Any chance Andre Smith is signed...ever?

[Kazkal]

Reading Chief & Seahawk forums

Chiefs are waiting for Curry to sign

Seahawks are waiting for Jackon to sign

So if Mike Brown is waiting for Aaron Curry to sign \facepalm

[derekshank]

Reading Chief & Seahawk forums

Chiefs are waiting for Curry to sign

Seahawks are waiting for Jackon to sign

So if Mike Brown is waiting for Aaron Curry to sign \facepalm

How much leverage could Brown get with waiting for Curry to sign? Curry's contract won't change Heyward-Bey's contract. Even if Brown wants to argue that Sanchez got a 20% increase because he is a QB, Heyward-Bey got something like a 15% increase over last year's #7. Brown doesn't have a ton of leverage to play with, even if Curry signs something less than Sanchez.

I just don't believe that's the strategy... because A. Smith has already been slotted. The premise that Brown is going to wait for everyone else in hopes of saving a few pennies is just speculation based on the bias that he's extraordinarily cheap. No foundation other than that.

[Bearcat1975]

Reading Chief & Seahawk forums

Chiefs are waiting for Curry to sign

Seahawks are waiting for Jackon to sign

So if Mike Brown is waiting for Aaron Curry to sign \facepalm

How much leverage could Brown get with waiting for Curry to sign? Curry's contract won't change Heyward-Bey's contract. Even if Brown wants to argue that Sanchez got a 20% increase because he is a QB, Heyward-Bey got something like a 15% increase over last year's #7. Brown doesn't have a ton of leverage to play with, even if Curry signs something less than Sanchez.

I just don't believe that's the strategy... because A. Smith has already been slotted. The premise that Brown is going to wait for everyone else in hopes of saving a few pennies is just speculation based on the bias that he's extraordinarily cheap. No foundation other than that.

No, it is based on the fact that Brown waits for the rest of the league to slot before he signs his man almost EVERY year. And he is doing the exact same thing this season. The only thing left for him to do is cut a few vets at the last minute and pocket the cap savings.

But hey, lets give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure it is just plain ole dumb luck why we rarely get our 1st rounder in on time.

[HairOnFire]

No, it is based on the fact that Brown waits for the rest of the league to slot before he signs his man almost EVERY year. And he is doing the exact same thing this season.

You know, for a self-described smart guy you seem to little more than a firm grasp of the obvious. In fact, you never seem to say anything that hasn't already been said a million times. So knowing how little thought you put into your musings I guess my only question for you is..."When will you start blogging?"

The only thing left for him to do is cut a few vets at the last minute and pocket the cap savings.

Now that you mention it, how funny would it be if the Bengals announced they were cutting Willie, Rudi, and Deltha again? No kidding, what a great reminder that would be of how none of those guys could play worth a crap anymore yet are somehow still missed by a few local dumb guys.

[Clackwoods]

I am with you, he is pretty damn negative. I honestly don't seeing us do a salary cap purge this off season, there just aren't many vets that are being over paid in my opinion.

[walzav29]

Pat Kirwan says that alot of teams are trying to get 6 year deals, but the players want 5 year deals. On top of that senile scumbag Al Davis screwing up the pay scale.

[derekshank]

Pat Kirwan says that alot of teams are trying to get 6 year deals, but the players want 5 year deals. On top of that senile scumbag Al Davis screwing up the pay scale.

That was the problem with Chris Perry's holdout. The Bengals finally got him to agree to the 6 year deal. Damn, I wish they would have only given him 5.

[ArmyBengal]

In fact, Marvin has basically said that the starting job will be waiting for Smith when he gets there.

This is the quote from Marvin I was trying to find yesterday...

Lewis said, “When he gets here, we’ll work with him and give him every opportunity to contribute to this football team as quickly as possible. And based on his abilities, I believe he’ll be able to do that.”

This is also what he had to say about Collins filling in until Smith signs...

“We’ve really not had significant work, but Anthony proved to us last year that he could come in and play good football in the NFL,” Lewis said. “It’s a matter of him settling in, and if indeed he ends up being the best player, then he’ll be the best player.”

Take those quotes how you want...

[Ickey44]

In fact, Marvin has basically said that the starting job will be waiting for Smith when he gets there.

