Shayne Graham

[HairOnFire]

I actually had several offers, including a full ride at the University of Phoenix.

What exactly is a full ride at a mail-order university? After enrolling do they send you a free book of stamps?

I ended up turning them all down and walked on at Minnesota State.

Is there any chance you could get me Luther Van Dam's autograph? His defensive schemes were ahead of their time and I've always felt any success Hayden Fox had was the result of Luther's defensive coaching. Well, that and Coach Dauber's special teams.

I kicked the game winning fg in the 1993 Pioneer Bowl to beat West Texas.

Season 6, episode 11.

Good times.

[HairOnFire]

I actually had several offers, including a full ride at the University of Phoenix.

What a coincidence. I played DE for DeVry in the 1997 Rochambeau Bowl. Key to winning that game was the coin toss.

What a coincidence. I was the starting DE for the Columbus College of Art and Design. (The Fight'n Stipplers!)

The key to winning our games was correctly guessing how the light would play over a playing field covered with draped fabrics and bowls of fruit. Sadly, while in the midst of an undefeated season our starting QB decided he hadn't suffered enough for his art and cut his own ear off.

We never won another game.

[Dadraftnick]

There is nothing funnier than an athelete crying about getting a long term contract.

Let me translate- He has been offered several longterm contracts and he wants more money.

Let me translate - if he getts a big long term contract, it means a big sighing bonus , that way if he sucks and gets cut he keeps the signing bonus.

Let me translate- if he gets big long-term contract in , in 2 year he can claim he has out played his contract and demand a trade so , if the team trades him, he keeps the signing bonus and gets a new contract or the team gives in and gives in and gives a new contract-ala Chad.

I cant stand Shane Graham , as a kicker he OK but , as a person he sucks.

One thing I hate is an athelete or celeb thinking its their job to harp on politics- - I hate it. -from either side.

If he excited about a canidate FINE! just keep it out of every interview about football.

He needs to worry a little more about not blowing games on last minute misses- and alot less about pushing his polotics.

[Ickey44]

I cant stand Shane Graham , as a kicker he OK but , as a person he sucks.

How do you figure that? He has done just as much (if not more) work in the community here as any other player. What on earth leads you to believe he sucks as a person? Because he said he wants a long term contract? So what? Every player wants that. Why should he be any different?

[derekshank]

I actually had several offers, including a full ride at the University of Phoenix.

What exactly is a full ride at a mail-order university? After enrolling do they send you a free book of stamps?

I ended up turning them all down and walked on at Minnesota State.

Is there any chance you could get me Luther Van Dam's autograph? His defensive schemes were ahead of their time and I've always felt any success Hayden Fox had was the result of Luther's defensive coaching. Well, that and Coach Dauber's special teams.

I kicked the game winning fg in the 1993 Pioneer Bowl to beat West Texas.

Season 6, episode 11.

Good times.

Nicely done.

[ArmyBengal]

I cant stand Shane Graham , as a kicker he OK but , as a person he sucks.

Just a quick question... Have you ever met him or are you going off of something else like political position ??

That just seems like a really harsh statement to make about a guy as a person. Especially with some of the community things he does.

[gregstephens]

I cant stand Shane Graham , as a kicker he OK but , as a person he sucks.

Just a quick question... Have you ever met him or are you going off of something else like political position ??

That just seems like a really harsh statement to make about a guy as a person. Especially with some of the community things he does.

Yeah, that's kinda like Hoos getting on us 'Chad haters' who never met the guy. Even I've never said Fredo sucks as a person. He might have character flaws that display themselves on the field and in the locker room, but I've heard he's great to his grandma that raised him. Fredo might be a great person, I dunno.

Who knows? Maybe Shayne owes 'nick a wad of cash!

[ArmyBengal]

You can make assumptions that the guy is a sh*t person, but they are usually based on something and I was just asking if there was something else that maybe he was aware as I've never heard anything to the contrary. Yeah I've made the assumption about Chad, but that's based on his unprofessionalism that I've personally (as every fan has) witnessed. That type of thing DOES carry over into a personal side of life. Neither here nor there in the grand scheme, I was just wondering...

[BengalSIS]

There is nothing funnier than an athelete crying about getting a long term contract.

Let me translate- He has been offered several longterm contracts and he wants more money.

Let me translate - if he getts a big long term contract, it means a big sighing bonus , that way if he sucks and gets cut he keeps the signing bonus.

