Kazkal Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I knew willie difference but point was that change up at the starting of the 2008 line didn't lead to 40+ more sacks in the season before....Injurys did...He'd love to see the Bengals draft one of those left tackles early. Or USC middle linebacker Rey Maualuga. He thinks head coach Marvin Lewis might like him."He looks like a guy that can run from sideline to sideline and make plays," Houshmandzadeh said. "Marvin hasn't had a guy like that since Odell (Thurman)."Defensive minded coach who loves linebackers,I don't think it will be too hard for zimmer to talk them in too it more so if they feel it's a deep year for Oline <which it does seems to be that way> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCook Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I knew willie difference but point was that change up at the starting of the 2008 line didn't lead to 40+ more sacks in the season before....Injurys did...He'd love to see the Bengals draft one of those left tackles early. Or USC middle linebacker Rey Maualuga. He thinks head coach Marvin Lewis might like him."He looks like a guy that can run from sideline to sideline and make plays," Houshmandzadeh said. "Marvin hasn't had a guy like that since Odell (Thurman)."Defensive minded coach who loves linebackers,I don't think it will be too hard for zimmer to talk them in too it more so if they feel it's a deep year for Oline <which it does seems to be that way>Remember Carson in the preseason with his broken nose? Well before the injuries set in. That line was bad before the first game and got alot worse as injuries set in. All NFL teams have injuries and we were fortunate that we had Anthony Collins ready to play LT...good job Mike Brown. But neither the starters nor backups stopped the QB assault as the season wore on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I knew willie difference but point was that change up at the starting of the 2008 line didn't lead to 40+ more sacks in the season before....Injurys did...He'd love to see the Bengals draft one of those left tackles early. Or USC middle linebacker Rey Maualuga. He thinks head coach Marvin Lewis might like him."He looks like a guy that can run from sideline to sideline and make plays," Houshmandzadeh said. "Marvin hasn't had a guy like that since Odell (Thurman)."Defensive minded coach who loves linebackers,I don't think it will be too hard for zimmer to talk them in too it more so if they feel it's a deep year for Oline <which it does seems to be that way>Remember Carson in the preseason with his broken nose? Well before the injuries set in. That line was bad before the first game and got alot worse as injuries set in. All NFL teams have injuries and we were fortunate that we had Anthony Collins ready to play LT...good job Mike Brown. But neither the starters nor backups stopped the QB assault as the season wore on.I've been wanting to see improved Oline since 2007 I don't doubt we need Oline,my only thing is I don't wanna see a single position targeted and belike thats what were taking in the draft..there is more then one round in the draft I'd be more then happy with finding another whitworth type player to put on the outside hell I'd be happy with whitworth on the outside I hear people talk about how he's never played RT and he should be left at guard but yet he never played guard till he came to cinci....PS,I know I have man crush on Rey but if Cinci goes with best available Olinemen who actually worth #6 you wouldn't hear a peep from me unless it was major reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 One of Smith, Orapko or Rey for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Monroe will likely be the best available OT at #6, since Smith is likely gone 1 or 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Monroe will likely be the best available OT at #6, since Smith is likely gone 1 or 2Durability is a legit concern...InconsistentLevi x2? <just was reading write up on him> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCook Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I knew willie difference but point was that change up at the starting of the 2008 line didn't lead to 40+ more sacks in the season before....Injurys did...He'd love to see the Bengals draft one of those left tackles early. Or USC middle linebacker Rey Maualuga. He thinks head coach Marvin Lewis might like him."He looks like a guy that can run from sideline to sideline and make plays," Houshmandzadeh said. "Marvin hasn't had a guy like that since Odell (Thurman)."Defensive minded coach who loves linebackers,I don't think it will be too hard for zimmer to talk them in too it more so if they feel it's a deep year for Oline <which it does seems to be that way>Remember Carson in the preseason with his broken nose? Well before the injuries set in. That line was bad before the first game and got alot worse as injuries set in. All NFL teams have injuries and we were fortunate that we had Anthony Collins ready to play LT...good job Mike Brown. But neither the starters nor backups stopped the QB assault as the season wore on.I've been wanting to see improved Oline since 2007 I don't doubt we need Oline,my only thing is I don't wanna see a single position targeted and belike thats what were taking in the draft..there is more then one round in the draft I'd be more then happy with finding another whitworth type player to put on the outside hell I'd be happy with whitworth on the outside I hear people talk about how he's never played RT and he should be left at guard but yet he never played guard till he came to cinci....PS,I know I have man crush on Rey but if Cinci goes with best available Olinemen who actually worth #6 you wouldn't hear a peep from me unless it was major reach.I don't want them to reach either, I also think the best player available at #6 will be a LT, Monroe, Oher, Andre Smith, Jason Smith with maybe 2 of them available to the Bengals. Since the Bengals are desperate for another LT and the best player available is an LT, its their lucky day. Course Mike Brown may decide to trade down and make all of this mute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't want them to reach either, I also think the best player available at #6 will be a LT, Monroe, Oher, Andre Smith, Jason Smith with maybe 2 of them available to the Bengals. Since the Bengals are desperate for another LT and the best player available is an LT, its their lucky day. I'd have to call it a bad luck day because there's no way 4 out of the top 6 prospects in this draft are offensive lineman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 No