This is the quote from Marvin I was trying to find yesterday...

Lewis said, “When he gets here, we’ll work with him and give him every opportunity to contribute to this football team as quickly as possible. And based on his abilities, I believe he’ll be able to do that.”

This is also what he had to say about Collins filling in until Smith signs...

“We’ve really not had significant work, but Anthony proved to us last year that he could come in and play good football in the NFL,” Lewis said. “It’s a matter of him settling in, and if indeed he ends up being the best player, then he’ll be the best player.”

Take those quotes how you want...

To me it means that there's a position battle at RT. Smith shouldn't just be handed the starting job anyway, he should have to earn it like everyone else, 1st round pick or not.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Now that you mention it, how funny would it be if the Bengals announced they were cutting Willie, Rudi, and Deltha again? No kidding, what a great reminder that would be of how none of those guys could play worth a crap anymore yet are somehow still missed by a few local dumb guys.

I don't want to interrupt you since you're on a roll there, but Willie had a little more in the tank when the Bengals let him go. Deltha? Had to go. Rudi? I'm not convinced that his suckage the last year with the Bengals and then with the Lions wasn't more to do with the atrocity of the respective offensive lines, but we'll never know now.

And even if some of the cuts make sense, their timing frequently didn't. In any event, it's hard to tell if this latest holdout has more to do with the Bengals or the agent...but the Bengals *did* know what they were getting with this guy, didn't they?

By the way, you forgot Levi Jones.

[Ickey44]

Now that you mention it, how funny would it be if the Bengals announced they were cutting Willie, Rudi, and Deltha again? No kidding, what a great reminder that would be of how none of those guys could play worth a crap anymore yet are somehow still missed by a few local dumb guys.

I don't want to interrupt you since you're on a roll there, but Willie had a little more in the tank when the Bengals let him go. Deltha? Had to go. Rudi? I'm not convinced that his suckage the last year with the Bengals and then with the Lions wasn't more to do with the atrocity of the respective offensive lines, but we'll never know now.

And even if some of the cuts make sense, their timing frequently didn't. In any event, it's hard to tell if this latest holdout has more to do with the Bengals or the agent...but the Bengals *did* know what they were getting with this guy, didn't they?

By the way, you forgot Levi Jones.

Levi needed to go. So did Rudi and Deltha. The only one I had a problem with was Willie and it apparently turned out alright because he retired due to injuries. So I really don't know what the complaint is about those cuts anymore.

[ArmyBengal]

They really need to get this done and then focus on what they are going to do with the rest of the o-line in regards to their contracts.

B. Williams, Kooistra, Livings, Roland, and one K. Cook are all free agents next season. Cook, Livings, and Roland are RFA's.

[Clackwoods]

Andre Smith will be starting come day one. We are using Collins as a negotiating tool to make him think that we DONT need him so he will be less stubborn in signing. How many top ten tackles in the last twenty years can you name that didn't start from day one? A team that uses a pick that high on a tackle Needs them on the field not on the sideline. Mike won't pay a guy 5-10 million a year to sit on the sideline unless he is a rookie QB.

[ArmyBengal]

I agree in that regardless of what is or isn't said, that A. Smith will be starting week one minus some catastrophe...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Now that you mention it, how funny would it be if the Bengals announced they were cutting Willie, Rudi, and Deltha again? No kidding, what a great reminder that would be of how none of those guys could play worth a crap anymore yet are somehow still missed by a few local dumb guys.

I don't want to interrupt you since you're on a roll there, but Willie had a little more in the tank when the Bengals let him go. Deltha? Had to go. Rudi? I'm not convinced that his suckage the last year with the Bengals and then with the Lions wasn't more to do with the atrocity of the respective offensive lines, but we'll never know now.

And even if some of the cuts make sense, their timing frequently didn't. In any event, it's hard to tell if this latest holdout has more to do with the Bengals or the agent...but the Bengals *did* know what they were getting with this guy, didn't they?

By the way, you forgot Levi Jones.

Levi needed to go. So did Rudi and Deltha. The only one I had a problem with was Willie and it apparently turned out alright because he retired due to injuries. So I really don't know what the complaint is about those cuts anymore.