Let me translate- if he gets big long-term contract in , in 2 year he can claim he has out played his contract and demand a trade so , if the team trades him, he keeps the signing bonus and gets a new contract or the team gives in and gives in and gives a new contract-ala Chad.

I cant stand Shane Graham , as a kicker he OK but , as a person he sucks.

One thing I hate is an athelete or celeb thinking its their job to harp on politics- - I hate it. -from either side.

If he excited about a canidate FINE! just keep it out of every interview about football.

He needs to worry a little more about not blowing games on last minute misses- and alot less about pushing his polotics.

Did I miss something? As far as I know...he's never pushed his politics into things.

If he did get asked a question about politics, I suspect he answered it, but I don't think anyone can accuse him of pushing his beliefs on anyone.

And you have no idea what he was or was not offered, thank you very much. And he's never demanded anything. So please keep your babblefish translations to yourself unless you have some proof.

Oh, and spell his name right for cripes sake...

[Dadraftnick]

I cant stand Shane Graham , as a kicker he OK but , as a person he sucks.

Just a quick question... Have you ever met him or are you going off of something else like political position ??

That just seems like a really harsh statement to make about a guy as a person. Especially with some of the community things he does.

Yes, I have met him ,at camp , if you count that.

I am sure he is a great guy, I was trying to make a point .

I am sick of people thinking that they need to shove their political point of view down your throat in places that it shouldnt be bought up in.

I dont know how many times (nearly all ) I have heard him be asked about football - in a football interview, and he starts in on his political rant.- Its not the right place for it.

I am sick of it from both sides - Rush Limbaugh should have never been put on ESPN, he knows nothing about football, Christ, he is a Pittsburgh fan - if I what to hear politics I will listen to Rush Limbaugh on the radio or Air America.

I turn sports to get away from that crap.

Its like when you hear Celeb-retards giving their view on the war, they think that they know more than the Generals, President.. ect.---- How does acting in a movie qualify you to make those dicisions?

How does kicking a footaball qualify Shane Grahm to tell us who to vote for?

If anyone is so dumb (sadly some are) that they need a celeb or athlete to tell them who to vote for then the are probably too dumb to vote.

If he wants to go to a campaign and support his guys fine, an interview about football is not the place to shove it in all of the time.

[Ickey44]

Is anyone forcing you to listen to his interviews? You have the freedom to change the channel or not to read something. Everyone has a right to express their own opinion. Even you, who uses that right to bitch about one of the most respected members of our beloved team.

[TJJackson]

I sure hope Huber takes over on kickoffs

I'd like to see a few reach the end zone

[BengalSIS]

I sure hope Huber takes over on kickoffs

I'd like to see a few reach the end zone

Can you read? Just wondering. Not judging.

[TJJackson]

Yep, I can read

I see real well too

I see kickoffs regularly not reaching the end zone

I see kickoffs sometimes not even making it to the 5

[BengalSIS]

I cant stand Shane Graham , as a kicker he OK but , as a person he sucks.

Just a quick question... Have you ever met him or are you going off of something else like political position ??

That just seems like a really harsh statement to make about a guy as a person. Especially with some of the community things he does.

Yes, I have met him ,at camp , if you count that.

I am sure he is a great guy, I was trying to make a point .

I am sick of people thinking that they need to shove their political point of view down your throat in places that it shouldnt be bought up in.

I dont know how many times (nearly all ) I have heard him be asked about football - in a football interview, and he starts in on his political rant.- Its not the right place for it.

I am sick of it from both sides - Rush Limbaugh should have never been put on ESPN, he knows nothing about football, Christ, he is a Pittsburgh fan - if I what to hear politics I will listen to Rush Limbaugh on the radio or Air America.

I turn sports to get away from that crap.

Its like when you hear Celeb-retards giving their view on the war, they think that they know more than the Generals, President.. ect.---- How does acting in a movie qualify you to make those dicisions?

How does kicking a footaball qualify Shane Grahm to tell us who to vote for?

If anyone is so dumb (sadly some are) that they need a celeb or athlete to tell them who to vote for then the are probably too dumb to vote.

If he wants to go to a campaign and support his guys fine, an interview about football is not the place to shove it in all of the time.

What the heck are you talking about? Can some corroborate this story of shayne shoving politics down anyone's throat?

Did someone pee in your cornflakes? Seriously? Shayne isn't on TV that much.

