Thurmanation Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I'm not sure why the "Marvin talkin' 3-4" thread was closed. No verbal combat. No feces throwing either. So I'm moving a piece of the rant here. From Memphis... "You may be right about Benson being the best option in free agency (now that Sproles is out of reach). And you may be right about the other part, whether he would return here or not. But I still bet that the dollars to get him will end up being less than a franchise tag. Whether it is Cincy or some other team." It's not easy defending a move that all but guaranteed grossly overpaying, but here it is nutshelled. I advocated overpaying for Benson, a top FA who plays a position of great need, for the same reasons someone might argue in favor of overpaying for another teams FA talent. You have to overpay or the talent goes eleswhere without giving a backwater team like Cincy a chance to bid. And while Benson isn't an outsider...he's not really a Bengal either. He has few ties here and even fewer reasons to show any loyalty. But there's also another reason for overpaying and it comes up next. More Memphis... "I guess the question then is whether the Bengals should have franchised him. I would not have, but, hey, I've been wrong plenty in the past. If he ends up leaving and the team does not replace him through FA or the draft and the running game suffers again, I will def be on the wrong side of this." If Benson moves on the Bengals WILL replace him, and probably for less money. That's a given. But again, it's only money. Saving a little cash whenever you can always makes perfect sense...unless the bigger question asks how you get better, not what makes the most financial sense. And that brings me back to why I was so willing to overpay. Because doing so not only keeps one of the highest ranked FA's in the fold but also allows the Bengals to use at least one of it's higher draft picks on another position. Thus, tagging Benson would have kept him in stripes, filled a critical need, and here's the rub......would have bought the Bengals more options on draft day. Didn't happen though. And that's fine I guess. Let's see if the Bengals plan works out better than the one I reluctantly championed. But for me it was never a matter of paying Benson only what he could command in the free market or finding another RB for less money. It was all about keeping Benson off the market, guaranteeing a position of critical need was adequately filled, and keeping a high draft pick available for other needs. Furthermore, I actually embraced the idea of signing Benson to another 1-year "prove it" styled contract. For all of that I was willing to overpay.Very good post.To kinda piggyback here, I do belive the Bengals should have Franchised Ced for a few reasons. At 26 and few NFL carries (I know what he did at Texas), it's like having an extra 1st or 2nd round pick in the fold. He is familiar with the offense and seemingly comfortable with the team and coaching staff and even more important, he's looked at as the backbone of the new run-oriented offense, according to what Marvin says he wants to be. Sure, you overpay but if he gets you 1200 rushing yards and 8-10 TD's, it's worth every cent. The greater consideration is that there are no other backs available either through the draft or free agency that offer you the same type of running back skill set and package and though some may argue Wells, Andre Brown or others, those guys are considerably larger question marks than Ced. If the Bengals don't resign Cedric Benson, I hope they trade down because we'll need to get a running back some where in the first 2 rounds.Agree with you both. There are no RB's in FA or the draft that can bring to the table what Benson can(And he was a 4th overall pick once). We have no RB now, and will have to pay up to keep him away from teams like BU and NE who will be looking to grab a second back/any back that can be a number 1. Atleast if we had franchised him we could have gotten a first round pick if anyone was going to pony up. In reality though i think Marvin thinks Benson wants to stay in stripes. There may be something brewing that we don't know about. I mean Fred Taylor and Deuce McAlister are both available now too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAPPYJAQ Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I'm not sure why the "Marvin talkin' 3-4" thread was closed. No verbal combat. No feces throwing either. So I'm moving a piece of the rant here. From Memphis... "You may be right about Benson being the best option in free agency (now that Sproles is out of reach). And you may be right about the other part, whether he would return here or not. But I still bet that the dollars to get him will end up being less than a franchise tag. Whether it is Cincy or some other team." It's not easy defending a move that all but guaranteed grossly overpaying, but here it is nutshelled. I advocated overpaying for Benson, a top FA who plays a position of great need, for the same reasons someone might argue in favor of overpaying for another teams FA talent. You have to overpay or the talent goes eleswhere without giving a backwater team like Cincy a chance to bid. And while Benson isn't an outsider...he's not really a Bengal either. He has few ties here and even fewer reasons to show any loyalty. But there's also another reason for overpaying and it comes up next. More Memphis... "I guess the question then is whether the Bengals should have franchised him. I would not have, but, hey, I've been wrong plenty in the past. If he ends up leaving and the team does not replace him through FA or the draft and the running game suffers again, I will def be on the wrong side of this." If Benson moves on the Bengals WILL replace him, and probably for less money. That's a given. But again, it's only money. Saving a little cash whenever you can always makes perfect