The timing of them...as they had no time to sign any sort of replacements and could've done so earlier in the off-season during the FA period, but chose not to...and went 4-11. I don't know how it's a surprise that your own veteran players can't play anymore until just before the season starts.

So it reeks of scapegoating and being done for reasons other than ability. The way they did Willie after all those years was ridiculous and why players don't want to be here so often.

[membengal]

As for this situation, if I have the nfl.com page read right, the pick before the Raiders at #7 (Cincy's) and the next five after the Raiders (and six of the next seven) are all unsigned. So, I would guess, anecdotally, that the Heyward-Bey largesse from Al Crypt Keeper is indeed f**king things up a bit.

It's always something.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

As for this situation, if I have the nfl.com page read right, the pick before the Raiders at #7 (Cincy's) and the next five after the Raiders (and six of the next seven) are all unsigned. So, I would guess, anecdotally, that the Heyward-Bey largesse from Al Crypt Keeper is indeed f**king things up a bit.

It's always something.

Worse than that is that Crabtree has pulled out the nuclear option (threatening to re-enter the draft in 2010) while holding out for top-5 money because his people claims he's top-5 talent. Like every pick doesn't say that. So here, the picks around Crabtree are hoping his agent makes it rain, at which point they would demand money similar to Crabtree's.

In this case, by actually signing, Al Davis has at least added a slight modicum of stability to the 6-12 range of picks. Yes, that's right - in this screwed up draft, Al Davis is not the crazy one.

[HoTbOy]

This is why I'm becoming more and more of a fan of slotting the whole 1st round like they do in the NBA, wherever you get drafted is the money you are going to get whatever the position and let it be the same every year, that way every pick is in on time unless the team just does not want to pay, not this 10%-20% increase s**t every year...

[HairOnFire]

I don't want to interrupt you since you're on a roll there, but Willie had a little more in the tank when the Bengals let him go.

If you want to argue his tank wasn't completely dry when cut loose, well...that's up to you. As for me I would have cut Anderson sooner than the Bengals did. But remember, despite playing for another team in yet another platoon with a younger player helping carry the load Anderson managed to last just 11 more games. So if I'm second guessing the Bengals on this one it's due to them not cutting Anderson sooner, not when they actually dropped the hammer.

And even if some of the cuts make sense, their timing frequently didn't.

See above. But really, why quibble about it? All of the cut players were signed by new teams that treated them as no more than bandaids, temporary solutions added only to fill a position until the new team could draft a younger replacement. And yeah, they all did. In fact, not one of the cut players is currently on an NFL roster....which probably says everything about this rant anyone really needs to know.

By the way, you forgot Levi Jones.

I didn't include Jones because I was responding to MamaBear/Bearcat/GroundHog whinings, and he hadn't mentioned him. But sure, add him to the still growing list (Reggie Kelly) of older underperforming veterans who have been pushed off the roster for a multitude of reasons, including being too old, grossly overpaid, physically broken down, or any combination of those things.

I'm glad they're gone.

There, I said it.

[HoTbOy]

HOF I agree with you that the Bengals seem to keep these players longer than what they are worth and never have a capable backup available...I may have tried to keep DOneal as the 3rd corner, but otherwise let's get younger people in there now who can play and not wait until someone is on their last legs...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If you want to argue his tank wasn't completely dry when cut loose, well...that's up to you. As for me I would have cut Anderson sooner than the Bengals did. But remember, despite playing for another team in yet another platoon with a younger player helping carry the load Anderson managed to last just 11 more games. So if I'm second guessing the Bengals on this one it's due to them not cutting Anderson sooner, not when they actually dropped the hammer.

That's the crux of the timing issue - Willie's knees were bad when they extended him, they were (if anything) better when they cut him. Personally, I wouldn't have extended him...but having signed him, I wouldn't have then cut him. It's those sort of 'WTF' moves that make the Bengals front office look like it's run by a chimp throwing at a dartboard sometimes.

Or like cutting Levi. I'd have probably cut him earlier to clear his salary off the books during FA.

[HairOnFire]

I don't know how it's a surprise that your own veteran players can't play anymore until just before the season starts.

