Graham Tagged

[Jet23]

First, a back-up lineman (Andrews) was tagged last year, now a kicker. Are any of these positions,” Franchise Positions?”

Does Bengals ownership have a clue how to run an NFL Team?

Graham might be the most accurate kicker in Bengals history, but he has shown that he can't make a field goal in the clutch (See 06' Pittsburgh and 08' Eagles games).

What team has actually put a Franchise Tag on their kicker? Does anyone know?

the patriots tagged vinatieri TWICE, i'd say they're a pretty good organization

Yes, you are correct. The Patriots did indeed tag the most clutch kicker in the history of the NFL. The Bengals tagged the latest guy that they had no idea how to sign.

And yet another great player talks his way out of town, because he is tired of the losing culture created and maintained by the WORST OWNER IN THE HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

I do agree with you that Mike is a horrible owner, but TJ is leaving because he is old and replaceable. You think if he was 26 he would be leaving? I DONT THINK SO. He is going to be 32 which is older for a possession receiver and way to old for a guy that wants 9 mil a year.

No doubt that TJ is on the back nine, but they are rolling the dice that a) the young receivers are going to be ready, and Princess Chad doesn't implode. They just better figure out what a TE is in a hurry...

[Pidge]

They just better figure out what a TE is in a hurry...

Don't hold your breath on that one. The good news is that they now have no idea what a FB is either anymore.

[Clackwoods]

First, a back-up lineman (Andrews) was tagged last year, now a kicker. Are any of these positions,” Franchise Positions?”

Does Bengals ownership have a clue how to run an NFL Team?

Graham might be the most accurate kicker in Bengals history, but he has shown that he can't make a field goal in the clutch (See 06' Pittsburgh and 08' Eagles games).

What team has actually put a Franchise Tag on their kicker? Does anyone know?

the patriots tagged vinatieri TWICE, i'd say they're a pretty good organization

Yes, you are correct. The Patriots did indeed tag the most clutch kicker in the history of the NFL. The Bengals tagged the latest guy that they had no idea how to sign.

And yet another great player talks his way out of town, because he is tired of the losing culture created and maintained by the WORST OWNER IN THE HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

I do agree with you that Mike is a horrible owner, but TJ is leaving because he is old and replaceable. You think if he was 26 he would be leaving? I DONT THINK SO. He is going to be 32 which is older for a possession receiver and way to old for a guy that wants 9 mil a year.

No doubt that TJ is on the back nine, but they are rolling the dice that a) the young receivers are going to be ready, and Princess Chad doesn't implode. They just better figure out what a TE is in a hurry...

Honestly I think Utech will rebound this year when he is injury free and Carson is healed. If Chad does implode they will just take a first round WR and I am sure that they saw enough out their for them to replace TJ. I am pretty sure that Mike Furrey had a similiar season to what TJ did (Numbers and types of catches wise) and he was given his walking papers. We could always sign him to replace TJ.

[sparky151]

This was a terrible decision. I'm not opposed to re-signing Graham but tagging TJ was a no brainer. Somehow the Bengals screwed it up though.

[Baraka]

This was a terrible decision. I'm not opposed to re-signing Graham but tagging TJ was a no brainer. Somehow the Bengals screwed it up though.

as in you would have no brain if you gave a 32 yr old #2 receiver 10 million dollars for one year, i hope

[Clackwoods]

This was a terrible decision. I'm not opposed to re-signing Graham but tagging TJ was a no brainer. Somehow the Bengals screwed it up though.

as in you would have no brain if you gave a 32 yr old #2 receiver 10 million dollars for one year, i hope

HAHAHA If you think it is a no brainer you don't have a brain. You know you can sign to big FA from that much?

[ArmyBengal]

This is quite possibly one of the stupidest threads I've seen since being on this board. Someone tell me again how spending 2.48 million on one of the most accurate kickers in the HISTORY of the NFL is bad. Please tell me. It's the average of the top 5 kickers in the league. Do you NOT think Shayne is top 5 ?? I guess if you don't than there is your arguement, but I would say you are wrong. Take this from the official site and Hobson's write up...

It's hard to chuck away a 90 percent kicker and consider this late-game stat from Elias culled by Bengals assistant public relations director P.J. Combs: With the chance to take the lead in the fourth quarter, Graham is 7-for-9. With the chance to tie the game in the fourth quarter he's 3-for-4. He's 0-for-1 in OT and the reason that is such a blemish because it came in the '06 finale and if he makes it they make the playoffs. But given those other numbers, it's not fair to paint his entire career as un-clutch.

