Bengals Free Agency Needs

[derekshank]

Going into the draft, most of us recognized the holes that needed to be filled.

They needed a C (check), an OT (check), a RB (check), a FB (check), and a DE (check).

I guess this is why many of us were so happy with the draft. All our major concerns were dealt with. But now, heading into the part of the offseason where the Bengals are usually most active in free agency, where are the current needs for upgrades?

Here's my opinion...

CB: I'm not happy with what the Bengals will be relying on at nickle... and even more concerned with what happens if Hall or Joseph miss some time with an injury. A lot of the decent CB's still out there are long in the tooth, but there are some players out there yet that would make me feel a lot better about the position.

S: I know Crocker is a fan favorite. I'm happy with him in a rotational role or spot starter, but Ndukwe and Crocker as the day 1 starters doesn't inspire me. Marvin White could easily start the season on the PUP, and if not, will probably not be 100%. The safeties on the roster after Ndukwe, Crocker, and White are not players I want to see on the field much. I know it's controversial, but I'd like to see them bring Roy Williams back for another interview.

Those are my two main concerns. After that, the list fades fairly quickly. I like Kenny Watson, but wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade to a player who would be a bit more productive if Benson were to go down. There's also not much out there, but I wouldn't be opposed to a veteran Center on the roster, since none of the current candidates have started a single NFL game.

[whizzo]

Roy Williams cannot cover (nearly well enough). of course, we're in a run-heavy division, so he might still fit our needs. he would certainly be an upgrade to the D, so i'm OK with pursuing him.

i like the veteran C idea, but we're running short on roster spots to be honest, so i'm hoping luigs and cook can do the deed.

[HoosierCat]

Did Chris McAlister ever sign anywhere? I know he's had knee problems recently but even on one leg he'd probably be the second- or third-best DB on the team...

[ArmyBengal]

Couldn't agree more with bringing in a CB and a Safety. If healthy, JJoe and Hall are good, but health is the concern with JJoe and after them, I'm not anywhere near comfortable with someone else getting the starting spot. Ndukwe and White are nice and I like them as players, but I would like to see more from that position. Roy Williams wouldn't bother me in the least "IF" Zimmer thinks he can contribute in our scheme. If not, forget about him. O-line could always use some better players, because I'm not sold on the backups we currently have on the roster.

Honestly, QB is a position that I would love to see an upgrade to. What if Palmer goes down again ?? O'Sullivan ?? Palmer 2.0 ??

3-13 here we come !!!

Outside of that, I'm pretty happy.

[derekshank]

Roy Williams cannot cover (nearly well enough). of course, we're in a run-heavy division, so he might still fit our needs. he would certainly be an upgrade to the D, so i'm OK with pursuing him.

i like the veteran C idea, but we're running short on roster spots to be honest, so i'm hoping luigs and cook can do the deed.

The interesting thing about Roy Williams is that he asked for his release. He knew he wasn't being used properly. Zimmer was the coordinator in Dallas that got Roy Williams his 5 Pro Bowls. It's clear that if anyone knows how to use Williams effectively, it's Zimmer. And He's certainly better than most anything on the roster at SS if Marvin White isn't healthy.

Did Chris McAlister ever sign anywhere? I know he's had knee problems recently but even on one leg he'd probably be the second- or third-best DB on the team...

Yeah... McAlister is still out there. The free agent CB list includes other old guys like McKenzie, Bly, Surtain, and Law... as well as some not quite over the hill guys in Travis Fisher and Roderick Hood.

The problem with any of these guys would be if they would only come expecting to be starters... when they would likely be playing in the nickle. But yeah... there's a good list of guys I'd prefer over Jones and Castille, but wonder what the price tag would be.

[derekshank]

Honestly, QB is a position that I would love to see an upgrade to. What if Palmer goes down again ?? O'Sullivan ?? Palmer 2.0 ??

3-13 here we come !!!

Yeah... QB is rough. But it's the same story for most teams with a franchise QB. With Cassell gone, who do the Patriots have? Even with him, they went from undefeated to missing the playoffs. The Colts? Ah yes... the legend that is Sorgi.

Anyway... I'm not sure that if you bring in a better back-up like Losman, Frerotte, or even Grossman really makes much of a difference. Palmer is the cornerstone of this team. Without him, they'll have a top 10 pick again.

And on that note - let's assume he does stay healthy this season. The additions in the draft alone should help this team improve exponentially. Let's say they do address CB and S and O-Line depth in free agency. Can the Bengals be the '09 version of the Dolphins - or is this just another team that looks good on paper?

[HoTbOy]

Just saw on ESPN that JClayton seems to think that RWilliams will be in Cincy or nowhere at all, he says that teams are going with smaller S who can interchange on D and that there is not a market for a big physical S like RWilliams right now...

[HoosierCat]

The problem with any of these guys would be if they would only come expecting to be starters... when they would likely be playing in the nickle. But yeah... there's a good list of guys I'd prefer over Jones and Castille, but wonder what the price tag would be.

