Whispers — league wrap-up

[Ox]

The way we hear it, the Bengals are probably out of the mix when it comes to adding any more high-priced free agents following the signing of WR Laveranues Coles. A source close to the club suggests the team could have interest in bringing back DT John Thornton and C Eric Ghiaciuc.

The Bengals’ signing of 49ers UFA QB J.T. O’Sullivan was motivated not only by the need for a backup for Carson Palmer but also because O’Sullivan was a budget-friendly replacement for the departed Ryan Fitzpatrick, we’re told.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...rapup030809.htm

[Kazkal]

For the love of god Mikey don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[HairOnFire]

On his blog John Thornton confirmed rumors he had been contacted by the Bengals recently and was formally offered a new contract....presumbly to return in a backup role. Thornton said he was considering the offer, but would likely wait to see if he can find a starting role for a team using a 3-4 scheme.

[derekshank]

For the love of god Mikey don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I don't see what the problem would be. He would be a back-up, meaning he would likely be paid as such. He's a veteran, and a high character guy... and most importantly played very well for this team as a DE when injuries required him to do so.

[Bearcat1975]

On his blog John Thornton confirmed rumors he had been contacted by the Bengals recently and was formally offered a new contract....presumbly to return in a backup role. Thornton said he was considering the offer, but would likely wait to see if he can find a starting role for a team using a 3-4 scheme.

Translation: If anyone else calls, he is out. But the phone won't ring of course. So he will take the Bengals check. Being a company man here all these years will likely be a million dollar difference for JT. More power to him.

[BengalPimp]

I wouldn't necessarily mind if they were both signed on the cheap. They're both back-up quality players, and worst case scenario, if they need the roster spots, and are able to get replacements through the draft, release them, and they wont take that big of a cap hit. I guess they're better than nothing....maybe not much better, but.................

[HairOnFire]

On his blog John Thornton confirmed rumors he had been contacted by the Bengals recently and was formally offered a new contract....presumbly to return in a backup role. Thornton said he was considering the offer, but would likely wait to see if he can find a starting role for a team using a 3-4 scheme.

Translation: If anyone else calls, he is out. But the phone won't ring of course. So he will take the Bengals check. Being a company man here all these years will likely be a million dollar difference for JT. More power to him.

I didn't think a translation was needed, and now that you've offered one.....I'm not sure you nailed it. Thornton has spoken on numerous occasions about how he feels his best role/position is as a 290 lb LDE, rather thanlining up as one of the lightest DT's in the NFL.

[derekshank]

On his blog John Thornton confirmed rumors he had been contacted by the Bengals recently and was formally offered a new contract....presumbly to return in a backup role. Thornton said he was considering the offer, but would likely wait to see if he can find a starting role for a team using a 3-4 scheme.

Translation: If anyone else calls, he is out. But the phone won't ring of course. So he will take the Bengals check. Being a company man here all these years will likely be a million dollar difference for JT. More power to him.

I didn't think a translation was needed, and now that you've offered one.....I'm not sure you nailed it. Thornton has spoken on numerous occasions about how he feels his best role/position is as a 290 lb LDE, rather thanlining up as one of the lightest DT's in the NFL.

And he's probably right. He played his best football since he came to Cincy last year as a DE. Interesting.

Perhaps rather than a backup DT, he could be the DE we all want that can keep Geathers fresh for passing downs. But I highly doubt that's the plan.

[HAPPYJAQ]

On his blog John Thornton confirmed rumors he had been contacted by the Bengals recently and was formally offered a new contract....presumbly to return in a backup role. Thornton said he was considering the offer, but would likely wait to see if he can find a starting role for a team using a 3-4 scheme.

Translation: If anyone else calls, he is out. But the phone won't ring of course. So he will take the Bengals check. Being a company man here all these years will likely be a million dollar difference for JT. More power to him.

I didn't think a translation was needed, and now that you've offered one.....I'm not sure you nailed it. Thornton has spoken on numerous occasions about how he feels his best role/position is as a 290 lb LDE, rather thanlining up as one of the lightest DT's in the NFL.

And he's probably right. He played his best football since he came to Cincy last year as a DE. Interesting.

Perhaps rather than a backup DT, he could be the DE we all want that can keep Geathers fresh for passing downs. But I highly doubt that's the plan.

So he would be in a dogfight with Orien Harris and maybe Jon Fanene for the last spot, it would seem. Honestly, I like Thornton at DE and we could be pretty stout on running downs with Thornton and Rucker at DE.

Keep Odom and Geathers fresh and it's like adding another pash rusher in the draft, although I'm not sure if the Bengals would want to have two of there highest-paid defenders being used as situational players.

[Kazkal]

My fear of resigning guycheck is they may not feel it's as important to draft a center :|

PS,I don't care about resigning JT having a veteran for the 4th DT spot since we have youth in the other 3 spots.

[derekshank]

I'm not sure if the Bengals would want to have two of there highest-paid defenders being used as situational players.

