bengals have not adjusted. Don't know.

But it sure seems more probable than not it won't get magically fixed now if it has not been fixable to this point. So, again, my expectations for this club are measured. I still want the playoffs at this point, and they damn well better beat KC and claim it like they mean it. And I want them to win a playoff game.

Anything beyond that? Ridiculous amounts of gravy on a season that is already swimming in gravy from my viewpoint...

[membengal]

Because I don't agree they have the talent and that it is simply a matter of "not executing".

There is no question that they have the talent to do better. Much of the penalty problems have noting at all to do with talent level -- the false starts, delays of game, late hits out of bounds, kickoffs out of bounds. Whether they have sufficient talent to make a run in the playoffs is open to debate, but they are certainly going nowhere fast if they don't clean up their act.

Sure they can clean some stuff up. And I did not mean to give the impression that they are untalented. I simply think, even with cleaning up the obvious stuff, there are limits to what is reasonable to expect from this group talentwise.

[Pidge]

Because I don't agree they have the talent and that it is simply a matter of "not executing". Particularly on offense. This team is deeply flawed, in my view, and has greatly exceeded what was reasonable to expect. So, yeah, I am a bit more sanguine about the Minny loss than some of you.

^This, a billion times. A playoff berth, for this group of players is a very good achievement, and credit goes to the coaches too. Sure, once you're in the playoffs anything can happen. The Cards didn't have a D last yr and we don't have a passing attack this yr so all hope is not lost.

If our post season party is a bit too brief for our liking though then I won't be too despondent. I never expected them to even be there.

[walzav29]

Well ther good news is that we haven't panicked like this since the tipped pass vs Den. Hopefully they'll respond the same way.

[kingwilly]

Because I don't agree they have the talent and that it is simply a matter of "not executing".

There is no question that they have the talent to do better. Much of the penalty problems have noting at all to do with talent level -- the false starts, delays of game, late hits out of bounds, kickoffs out of bounds. Whether they have sufficient talent to make a run in the playoffs is open to debate, but they are certainly going nowhere fast if they don't clean up their act.

Sure they can clean some stuff up. And I did not mean to give the impression that they are untalented. I simply think, even with cleaning up the obvious stuff, there are limits to what is reasonable to expect from this group talentwise.

I think the issue that everyone is having is that this team actually does have the components to have a very good passing game. Chad, Coles, Caldwell, Palmer, BScott, Leonard and Foschi.

If used properly, the big IF, they can be very effective. Now, unless Palmer's arm/elbow does have an issue, or Chad just does not have the wheels like he did, this passing game can come alive. I think it is the plays being called, and not using guys like Coles and Caldwell properly. If Brat calls the plays to the strength of those two, this team has every tool necessary to go deep in the playoffs.

I expected them to go 10-6 to 8-8. The way they've gotten to 9-4 is what is the surprise. Smash-mouth running attack, light on the passing, zero no-huddle, and very good D. That is just not Bengals football as we've come to know it in the last 10 years. So, a big problem I think we all are having is coming to grips with this "style" of play, whereas we used to expect a strong-armed Palmer to fire the ball all over the field and then run the ball off the pass.

If anything, this season can be seen as a success by any measure to date simply in the sweep of he AFC North foes, and the play of the D. The running game is another surprise but we did see it flash a bit at the end of last year. What none of us were expecting was a passing game that is closer to what we had with Cryan Fitzsacktrick pulling the trigger. All you have to do to defend the Bengals is scheme off those games last year.

[membengal]

Well ther good news is that we haven't panicked like this since the tipped pass vs Den. Hopefully they'll respond the same way.

In all seriousness, who is panicking? Is that directed at me?

[walzav29]

Well ther good news is that we haven't panicked like this since the tipped pass vs Den. Hopefully they'll respond the same way.

In all seriousness, who is panicking? Is that directed at me?

Me

[ArmyBengal]

Sorry for the work blockage keeping me from responding earlier, but I completly understand what you are saying here Mem and agree with the fact they aren't performing right now. I agree they aren't clicking, but all the things they aren't doing right now, they HAVE done this season. Some of that changing has to do with people getting hurt. Roy Williams hurt in my opinion because of what he brought in mental and physical attitude. Odom hurt in the pass rush he was giving the defense. Peko hurts in the running game and Henry hurts in the passing game. Those are some big shoes, but Peko will be back and they have still be able to get pressure on opposing QB's.

The pre-snap penalties are enough to make me throw things around the room and smack of a team with little discipline. The pre-snap yardage lost KILLS what they can do offensively and puts the in a bind. I simply don't get seeing that stuff at the volume we are at this point in the season. Seeing Shayne shank kickoffs out of bounds is enough to make me want to go to his house and pack his sh*t for him. Inexcusable and yes, I've been a huge fan of Shayne's.

I simply believe this team can execute, but isn't. Be it injuries, lack of focus, or a combination, they aren't playing well.

[volcom69]

Ok so heres a question for you guys! Why is Mathis not starting again, when he was starting the pass game was good, and Palmer had time to throw. Also whats up with the o-line shuffle. I dont know about this game but in the other game they keep swapping o-line players all game long. I like the jumbo package and its fine to do it then, but to have Livings play the 1st and 3rd quarter, and Mathis to play the 2nd and 4 quaters seems kind of strange to me. What about RT they seem to shuffle 3 guys in there all game. How can this line ever gel if they keep rotating players in and out. Either way i still think Mathis needs to start.

[Pidge]

Good point about mathis. I just assumed he wasn't 100% yet and they were taking it slow. The disruption to the line his injury seems to have caused (hell of a coincidence otherwise) is horrible.

[volcom69]

Good point about mathis. I just assumed he wasn't 100% yet and they were taking it slow. The disruption to the line his injury seems to have caused (hell of a coincidence otherwise) is horrible.

Hes been healthy for a couple of weeks, and have been subbin in and out with Livings. I just dont get the whole o-line shuffle thing, how is anyone supposed to gel on that line. LT,C,RG are the only ones that people are not subbin in and out. Find 2 guys and leave them in there, let Mathis and Smith play or something.

[Pidge]

Good point about mathis. I just assumed he wasn't 100% yet and they were taking it slow. The disruption to the line his injury seems to have caused (hell of a coincidence otherwise) is horrible.

Hes been healthy for a couple of weeks, and have been subbin in and out with Livings. I just dont get the whole o-line shuffle thing, how is anyone supposed to gel on that line. LT,C,RG are the only ones that people are not subbin in and out. Find 2 guys and leave them in there, let Mathis and Smith play or something.

Indeed, I meant they might not just have shoved him in as the guy and instead are wary of the injury and are working him in slowly.

If he's fit, and I would assume he either is or isn't (in which case sit him entirely), put him back in the the LG and leave him there. He was doing a damn fine job. As for the RT situation, I'll leave that to others to dsicuss. Stability would be a good thing though surely?