Hell, I'm not sure the Bengals don't need a starter. I put the over/under at 5 for the number of practices before J-Joe f**ks up his foot again. Chinny can't stay off the injury report, either. And newb Morgan Trent just became the season's first ding at last weekend's minicamp, fracturing his foot, which will reportedly sideline him until August. And I believe that White is still rehabbing from surgery.

Basically that leaves us with Hall, Crocker and a s**t load of backups/special teamers/practice squad fodder.

As to the price tag...that tends to start falling about this time of year. Even if it took a little extra, at last report the Bengals still have in the neighborhood of $6-7 million in cap space, even subtracting out the rookie pool and injury reserve.

[TJJackson]

A 4-win team should be reviewing every name on every official release to see if the player can help, regardless of the position

Of course, we all know they aren't, but they should be doing so.

That said, yeah, CB (and I'll add OL) should be an area where there should be extra attention paid when reviewing players released throughout the NFL

[Bearcat1975]

I guess this is why many of us were so happy with the draft. All our major concerns were dealt with.

OK I'll leave the above comment alone and respond to the initial question.

I believe the Bengals still need a vet center and a true blocking fullback.

I also think our defense is young and hungry, but not very deep. If the Bengals catch their yearly injury bug and it lands on defense, they are in trouble. Same could be said of the oline too.

Basically, I don't think at this point that they can improve upon their starters with what is left in free agency. But when you get down to 2nd and 3rd string, they start to look more like practice squad material rather than NFL backups. Here, and on special teams, are where improvements can be made through free agency, in my not-so-humble opinion.

[derekshank]

Just saw on ESPN that JClayton seems to think that RWilliams will be in Cincy or nowhere at all, he says that teams are going with smaller S who can interchange on D and that there is not a market for a big physical S like RWilliams right now...

Interesting tid bit. Marvin Lewis was one of the first to preach that interchangeable safety. Funny that the Bengals are now one of the only teams interested in the old style SS.

The problem with any of these guys would be if they would only come expecting to be starters... when they would likely be playing in the nickle. But yeah... there's a good list of guys I'd prefer over Jones and Castille, but wonder what the price tag would be.

Hell, I'm not sure the Bengals don't need a starter. I put the over/under at 5 for the number of practices before J-Joe f**ks up his foot again. Chinny can't stay off the injury report, either. And newb Morgan Trent just became the season's first ding at last weekend's minicamp, fracturing his foot, which will reportedly sideline him until August. And I believe that White is still rehabbing from surgery.

Basically that leaves us with Hall, Crocker and a s**t load of backups/special teamers/practice squad fodder.

As to the price tag...that tends to start falling about this time of year. Even if it took a little extra, at last report the Bengals still have in the neighborhood of $6-7 million in cap space, even subtracting out the rookie pool and injury reserve.

What's the deal with all the Bengals CB's breaking their feet? Do they have a practice drill that involves placing your foot in traffic? I don't get it.

Anyway... yeah. I agree with you. But I still think the cap will be the issue if they want to think about bringing in a player like McAllister AND Roy Williams. My guess is it will be one or the other (or neither). And for right now, I don't think I can decide which one I want more. I'll just be happy that they bring someone in to make this team better. Further evidence of effort.

[derekshank]

I guess this is why many of us were so happy with the draft. All our major concerns were dealt with.

OK I'll leave the above comment alone and respond to the initial question.

No. Please... go on. I want to hear your problem with my statement.

I didn't say the Bengals had suddenly made themselves into a playoff team. I said they dealt will all their major holes in the depth chart. C, OT, DE, LB, RB, FB. Even a Punter. Any other major glaring weaknesses that we wanted addressed that they didn't address on draft day? Nope? Okay then. Moving on...

It's unlikely that a team relying on so many rookies will suddenly become Super Bowl champs... but going into the draft, these were the positions we agreed needed addressed. They did that, and did a much better job than many of us could have dreamed. So you can take your little confused smiley face and... well - I'll keep it civil.

[Bearcat1975]

I guess this is why many of us were so happy with the draft. All our major concerns were dealt with.

OK I'll leave the above comment alone and respond to the initial question.

No. Please... go on. I want to hear your problem with my statement.

No point in beating a dead horse. My sig answers it pretty well and saves me some typing too.

[ArmyBengal]

I think there is a difference in saying the team addressed many, if not all, of their glaring holes through the draft, as opposed to those draft picks solving all the problems this team faces. It's the same reason I say, I love what the team did during the draft, but with all the "hope" surrounding those players, I expect an 8-8 effort out of this team.

[HairOnFire]

No point in beating a dead horse. My sig answers it pretty well and saves me some typing too.

Oh, now I get it.

You were finally able to write your own sig, after using a lame Paul Daugherty rant for months, and now you want everyone to notice.

Well, good for you.

[Bearcat1975]

No point in beating a dead horse. My sig answers it pretty well and saves me some typing too.

Oh, now I get it.