Sure... but this comes down to the philosophy the Bengals use when it comes to the DE position. If they were willing to spend money on production as opposed to playing time, I think you'd have a much better team.

Geathers had 10.5 sacks in '06. How many games did he start that year? Zero. He was strictly a situational pass rusher. He got his pay day because of his production, but because of the coin invested, his role changed. He is now an every down lineman, and has had a total of 6 sacks since.

They probably thought "Wow. He got double digit sacks in limited duty? Just think what he can do as a starter!" But surprise, surprise, it turns out that the 4th round pick didn't turn out to be the second coming of Julius Peppers. Instead, he is Robert Mathis.

I use Mathis as an argument because he is a DE who comes in situationally, gets good production in that role, and gets paid well for that limited role. He is not asked to do things he doesn't do well. If the Bengals were willing to use Thornton and Rucker more, and bring in Geathers on passing downs I think the pass rush would be much better. But his paycheck is too much to have him sit on the bench. So they sacrifice the skill set he has by attempting to make him something he is not. They force a square peg in a round hole because it makes financial sense.

This is the biggest gripe I have with the Bengals. Not that they are cheap, but that they continually spend money on playing time rather than production.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I'm not sure if the Bengals would want to have two of there highest-paid defenders being used as situational players.

Sure... but this comes down to the philosophy the Bengals use when it comes to the DE position. If they were willing to spend money on production as opposed to playing time, I think you'd have a much better team.

Geathers had 10.5 sacks in '06. How many games did he start that year? Zero. He was strictly a situational pass rusher. He got his pay day because of his production, but because of the coin invested, his role changed. He is now an every down lineman, and has had a total of 6 sacks since that time.

They probably thought "Wow. He got double digit sacks in limited duty? Just think what he can do as a starter!" But surprise, surprise, it turns out that the 4th round pick didn't turn out to be the second coming of Julius Peppers. Instead, he is Robert Mathis.

I use Mathis as an argument because he is a DE who comes in situationally, gets good production in that role, and gets paid well for that limited role. He is not asked to do things he doesn't do well. If the Bengals were willing to use Thornton and Rucker more, and bring in Geathers on passing downs I think the pass rush would be much better. But his paycheck is too much to have him sit on the bench. So they sacrifice the skill set he has by attempting to make him something he is not. They force a square peg in a round hole because it makes financial sense.

This is the biggest gripe I have with the Bengals. Not that they are cheap, but that they continually spend money on playing time rather than production.

I agree.

Both Odom and Geathers have had their best seasons as situational guys. Imagine how good they could potentially be if they played 20-25 snaps a game instead of 60-75. For years, one of our major problems has been getting off the field on 3rd down and especially 3rd and medium/long. Surprising, recently we have been better on 3rd and short than the other 3rd down scenarios.

Here's my other thing; If you think that Odom or Geathers can give you a combined 16+ sacks on limited downs, you no longer need to draft a pash rusher, who is only going to play situationally (at best) this season and probably account for a larger chunk of the salary cap than either Geathers or Odom.

I never understood NFL economics, because a player who is productive on fewer downs played is more important than a player with less production on more downs. Kevin Faulk in New England has made a career out of just that, as have many other players on better teams throghout the league. I guess everybody really does want more bang for their buck.

[HoTbOy]

I wouldn't mind JThorton as a backup DE, was part of the reason the D finished the way they did down the stretch...I don't want to see the matador (EGhiaciuc), I would hate to see CPalmer get hurt again...

[derekshank]

I wouldn't mind JThorton as a backup DE, was part of the reason the D finished they they did down the stretch...I don't want to see the matador (EGhiaciuc), I would hate to see CPalmer get hurt again...

Thornton could easily fit the DE role that Bryan Robinson did in '06 when Geathers had his big year. In fact, I think Thornton would be better at it. He has years left, he's just not a true starting DT. He's probably right that he's a 3-4 DE... but so was Robinson. It saves money and gives more production to get a pass rush this way. But like I said earlier... that's probably not the plan.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Didn't B-Rob just start in the Super Bowl for the Cardinals? How did Kimo do when he left? Kelly Gregg has had a very good career in Baltimore.

To me, it all starts with the D-line caoch and Hayes must go.

[BlainThePain]

Didn't B-Rob just start in the Super Bowl for the Cardinals? How did Kimo do when he left? Kelly Gregg has had a very good career in Baltimore.

To me, it all starts with the D-line caoch and Hayes must go.

You point out two guys in Kimo and Gregg that weren't even on the roster when Hayes became a coach with the Bengals, and the other guy you point out was a journeyman DT that didn't get to the Bengals until his Thirties. I don't understand your logic.

On the other hand he took three mid-round picks in Peko, Sims, and Geathers and turned them into starters. Those three were a big reason the D was what it was last season, and Peko, Sims, and Geathers would start on a lot of NFL teams.

[Kazkal]

I'm not sure if the Bengals would want to have two of there highest-paid defenders being used as situational players.