And if you are so dumb as to think giving an opinion (assuming he did, which i don't even know) is like telling others who to vote for, then.....

Is being famous all of a sudden the time when you have to shut up about what you think about things if asked?

Seems to me like you have a chip on your shoulder.

If he's been on so many rants, give me some you tube links....because I've seen his TV/Bengals interviews a lot, and well...I've never heard him talk about anything but football unless it was for his veteran or kids charity work.

[Jet23]

I sure hope Huber takes over on kickoffs

I'd like to see a few reach the end zone

Can you read? Just wondering. Not judging.

Shayne is obviously working very hard on his kickoffs, which is commendable, but I have seen this process have a negative effect on the accuracy of other kickers. Having a punter that can also kickoff will only add to Shayne's value (ala Jim Breech). It will also allow him to continue to work on his greatest attribute, which is accuracy. Not to mention the decreased likelihood of injury.

As far as the political stuff, I have not heard it. Nor do I blame him for holding out for the best contract he can get. But, IMHO if he wants to land a long term contract in the top 5 kicker range, I think he will be gone.

[BengalSIS]

I sure hope Huber takes over on kickoffs

I'd like to see a few reach the end zone

Can you read? Just wondering. Not judging.

Shayne is obviously working very hard on his kickoffs, which is commendable, but I have seen this process have a negative effect on the accuracy of other kickers. Having a punter that can also kickoff will only add to Shayne's value (ala Jim Breech). It will also allow him to continue to work on his greatest attribute, which is accuracy. Not to mention the decreased likelihood of injury.

As far as the political stuff, I have not heard it. Nor do I blame him for holding out for the best contract he can get. But, IMHO if he wants to land a long term contract in the top 5 kicker range, I think he will be gone.

I just posted stats showing his kickoffs are on par and better than many of the most accurate of kickers.

I don't get what people want here. And btw...Huber, from what I understand...is not a kickoff guy.

It's not the simple job people think it is. And you are correct. Great kickoff guys are not great FG kickers....a long look at stats will corroborate that statement. I want him to improve his strength, but not at the sacrifice of technique on FG. The kicks are completely different motions (from a physics perspective).

[BengalSIS]

Yep, I can read

I see real well too

I see kickoffs regularly not reaching the end zone

I see kickoffs sometimes not even making it to the 5

You obviously don't watch any other games either. Cuz their kickers have those kicks too. Read the stats just posted. Duh.

And MOST of his kicks are inside the 5 or past goal line. Squib kicks and late season winter kicks with wind pull stats down by end of year. Sure would be nice to kick in dome or in the south like most of the kickers ranked the highest in overall distance.

[TJJackson]

*shrug*

I hear ya loud and clear, but I do watch the games, and I am ignoring all squib kicks (those are an entirely different animal)

[Jet23]

I sure hope Huber takes over on kickoffs

I'd like to see a few reach the end zone

Can you read? Just wondering. Not judging.

Shayne is obviously working very hard on his kickoffs, which is commendable, but I have seen this process have a negative effect on the accuracy of other kickers. Having a punter that can also kickoff will only add to Shayne's value (ala Jim Breech). It will also allow him to continue to work on his greatest attribute, which is accuracy. Not to mention the decreased likelihood of injury.

As far as the political stuff, I have not heard it. Nor do I blame him for holding out for the best contract he can get. But, IMHO if he wants to land a long term contract in the top 5 kicker range, I think he will be gone.

I just posted stats showing his kickoffs are on par and better than many of the most accurate of kickers.

I don't get what people want here. And btw...Huber, from what I understand...is not a kickoff guy.

It's not the simple job people think it is. And you are correct. Great kickoff guys are not great FG kickers....a long look at stats will corroborate that statement. I want him to improve his strength, but not at the sacrifice of technique on FG. The kicks are completely different motions (from a physics perspective).

I do not believe that anyone is arguing that it is simple. But, what does that have to do with anything? The argument is whether Shayne is a top 5 kicker. Is it any easier for the rest of the kickers?

It seems to me that Doug Pelfrey's accuracy went south when he attempted to increase his kickoff distance. It's like a singles hitter working on his upper body strength to increase his power. He is likely to do so, but he almost always sacrifices several batting average points in the process.