I agree that it's totally unfair to paint Shayne as un-clutch and while those misses stung, it hardly paints the whole picture of Shayne. Lets go ahead and get over the fact Mike Brown is the owner of this team, we all know it and regardless of how you view this, it was the smart move. So you say you would have rather signed him long term ?? Exactly how much do you think that is going to cost the team ?? He's top 5 in the league EASY, so he's going to get that money and then there's the guarantee cash that will surely come as well and in looking at an uncapped year you can't spread things out over future years.

TJ ?? Please, the guy has been disgruntled for years and he finally admitted to it in his quick interview when the news broke about Shayne. Check the quote from the official site as well...

"I didn't go to the last two (seasons of) voluntary workouts because I felt like I was underpaid compared to what my peers were getting," said Houshmandzadeh, who signed a four-year deal for roughly $3 million per before the 2005 season.

So TJ always gave the answer that he didn't show because he wanted to work with his own people and be able to be close to his family. Come to find, he didn't show because he felt he was underpaid. Sound familiar ?? That quote just gave me another reason to more than happy to see him AND Chad get bent. Move on already with what we've got. Oh yeah, did anyone NOT think they were planning for this when they drafted all those WR's last draft ??

[Baraka]

yeah the writing was on the wall when they took receivers in both the 2nd and 3rd rounds, especially receivers that so closely resemble the two starters in height-weight and physical attributes. i've written this before but i think its amazing how similar caldwell/tj and johnson/simpson are.

[Kazkal]

Good Sum of everything army,now only if we can trade Chad....

Maybe the team that Signs TJ will trade for Ocho

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Absolute Boobery! It's so bad that Joe Pong thinks it's good. Unless they prove themselves to be clutch, Kickers are a dime a dozen. I like Opie as much as the next guy, but the jury is still out on clutch. In fact, there is evidence to suggest otherwise. Here's a concept. If you like your kicker, offer him a reasonable four year deal.

It would be o.k. if Brown had a plan. But, we all know he doesn't. He just slaps the franchise tag on one guy every year that he is not intelligent enough to sign.

Say what you want about TJ, but he shows up to play every day. So, now we are stuck waiting for the ticking mouth bomb to go off. Carson needs to get the he!! out of this damn town!

Exactly, no plan, no ability to retain players in a timely fashion that ensures consistency and makes the best use of the cap.

Why didn't they just sign Graham last year after they shored up an extra $10 million or so after cutting Willie and Rudi, for instance? He's a KICKER, he doesn't like a reasonable long term deal, get a new one. Teams do it all the time.

The Bungal move is to let your 2nd best offensive player walk, and franchise your kicker. Not even a phone call or a discussion or effort with TJ.

Brilliant.

It still amazes me that people here routinely defend and brush this stuff off every off-season.

There is a reason they are the absolute worst NFL team since Mike Brown took over. There's a reason, and it's got nothing to do with dumb luck or injuries.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Good Sum of everything army,now only if we can trade Chad....

Maybe the team that Signs TJ will trade for Ocho

This would be fun watching Henry as a #1 wideout and Carson with under 3 seconds to throw every snap.

I don't expect the Bengals' would spend extra $ on worthwhile FA's. Plus no one wants to come here, so the savings don't excite me any.

And the draft isn't going to turn around a team like this in one year, and hasn't for a long time.

I'll quit pooing on the franchise kicker parade.

Marvin Lewis, your star is falling, fast, welcome to the graveyard of head coaching jobs, took you a while, but you got there with a record Mike Brown employed head coaching tenure of 6 years. At least you're now guaranteed a job here with no pressure to win as long you want to do it.

Congratulations.

[volcom69]

Now what do they do for receiver. They let TJ go and now what, Chad dosnt want to be here hell i dont even want him hear, but without him this team is screwed. I bet Carson is so mad right now, and wondering who he is going to throw the ball to now. I like shayne just as much the next guy, but like shula said they screwed up by not signing him last season. If this team cant sign TJ this offense will be just as bad as last season, with nobody to catch a ball. Just wish they would have signed shayne sooner.

[mgilgris]

I like the move. TJ was a great receiver but was getting up there in age and price. It will be intersting to see where the offense production comes from but maybe we can use some of that 7 Mil in rebuilding the line. With enough time to throw, any receiver should be able to get open.

[Clackwoods]

Now what do they do for receiver. They let TJ go and now what, Chad dosnt want to be here hell i dont even want him hear, but without him this team is screwed. I bet Carson is so mad right now, and wondering who he is going to throw the ball to now. I like shayne just as much the next guy, but like shula said they screwed up by not signing him last season. If this team cant sign TJ this offense will be just as bad as last season, with nobody to catch a ball. Just wish they would have signed shayne sooner.