Sure... but this comes down to the philosophy the Bengals use when it comes to the DE position. If they were willing to spend money on production as opposed to playing time, I think you'd have a much better team.

Geathers had 10.5 sacks in '06. How many games did he start that year? Zero. He was strictly a situational pass rusher. He got his pay day because of his production, but because of the coin invested, his role changed. He is now an every down lineman, and has had a total of 6 sacks since.

They probably thought "Wow. He got double digit sacks in limited duty? Just think what he can do as a starter!" But surprise, surprise, it turns out that the 4th round pick didn't turn out to be the second coming of Julius Peppers. Instead, he is Robert Mathis.

I use Mathis as an argument because he is a DE who comes in situationally, gets good production in that role, and gets paid well for that limited role. He is not asked to do things he doesn't do well. If the Bengals were willing to use Thornton and Rucker more, and bring in Geathers on passing downs I think the pass rush would be much better. But his paycheck is too much to have him sit on the bench. So they sacrifice the skill set he has by attempting to make him something he is not. They force a square peg in a round hole because it makes financial sense.

This is the biggest gripe I have with the Bengals. Not that they are cheap, but that they continually spend money on playing time rather than production.

Reason why wanted Orakpo let him be 3downs..Odom on running downs geathers on passing

To me, it all starts with the D-line caoch and Hayes must go.

Hayes hasn't been given shet to work with till recently...

Didn't B-Rob just start in the Super Bowl for the Cardinals? How did Kimo do when he left? Kelly Gregg has had a very good career in Baltimore.

The Cardinals defense wasn't very stellar....

[HairOnFire]

Here's my other thing; If you think that Odom or Geathers can give you a combined 16+ sacks on limited downs, you no longer need to draft a pash rusher, who is only going to play situationally (at best) this season and probably account for a larger chunk of the salary cap than either Geathers or Odom.

I think the exact opposite is true. Reducing the number of snaps a starter has to play opens up opportunities for other players, right? But are you satisfied with the current level of talent? And even if you answer yes, are you willingly to settle for having just one of everything? Isn't that risking everything on a perfect world strategy?

Adding a rookie fits neatly into the same argument about reduced snaps sometimes resulting in greater production. For example, everytime I mention the name Orakpo someone quickly mentions Odom and Geathers. And when someone else mentions BJ Raji the first thing heard in response is Sims, followed quickly by Peko.

Now put yourself in the shoes of a New York Giant fan. Did you wake up today second quessing the way that team's defense is built? Do you question the way that teams most important defensive positions all seem to be filled three deep?

Just saying.

[whizzo]

yes but can we afford to spend draft picks on adding depth to our D when our OL can't keep our QB in one piece?

[HairOnFire]

yes but can we afford to spend draft picks on adding depth to our D when our OL can't keep our QB in one piece?

If what you have isn't enough to get the job done, and playing fewer snaps might increase the productivity of current starters, are you still talking about depth?

Look, the rant isn't new. I've used it time and time again when questioning the wisdom of using Justin Smith on roughly 98% of defensive snaps year after year. And for as long as I've known him Hoosier has spent every draft pimping whatever prospect can give him the DT rotation he dreams of.

[markymark69]

Thornton I wouldn't mind. He'd be a back-up and a good locker room presence. Not interested in Ghiaciuc.

[BengalszoneBilly]

For the love of god Mikey don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Sadly I think he will.

[Baraka]

Here's my other thing; If you think that Odom or Geathers can give you a combined 16+ sacks on limited downs, you no longer need to draft a pash rusher, who is only going to play situationally (at best) this season and probably account for a larger chunk of the salary cap than either Geathers or Odom.

I think the exact opposite is true. Reducing the number of snaps a starter has to play opens up opportunities for other players, right? But are you satisfied with the current level of talent? And even if you answer yes, are you willingly to settle for having just one of everything? Isn't that risking everything on a perfect world strategy?

Adding a rookie fits neatly into the same argument about reduced snaps sometimes resulting in greater production. For example, everytime I mention the name Orakpo someone quickly mentions Odom and Geathers. And when someone else mentions BJ Raji the first thing heard in response is Sims, followed quickly by Peko.

Now put yourself in the shoes of a New York Giant fan. Did you wake up today second quessing the way that team's defense is built? Do you question the way that teams most important defensive positions all seem to be filled three deep?

Just saying.

so you would like either orakpo or raji at #6? and if so are you conceding that the big contracts given to the two "pass rush specialists" was mis-spent?

either way i see your argument about depth. if put under the gun i most assuredly take raji over orakpo, and the way this seems to be playing out the bengals may not have a choice.

[Kazkal]

Orakpo for sure and the money wouldn't be mispent if you use the players properly....

Odom was pulled off on passing downs for the titans...Geathers played bast when he was a passrush specialist so you start Orakpo...use odom on running downs and geathers on passing.

[Whur CHad At?]

Kill me now