I have always thought it makes sense to have your punter kickoff. The Bengals had a great situation with Breech and Lee Johnson. Breech was money inside of 46 yards. Johnson was used on kickoffs and long fgs. But, as long as Shayne continues to do both, he must be judged on his entire performance. It's easy to judge the value of fg accuracy. But, how do you judge the effect of short kickoffs? If the difference between 1 (Josh Brown 68.1) & 32 (Shayne Graham - 63.2) is almost a full 5-yards, wouldn't it be fair to say there is a reasonable number of points involved in that?

I do not know if Huber is a kickoff guy, but I would have to think that they would be better off having him work on kickoffs, rather than have Shayne risk injury & mechanical problems doing the same.

[BengalSIS]

I sure hope Huber takes over on kickoffs

I'd like to see a few reach the end zone

Can you read? Just wondering. Not judging.

Shayne is obviously working very hard on his kickoffs, which is commendable, but I have seen this process have a negative effect on the accuracy of other kickers. Having a punter that can also kickoff will only add to Shayne's value (ala Jim Breech). It will also allow him to continue to work on his greatest attribute, which is accuracy. Not to mention the decreased likelihood of injury.

As far as the political stuff, I have not heard it. Nor do I blame him for holding out for the best contract he can get. But, IMHO if he wants to land a long term contract in the top 5 kicker range, I think he will be gone.

I just posted stats showing his kickoffs are on par and better than many of the most accurate of kickers.

I don't get what people want here. And btw...Huber, from what I understand...is not a kickoff guy.

It's not the simple job people think it is. And you are correct. Great kickoff guys are not great FG kickers....a long look at stats will corroborate that statement. I want him to improve his strength, but not at the sacrifice of technique on FG. The kicks are completely different motions (from a physics perspective).

I do not believe that anyone is arguing that it is simple. But, what does that have to do with anything? The argument is whether Shayne is a top 5 kicker. Is it any easier for the rest of the kickers?

It seems to me that Doug Pelfrey's accuracy went south when he attempted to increase his kickoff distance. It's like a singles hitter working on his upper body strength to increase his power. He is likely to do so, but he almost always sacrifices several batting average points in the process.

I have always thought it makes sense to have your punter kickoff. The Bengals had a great situation with Breech and Lee Johnson. Breech was money inside of 46 yards. Johnson was used on kickoffs and long fgs. But, as long as Shayne continues to do both, he must be judged on his entire performance. It's easy to judge the value of fg accuracy. But, how do you judge the effect of short kickoffs? If the difference between 1 (Josh Brown 68.1) & 32 (Shayne Graham - 63.2) is almost a full 5-yards, wouldn't it be fair to say there is a reasonable number of points involved in that?

I do not know if Huber is a kickoff guy, but I would have to think that they would be better off having him work on kickoffs, rather than have Shayne risk injury & mechanical problems doing the same.

Oh I agree. I wish he didn't have to do them. Every injury he's ever had is because of having to tackle or something from kickoffs.

My point is that "top 5 kickers" are in the same boat as he is. If you want accurate, you likely aren't getting a great kickoff guy. You said Josh Brown...Shayne has a higher TB % than he does. And Shayne kicks in worse conditions a good bit of the time. Not to mention, the % of squib kicks he has to do (for some stupid reason) pull his overall kick distance avg down. It only takes 2 or 3 to pull down considerably.

I wish we had a punter or someone to just boot it. But we don't and they likely won't get one. Larson wasn't good at it, and as I've said, I don't think Huber does it. But if he can....great. I'm just sayin, the overall numbers are more complicated than just looking at avg distance.

[HairOnFire]

Not to mention, the % of squib kicks he has to do (for some stupid reason) pull his overall kick distance avg down. It only takes 2 or 3 to pull down considerably.

The reason wasn't stupid or hard to figure out. Due to a ridiculous amount of injuries across the roster the special teams units were depleted. Those losses forced the team into signing replacements who hadn't spent much time with the team. The end result was vanilla special teams schemes, blown coverages everywhere, and week after week of opposing kick returners ripping off huge returns.....often several times a game. Under those kinds of emergency circumstances I remember loudly begging for the Bengals to start squib kicking and I was happy when they did....kicking stats be damned. Furthermore, I was just as happy when they stopped squibbing a few weeks later after things had normalized.