Two Words- Mike Furrey

Here is why: He is the same age as TJ

In 2006 when he was a number 2 receiver his numbers in comparison to TJ of 06

Mike Furrey- 98 Catches 1086 Yards (11.1 Per) and 6 tds

TJ- 90 Catches 1081 Yards (12 Per) and 9 tds

Furrey is a great competitor and he would come way way cheaper than TJ, in fact I can't believe he isn't being mentioned as a high quality WR this season. Anyways, he is coming from the Lions so the Bengals would actually be a step up for him. His numbers may even be better with the guy that replaced Kitna throwing him the ball.

Screw TJ, if you don't believe in Simpson and Caldwell then sign Furrey. Even without him we still have Chad (Who until last year was a top 5 WR, a solid Number 2 guy in Caldwell, and Henry) If Henry is dumb and messes up again then we just slide Simpson into his spot, he could actually replace him as the number 3 this year.

[Kazkal]

Good Sum of everything army,now only if we can trade Chad....

Maybe the team that Signs TJ will trade for Ocho

This would be fun watching Henry as a #1 wideout and Carson with under 3 seconds to throw every snap.

I don't expect the Bengals' would spend extra $ on worthwhile FA's. Plus no one wants to come here, so the savings don't excite me any.

And the draft isn't going to turn around a team like this in one year, and hasn't for a long time.

I'll quit pooing on the franchise kicker parade.

Marvin Lewis, your star is falling, fast, welcome to the graveyard of head coaching jobs, took you a while, but you got there with a record Mike Brown employed head coaching tenure of 6 years. At least you're now guaranteed a job here with no pressure to win as long you want to do it.

Congratulations.

Actually if we traded chad I would say sign veteran who is only looking for 3-4 year deal12-16million. vs 5-6 and 40million dollars..

[Bearcat1975]

I'm about as big of a Mike Brown basher as there is, but I can't fault him for this one.

The right thing to do is to keep Shayne and let TJ walk. Ideally, Shayne would be signed long term and TJ would walk without us having to use the tag. But perhaps Mike BRown is recognizing his own limitations.

He took the easy inefficient path as usual... but he made the semi-correct choice.

[Clackwoods]

Good Sum of everything army,now only if we can trade Chad....

Maybe the team that Signs TJ will trade for Ocho

This would be fun watching Henry as a #1 wideout and Carson with under 3 seconds to throw every snap.

I don't expect the Bengals' would spend extra $ on worthwhile FA's. Plus no one wants to come here, so the savings don't excite me any.

And the draft isn't going to turn around a team like this in one year, and hasn't for a long time.

I'll quit pooing on the franchise kicker parade.

Marvin Lewis, your star is falling, fast, welcome to the graveyard of head coaching jobs, took you a while, but you got there with a record Mike Brown employed head coaching tenure of 6 years. At least you're now guaranteed a job here with no pressure to win as long you want to do it.

Congratulations.

Actually if we traded chad I would say sign veteran who is only looking for 3-4 year deal12-16million. vs 5-6 and 40million dollars..

Something I heard that was interesting was a comment on the economy. The fear of losing fans due to the economy could force Mike to inject some new life and new hope into the team. This could cause him to go against himself and make a splash in FA. I would take a Center, RB, or Linebacker FA stud such as Brown, Saturday, Birk, Sproles, Ray Lewis, and my personal favorite Carlos Dansby.

[ArmyBengal]

Lets see, who do they throw to ?? I don't know, maybe the 2nd and 3rd round pick they took in last years draft ?? Does that sound reasonable ?? I mean TJ was a 7th rounder that progressed into a pro bowler and at one point in time damn near everyone was willing to have his injured ass cut. Is it to much to expect that Carson wouldn't have the same type of success with two other receivers ?? Or maybe people are only high on Carson when defending him being better than Brady in the other thread ??

Why didn't they sign him last year when they had the money ?? Good question, but seeing as how I don't work in the front office, I can't account for how any of that panned out. Maybe Shayne doesn't really want to be here either. TJ had everyone thinking he wasn't here for OTA's because of his family for three years now. Maybe Shayne's agent is a complete dickhe@d. Maybe there are other reasons, but for now minus someone here giving front office info, I'll stick with the "I don't know, but it's a good question" answer.

I'm still waiting for reasonable answers to my first post instead of the same old, "Mike Brown is an assh@le" type posts. While I will conceed that Mike Brown is an assh@le, this was still a good move. I'll tell you guys what, you don't even need to answer all of those other questions, I'll give you one.

How much did you think it was/is going to cost to sign Shayne long term ?? I mean he really is a top 5 kicker in the league, so is to much to believe he should be paid that way ??