sense...unless the bigger question asks how you get better, not what makes the most financial sense. And that brings me back to why I was so willing to overpay. Because doing so not only keeps one of the highest ranked FA's in the fold but also allows the Bengals to use at least one of it's higher draft picks on another position. Thus, tagging Benson would have kept him in stripes, filled a critical need, and here's the rub......would have bought the Bengals more options on draft day. Didn't happen though. And that's fine I guess. Let's see if the Bengals plan works out better than the one I reluctantly championed. But for me it was never a matter of paying Benson only what he could command in the free market or finding another RB for less money. It was all about keeping Benson off the market, guaranteeing a position of critical need was adequately filled, and keeping a high draft pick available for other needs. Furthermore, I actually embraced the idea of signing Benson to another 1-year "prove it" styled contract. For all of that I was willing to overpay.Very good post.To kinda piggyback here, I do belive the Bengals should have Franchised Ced for a few reasons. At 26 and few NFL carries (I know what he did at Texas), it's like having an extra 1st or 2nd round pick in the fold. He is familiar with the offense and seemingly comfortable with the team and coaching staff and even more important, he's looked at as the backbone of the new run-oriented offense, according to what Marvin says he wants to be. Sure, you overpay but if he gets you 1200 rushing yards and 8-10 TD's, it's worth every cent. The greater consideration is that there are no other backs available either through the draft or free agency that offer you the same type of running back skill set and package and though some may argue Wells, Andre Brown or others, those guys are considerably larger question marks than Ced. If the Bengals don't resign Cedric Benson, I hope they trade down because we'll need to get a running back some where in the first 2 rounds.Agree with you both. There are no RB's in FA or the draft that can bring to the table what Benson can(And he was a 4th overall pick once). We have no RB now, and will have to pay up to keep him away from teams like BU and NE who will be looking to grab a second back/any back that can be a number 1. Atleast if we had franchised him we could have gotten a first round pick if anyone was going to pony up. In reality though i think Marvin thinks Benson wants to stay in stripes. There may be something brewing that we don't know about. I mean Fred Taylor and Deuce McAlister are both available now too.It looks like Fred Taylor will be looking for Buffalo to offer him a nice multi-year deal or he's going to New England. Those are the visits that are scheduled for him and he's sure to sign early, before the money dries up this weekend. The smart money's on him to go after a ring with the Patriots and that team might be scary offensively with him in the fold. Good news for the Bengals, nonetheless. Another question is would the Bengals have any interest in Derrick Ward at age 29? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoTbOy Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It just amazes me how we the everyday fan see the importance of resigning CBenson, and how it frees up options to do other things in FA and the draft, but the powers that be can't/don't...Especially seeing how they are talking about being a running team, but we hear that every year...While I wasn't a big RJohnson fan and was glad to see him go, I thought he lost some pop in his running, but the answer is not CPerry, he is better as a 3rd down out of the backfield option... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I'm not sure why the "Marvin talkin' 3-4" thread was closed. No verbal combat. No feces throwing either. So I'm moving a piece of the rant here. From Memphis... "You may be right about Benson being the best option in free agency (now that Sproles is out of reach). And you may be right about the other part, whether he would return here or not. But I still bet that the dollars to get him will end up being less than a franchise tag. Whether it is Cincy or some other team." It's not easy defending a move that all but guaranteed grossly overpaying, but here it is nutshelled. I advocated overpaying for Benson, a top FA who plays a position of great need, for the same reasons someone might argue in favor of overpaying for another teams FA talent. You have to overpay or the talent goes eleswhere without giving a backwater team like Cincy a chance to bid. And while Benson isn't an outsider...he's not really a Bengal either. He has few ties here and even fewer reasons to show any loyalty. But there's also another reason for overpaying and it comes up next. More Memphis... "I guess the question then is whether the Bengals should have franchised him. I would not have, but, hey, I've been wrong plenty in the past. If he ends up leaving and the team does not replace him through FA or the draft and the running game suffers again, I will def be on the wrong side of this." If Benson moves on the Bengals WILL replace him, and probably for less money. That's a given. But again, it's only money. Saving a little cash whenever you can always makes perfect sense...unless the bigger question asks how you get better, not what makes the most financial sense. And that brings me back to why I was so willing to overpay. Because doing so not only keeps one of the highest ranked FA's in the fold but also allows the Bengals to use at least one of it's higher draft picks on another position. Thus, tagging Benson would have kept him in stripes, filled a critical need, and here's the rub......would have bought the Bengals more options on draft day. Didn't happen though. And that's fine I guess. Let's see if the Bengals plan works out better than the one I reluctantly