FWIW, I'm a big fan of Graham and I'm very satisfied with his performance. Granted, I wouldn't mind more distance on his kickoffs and it would be great to have a stronger kicker when facing situations where a 50 yard FG was needed or for that matter....simply being considered. But those considerations aren't so great that I'd give a second thought to replacing Graham. Rather, they only come into play when debating what level of pay Graham deserves, and even then I don't give them so much weight that I wouldn't happily continue paying Opie Top 5 money.

[Jet23]

I sure hope Huber takes over on kickoffs

I'd like to see a few reach the end zone

Can you read? Just wondering. Not judging.

Shayne is obviously working very hard on his kickoffs, which is commendable, but I have seen this process have a negative effect on the accuracy of other kickers. Having a punter that can also kickoff will only add to Shayne's value (ala Jim Breech). It will also allow him to continue to work on his greatest attribute, which is accuracy. Not to mention the decreased likelihood of injury.

As far as the political stuff, I have not heard it. Nor do I blame him for holding out for the best contract he can get. But, IMHO if he wants to land a long term contract in the top 5 kicker range, I think he will be gone.

I just posted stats showing his kickoffs are on par and better than many of the most accurate of kickers.

I don't get what people want here. And btw...Huber, from what I understand...is not a kickoff guy.

It's not the simple job people think it is. And you are correct. Great kickoff guys are not great FG kickers....a long look at stats will corroborate that statement. I want him to improve his strength, but not at the sacrifice of technique on FG. The kicks are completely different motions (from a physics perspective).

I do not believe that anyone is arguing that it is simple. But, what does that have to do with anything? The argument is whether Shayne is a top 5 kicker. Is it any easier for the rest of the kickers?

It seems to me that Doug Pelfrey's accuracy went south when he attempted to increase his kickoff distance. It's like a singles hitter working on his upper body strength to increase his power. He is likely to do so, but he almost always sacrifices several batting average points in the process.

I have always thought it makes sense to have your punter kickoff. The Bengals had a great situation with Breech and Lee Johnson. Breech was money inside of 46 yards. Johnson was used on kickoffs and long fgs. But, as long as Shayne continues to do both, he must be judged on his entire performance. It's easy to judge the value of fg accuracy. But, how do you judge the effect of short kickoffs? If the difference between 1 (Josh Brown 68.1) & 32 (Shayne Graham - 63.2) is almost a full 5-yards, wouldn't it be fair to say there is a reasonable number of points involved in that?

I do not know if Huber is a kickoff guy, but I would have to think that they would be better off having him work on kickoffs, rather than have Shayne risk injury & mechanical problems doing the same.

Oh I agree. I wish he didn't have to do them. Every injury he's ever had is because of having to tackle or something from kickoffs.

My point is that "top 5 kickers" are in the same boat as he is. If you want accurate, you likely aren't getting a great kickoff guy. You said Josh Brown...Shayne has a higher TB % than he does. And Shayne kicks in worse conditions a good bit of the time. Not to mention, the % of squib kicks he has to do (for some stupid reason) pull his overall kick distance avg down. It only takes 2 or 3 to pull down considerably.

I wish we had a punter or someone to just boot it. But we don't and they likely won't get one. Larson wasn't good at it, and as I've said, I don't think Huber does it. But if he can....great. I'm just sayin, the overall numbers are more complicated than just looking at avg distance.

At the risk of making your point for you, I will admit that the hang time on Shayne's kickoffs has improved over the past couple of years. In fact, I was surprised to learn that he was among the leaders as far as yards returned last year. I just did not agree with the fact that he was slapped with the Franchise Tag. He is obviously not thrilled about it either. And you are correct. Huber is not a kickoff guy, but they are apparently married to him now. I just hope that Shayne can stay healthy.

Maybe Shayne should consider having you negotiate his contract....

[blueridge]

If this guy wants Adam Vinatieri money, he should make clutch kicks like Adam Vinatieri. He hasn't. That's the story here. Graham's contract demands are irrational. You can't trust him when the game is on the line. Period. Let him walk. Let some other team pay for his pressure misses.

[Ickey44]

If this guy wants Adam Vinatieri money, he should make clutch kicks like Adam Vinatieri. He hasn't. That's the story here. Graham's contract demands are irrational. You can't trust him when the game is on the line. Period. Let him walk. Let some other team pay for his pressure misses.

Do you know what his contract demands are? They only thing that I know of that's been reported is that he wants a long term contract, not a long term contract PLUS top 5 money. And nobody makes clutch kicks like Vinatieri.