[Clackwoods]

Lets see, who do they throw to ?? I don't know, maybe the 2nd and 3rd round pick they took in last years draft ?? Does that sound reasonable ?? I mean TJ was a 7th rounder that progressed into a pro bowler and at one point in time damn near everyone was willing to let his injured ass cut. Is it to much to expect that Carson wouldn't have the same type of success with two other receivers ?? Or maybe people are only high on Carson when defending him being better than Brady in the other thread ??

Why didn't they sign him last year when they had the money ?? Good question, but seeing as how I don't work in the front office, I can't account for how any of that panned out. Maybe Shayne doesn't really want to be here either. TJ had everyone thinking he wasn't here for OTA's because of his family for three years now. Maybe Shayne's agent is a complete dickhe@d. Maybe there are other reasons, but for now minus someone here giving front office info, I'll stick with the "I don't know, but it's a good question" answer.

I'm still waiting for reasonable answers to my first post instead of the same old, "Mike Brown is an assh@le" type posts. While I will conceed that Mike Brown is an assh@le, this was still a good move. I'll tell you guys what, you don't even need to answer all of those other questions, I'll give you one.

How much did you think it was/is going to cost to sign Shayne long term ?? I mean he really is a top 5 kicker in the league, so is to much to believe he should be paid that way ??

I am sure they could have gotten him for four years around 9 million.

[Clackwoods]

Completly off subject, but did anyone else realize that Thigpen from the Chiefs was Jerome Simpsons QB in college? I was watching some clips of this guy and it has led me to the realization that they will trade Chad next off season for a second round pick. They got him to eventually take over for Chad and they need him to bloom some more. Cincy may have a screwed up organization, but they have been pretty good about getting WR talent later in the draft.

[JoePong]

It's hard to sign someone who clearly doesn't want to be here. Let him take his act somewhere else and have him skip some other team's off-season workouts and camps.

This guy is an idiot. This clown was actually threatening to sit out off-season activities if we gave him the franchise tag. Hey TJ you p***y! Your sorry ass never showed up for those anyway. And its one of the reasons our offense got off to such a slow start last season and our year was over before it had even begun.

Good riddance. Our offense will move on with younger, more dynamic WRs who can average more than 5 yards a catch.

[Baraka]

i don't think there is anything wrong with paying him as a top 3 kicker. i saw some where that they offered him 5 years and 20 million, now the source on this is less than credible more than likely just made it up, but if that is the kind of cash he's looking for i'm not sure he's worth it. 4 million dollars for a kicker? i'd go 3 maybe 3.25 but higher than that and i'm sure other players on the team that are making close to that would have a problem. i'm not sure what chad's cap number is this year but i've heard it's reasonable, he may have a beef if it's within a million or two of what the kicker signs for.

that's not unreasonable, is it?

[ArmyBengal]

So maybe 9 million over 4 years ?? OR 2.25 million per year. Baraka would go as high as maybe 3.25 million per year. So for everyone else, where's the 2.48 million he's getting this coming year for the tag so much different than what most think he would get in a long term contract ?? Don't forget the signing bonus that would be guaranteed as well...

A whole lot of b*tching for something that is right about par for the course. I'll tell you what, how about being happy that there is one less concern for this team, we still have an above average kicker, and the money spent WON'T keep us from being active in free agency. I know, I know, the question still remains, "WILL we be active in free agency" ?? I don't know for sure, but at least we aren't sitting here right now KNOWING we won't be and that basically we are set until the draft and camps begin. F*CK THAT !!!

[Clackwoods]

So maybe 9 million over 4 years ?? OR 2.25 million per year. Baraka would go as high as maybe 3.25 million per year. So for everyone else, where's the 2.48 million he's getting this coming year for the tag so much different than what most think he would get in a long term contract ?? Don't forget the signing bonus that would be guaranteed as well...

A whole lot of b*tching for something that is right about par for the course. I'll tell you what, how about being happy that there is one less concern for this team, we still have an above average kicker, and the money spent WON'T keep us from being active in free agency. I know, I know, the question still remains, "WILL we be active in free agency" ?? I don't know for sure, but at least we aren't sitting here right now KNOWING we won't be and that basically we are set until the draft and camps begin. F*CK THAT !!!

Hallelujah. I agree with you completely. I think we would have handcuff ourselves with TJ. We have young talent waiting in the wings for a reason. If Simpson progresses and plays well I could defiantly see them getting rid of Chad the same way the Lions shipped off Williams.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm telling you, it doesn't take that much to see that one coming sooner or later as well. Marvin has been quoted multiple times about how "HUGE" they think Simpson is going to be this coming season. Simpson was drafted to replace one receiver and I'll give you a hint, his name isn't TJ.

Now how that all works out remains to be seen, but I'm only commenting on how the organization views the situation if you take them at their word.