You were finally able to write your own sig, after using a lame Paul Daugherty rant for months, and now you want everyone to notice.

Well, good for you.

[HairOnFire]

And newb Morgan Trent just became the season's first ding at last weekend's minicamp, fracturing his foot, which will reportedly sideline him until August.

Perfect. After watching David Jones until I want to claw out my own eys I scream and scream for an upgrade at nickleback....and all I get is a track guy with no instincts who gets hurt immediately.

Yeah, I still want a CB.

[Kazkal]

Isn't Tory James available

[HoosierCat]

Timely piece by Lenny P. on some of the FAs left on the market:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=4140590

[derekshank]

I guess this is why many of us were so happy with the draft. All our major concerns were dealt with.

OK I'll leave the above comment alone and respond to the initial question.

No. Please... go on. I want to hear your problem with my statement.

No point in beating a dead horse. My sig answers it pretty well and saves me some typing too.

Whatever dude. I haven't said the Bengals were a playoff team since '06. I'm certainly not saying it now. All I said was that the Bengals addressed all their major needs through the draft. It can't be denied.

Does that make the team a lot better? That remains to be seen. I tend to think they'll be significantly better than a 4 win team - but it will still be a couple years before they start truly reaping the benefits of this draft. Afterall... they are rookies.

[Kazkal]

Whatever dude. I haven't said the Bengals were a playoff team since '06. I'm certainly not saying it now. All I said was that the Bengals addressed all their major needs through the draft. It can't be denied.

No one thought you did,Bear's just trying to find reasons to post his stupid pictures that he saw someone else post on another forum.

[HairOnFire]

Timely piece by Lenny P. on some of the FAs left on the market:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=4140590

Perhaps the time is finally right for GM Mike Brown to sign FS Mike Brown. Then, after overpaying him for a month or so he could cut him......thereby meeting one of WhoDeyRevolution's principle demands.

[Bearcat1975]

I guess this is why many of us were so happy with the draft. All our major concerns were dealt with.

OK I'll leave the above comment alone and respond to the initial question.

No. Please... go on. I want to hear your problem with my statement.

No point in beating a dead horse. My sig answers it pretty well and saves me some typing too.

Whatever dude. I haven't said the Bengals were a playoff team since '06. I'm certainly not saying it now. All I said was that the Bengals addressed all their major needs through the draft. It can't be denied.

Does that make the team a lot better? That remains to be seen. I tend to think they'll be significantly better than a 4 win team - but it will still be a couple years before they start truly reaping the benefits of this draft. Afterall... they are rookies.

Woah dude, way to go out on a limb...

I agree with you that even if this was as good of a draft as we all think it was, it will be years before the Bengals reap the benefits. But my point is, we as Bengals fans are so used to hanging our hopes on the new draft class, that many of us don't realize that teams are actually supposed to draft for depth, not for saviors.

To ignore potential difference makers in free agency, and then hope all the problems can be solved in the draft creates a cycle of losing we as Bengals fans are all too familiar with. This creates a scenario where even when they get a good draft class, the young players don't have enough vets to mentor them or a proven winning system in place to guide them.

So they either walk, get that deer in the headlights auto-pilot look, or they turn into "cancers." Hanging around just long enough to spoil the new class and keep the cycle going. Just sub Chad Johnson for Corey Dillon for Takeo Spikes for Carl Pickens for Lee Johnson, and you just built yourself a Cincinnati Bengals Groundhog Day Time Machine.

With no plans for change in procedure from the front office by the way.

[chrishcovga]

There's only one free agent out there that interests me and that's Dre' Bly. I always thought it was a mistake not to draft him back in the '99 draft, but then again, How many mistakes did we make in that draft anyways ?? Huh ?? HUH ??

But with his declining speed, he still has very good coverage skills if he's kicked inside to the slot, he could prove very valuable because of his ability to play the ball. Plus with Johnathan Josephs' sooner or later injury, he'd be a decent starter fill in until he returns.

[derekshank]

But my point is, we as Bengals fans are so used to hanging our hopes on the new draft class, that many of us don't realize that teams are actually supposed to draft for depth, not for saviors.

This is something we will never agree on. The closest we'll come is agreeing that too often fans want a rookie to turn a basement team into a Super Bowl contender. That's crazy expectations for a rookie. But where we part ways is what you think the draft is for. Teams that are perennial contenders draft very well. They get the majority of their star power from the first couple rounds of drafts, and turn the later round picks into important role players.

Teams that play the free agent market year after year rarely do anything but look good in the offseason (ie Washington and Cleveland).

Teams that use free agency to add depth and fill particular roles and build through the draft effectively are very successful (ie Pittsburgh, Philliy, and Indy).

One team is able to turn another teams castoffs into pro bowlers while also building talent through the draft (New England)

Most teams are pretty hit and miss both through the draft and free agency, attempting to use both to gets wins as well as headlines. The Bengals happen to miss more than they hit. The reasons for this are many - but that doesn't change the fact that the most successful teams in the NFL use the draft as their primary means for acquiring talent.