championed. But for me it was never a matter of paying Benson only what he could command in the free market or finding another RB for less money. It was all about keeping Benson off the market, guaranteeing a position of critical need was adequately filled, and keeping a high draft pick available for other needs. Furthermore, I actually embraced the idea of signing Benson to another 1-year "prove it" styled contract. For all of that I was willing to overpay.Yeah, I was puzzled why it was closed as well. Perhaps it was the reasoned discussion that was upsetting to the mods.You make good points, and I understand why you come down on that side. I am perhaps persuaded that you have the better of this. I guess, since the Bengals have opted toward my view and let it roll to free agency with him, we shall see if I was right or not. What I do fear is what you laid out, that Benson leaves, and they have to backfill somewhere and that it does impact the draft. I would not like that. My concern with Benson, setting aside last summer's issues, is whether he is reliable enough for the team to hang its hat on. I don't have any reason, I guess, to think he isn't, but still, it's there. A 1-year "prove it" style contract would have been my preference as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAPPYJAQ Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Assuming he doesn't come back, are there any FA's outside of Benson you'd be comfortable with? I shiver thinking of Kevin Jones or Tatum Bell as the featured back next season. I think I'd take back Rudi over those guys.That said, if Ced isn't signed, I wholeheartedly expect them to draft a running back with that first pick. The Bengals have given up on Perry, while DeDe and Kenny look like they could be on the way out, too. That leaves only James Johnson, who doesnt look like a featured back to me, right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet23 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 According to Cincinnati Bird Cage Liner, TJ is #1 on the Giants FA want list. He is close to discovering what he is worth on the open market. Since his opinion of his value and his actual value are never going to match up, the Bengals still have a chance. However, it's not looking good for those of us that still want him in stripes next year. By his recent statements, it appears to me that he will take less money to get out of Dodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 According to Cincinnati Bird Cage Liner, TJ is #1 on the Giants FA want list. He is close to discovering what he is worth on the open market. Since his opinion of his value and his actual value are never going to match up, the Bengals still have a chance. However, it's not looking good for those of us that still want him in stripes next year. By his recent statements, it appears to me that he will take less money to get out of Dodge.I doubt whatever deal TJ gets will be perceived as "taking less money to get out of Dodge". He will definitely make a splash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yeah, I was puzzled why it was closed as well. Perhaps it was the reasoned discussion that was upsetting to the mods.I gave the explanation earlier and said sorry. Hope the extra mouse clicks didn't keep you to preoccupied !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baraka Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 with jacobs signing a 4 year $25 million deal it sets the market for benson. what do you guys think? 3 year 10 million for benson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 with jacobs signing a 4 year $25 million deal it sets the market for benson. what do you guys think? 3 year 10 million for benson?I wish. I'm pretty sure Benson would be looking for something more comparable -- especially when Jacobs' deal is being called a "joke"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 How the hell Jacobs took that deal is beyond me. If that is the market, getting Benson shouldn't be that difficult. Thing is, there are many teams that will be looking at Benson and thinking the same thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baraka Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 How the hell Jacobs took that deal is beyond me. If that is the market, getting Benson shouldn't be that difficult. Thing is, there are many teams that will be looking at Benson and thinking the same thing...the markets the market, if benson thinks he's getting anything close to that he'll be on the street again. it might be a joke or it might be a player not wanting to hamstring his team, i applaud jacobs for this, 15 million over two years is enough for his family to live well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baraka Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 looks like the running back market got smaller quick.http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9270512...ree-agency-blogand brown's got a visit *hint* it's in the mid-west Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 How the hell Jacobs took that deal is beyond me. If that is the market, getting Benson shouldn't be that difficult. Thing is, there are many teams that will be looking at Benson and thinking the same thing...the markets the market, if benson thinks he's getting anything close to that he'll be on the street again. it might be a joke or it might be a player not wanting to hamstring his team, i applaud jacobs for this, 15 million over two years is enough for his family to live well.It might be more than enough for his family, but in this business, the contract he signed for his level of talent was a joke. He's way underpaid for what he does. I would bet a large amount of money that he will want more at the end of this season, especially if the Giants do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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