Bulls**t. The Bengals spoke openly about their decision to pay Anderson a 2 million dollar roster bonus due to their desire to further evaluate his medical condition and retain his services if he could prove himself capable of still starting. Frankly, I wouldn't have done it and I said so loudly, but the overwhelming majority of Bengal fans not only approved paying the bonus, but were incredulous when the Bengals quite correctly asked Anderson to take a pay cut or be released. So don't pretend Anderson's situation was strictly concerned with his declining level of play. It also involved the amount of money Anderson was due to make and whether or not his level of play could justify his paycheck. And on that point the answer was no.

The way they did Willie after all those years was ridiculous and why players don't want to be here so often.

The biggest mistake the Bengals made in regards to Anderson, and I think it's been proven beyond any doubt, is they should have cut him when his roster bonus was due. But because they were too interested in things like respect, loyalty, and other such soft concerns they ended up wasting 2 million bucks on an aging ungrateful emotionally sleepwalking player who not only didn't acknolwedge the gesture, but later admitted his heart was no longer interested in playing for the Bengals. And knowing all of this to be true my question for you is why shouldn't Anderson have been cut? Or rather, how should the Bengals have better treated his giant sleepwalking unmotivated ass?

[derekshank]

Or like cutting Levi. I'd have probably cut him earlier to clear his salary off the books during FA.

It is times like this that I remember that Mike Brown is not actually a worst case scenario.

How the hell are you going to cut your starting LT before you know what you got in the draft? In March there was talk of 3 OT's going in the top 5 picks. If the Bengaps cut Levi prior tithe draft, they would have been forcing themselves to reach for whatever OT was available, regardless of his overall value.

If these are the kinds of risks that the average fan would take as a GM, I guess I'm going to have to start questioning my overall dissatisfaction with the way Brown runs this team.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't want to further the endless debate of cutting those vets when we did, because it goes back further than that in regards to letting Steinbach walk when they did. However, in relation to the topic, the reports I've read say that Crabtree's agent "PROMISED" him he would go top 3 in the draft and since he didn't, they are still trying to get him that type of money. For Crabtree and his agent to pull this "I'll go into next years draft" sh*t, I think it's shameless. Nothing would please me more than to see Crabtree sit for as long as they can force him. He's the next version of Chad and it looks like the Browns had it right when they labeled him a diva headcase prior to the draft.

He's not affecting A. Smith getting into camp either, so f*ck him...

[Ickey44]

Now that you mention it, how funny would it be if the Bengals announced they were cutting Willie, Rudi, and Deltha again? No kidding, what a great reminder that would be of how none of those guys could play worth a crap anymore yet are somehow still missed by a few local dumb guys.

I don't want to interrupt you since you're on a roll there, but Willie had a little more in the tank when the Bengals let him go. Deltha? Had to go. Rudi? I'm not convinced that his suckage the last year with the Bengals and then with the Lions wasn't more to do with the atrocity of the respective offensive lines, but we'll never know now.

And even if some of the cuts make sense, their timing frequently didn't. In any event, it's hard to tell if this latest holdout has more to do with the Bengals or the agent...but the Bengals *did* know what they were getting with this guy, didn't they?

By the way, you forgot Levi Jones.

Levi needed to go. So did Rudi and Deltha. The only one I had a problem with was Willie and it apparently turned out alright because he retired due to injuries. So I really don't know what the complaint is about those cuts anymore.

The timing of them...as they had no time to sign any sort of replacements and could've done so earlier in the off-season during the FA period, but chose not to...and went 4-11. I don't know how it's a surprise that your own veteran players can't play anymore until just before the season starts.

So it reeks of scapegoating and being done for reasons other than ability. The way they did Willie after all those years was ridiculous and why players don't want to be here so often.

Lots of people get cut after the 4th preseason game. Every team has to cut down their roster to 53 after the final preseason game. They used all four games to determine whether or not to keep them. Aside from that, this is a business and as such there is no honor on either side so the timing shouldn't matter to anyone.

As far as Willie, as Hair has mentioned multiple times, he received a $2 million roster bonus months before he was cut. If their intention was really just to screw him over they would've cut him before paying him the bonus. They watched him play all four preseason games, decided he didn't have it anymore and offered to keep him at reduced salary. Pure business.