doubt,Interesting how goes from last year being one strongest tackle classes with 8 going in the 1st 1# Jake Long---12# RYan Clady----14# Chris Williams----15#Branden Albert ---17#Gosder Cherilus-----19#jeff otah-----21#Sam Baker----26#Duane BrownBy the way how people talk should be 5-6 linemen going top 10 this year :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There has been much talk that the Bengals will get an impact player sitting at #6, so we should be happy. My question is not, will they make an impact, rather HOW MUCH of an impact will they make ?? With that thought in mind, I'm now in full mode of pimping Raji. Everyone was screaming for Ellis last year and would have sh*t to have Dorsey. We got Sims and he has outperformed the other two that went at the top of the first. Adding the big body who is more capable of stepping in right now and is not the project that Shirley is would be huge. You can forget about adding a DE in the first three rounds if at all because you would be giving Odom and Geathers the kind of guy they need to take up space and demand a double team. Just thinking round about here... Raji, Sims, and Peko are a VERY nice rotation !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCook Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't want them to reach either, I also think the best player available at #6 will be a LT, Monroe, Oher, Andre Smith, Jason Smith with maybe 2 of them available to the Bengals. Since the Bengals are desperate for another LT and the best player available is an LT, its their lucky day. I'd have to call it a bad luck day because there's no way 4 out of the top 6 prospects in this draft are offensive lineman.Well the QB's aren't impressive. Only one DT that has shown much. One DE too. Maybe another CB in Jenkins. Wouldn't surprise me at all that 4 OT's are gone after the 8th pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Plus Crabtree and maybe the Chiefs go with Stafford. I think the 49ers go for Sanchez but that's after our pick anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I still think that Jenkins to the Browns makes more sense than Curry, but maybe that's just me. Everyone made the point how bad it was when they gave up Bodden to the Lions to get Rogers and they got no one to fill that spot. It killed them all season long. If Curry is there he's another option almost to good to pass. The #1 LB, the #1 DT, and the #1 DE sitting at 6 for us is win win for the defense. A top 3 OT is also nothing to sneeze at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There has been much talk that the Bengals will get an impact player sitting at #6, so we should be happy. My question is not, will they make an impact, rather HOW MUCH of an impact will they make ?? With that thought in mind, I'm now in full mode of pimping Raji. Everyone was screaming for Ellis last year and would have sh*t to have Dorsey. We got Sims and he has outperformed the other two that went at the top of the first. Adding the big body who is more capable of stepping in right now and is not the project that Shirley is would be huge. You can forget about adding a DE in the first three rounds if at all because you would be giving Odom and Geathers the kind of guy they need to take up space and demand a double team. Just thinking round about here... Raji, Sims, and Peko are a VERY nice rotation !!!So we are gonning to pay peko 30million to sit on the bench for running downs? My biggest concern is same with taking a end this early but I would find it easier because I would not mind benching or cutting odom :| if we wanted a guy who only gets 8 sacks playing by the best DT we should have just kept Justin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There has been much talk that the Bengals will get an impact player sitting at #6, so we should be happy. My question is not, will they make an impact, rather HOW MUCH of an impact will they make ?? With that thought in mind, I'm now in full mode of pimping Raji. Everyone was screaming for Ellis last year and would have sh*t to have Dorsey. We got Sims and he has outperformed the other two that went at the top of the first. Adding the big body who is more capable of stepping in right now and is not the project that Shirley is would be huge. You can forget about adding a DE in the first three rounds if at all because you would be giving Odom and Geathers the kind of guy they need to take up space and demand a double team. Just thinking round about here... Raji, Sims, and Peko are a VERY nice rotation !!!So we gonna pay peko 30million to sit on the bench for running downs? for chance Raji may make the ends better...I wouldn't mind getting him but would be same problem with taking end that early besides a end more likely to help the pass rush...There are a number of problems I have with taking a DT with the #6 pick. 1) The DT bust rate. DT is the 2nd most likely position to bust after QB. I'm not 100% on the reasons for that... but that risk causes me to take pause. Just look at the production of Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey vs. Pat Sims. Two top 10 picks (both highly coveted by many of us) vs. a 3rd rounder. Very similar stats... Sims did it in 9 games started vs. 13 and 16 games started.2) DT is not the position of need vs. other possible selections with this pick. Many of us have bemoaned ML's refusal to use higher draft picks on DT's and instead signing aging veterans as a stop-gap. Well... he's finally got a young group out there. Peko and Sims may not be an elite tandem... but I'll bet you a rookie isn't going to be stealing a starting job from either of them any time soon. I have a problem with using the #6 overall pick on a guy you're only going to put in a situational rotation. Besides... the Bengals have their share of promising young talent in Orien Harris and Pat Shirley.3) DT is not the reason the Bengals lack a pass rush. DE is. Perhaps a truly elite DT would marginally help Odom and Geathers... but the Bengals are receiving relatively good play from the DT's as is. The only way to get a pass rush from the DE position is to get an elite pass-rushing DE. Since that doesn't exist in this draft... they should go in a different direction. (Perhaps a MLB that will be an every down player and become the leader of this defense for years to come?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well put Derek and I can see that. I had forgotten about Orien Harris as well. I'm still hoping Shirley is putting in his time to figure things out. If the light comes on for either of those two than, yes I can see not taking DT at #6. I'm just not sold quite yet. I'm also not buying the whole "Odom is a garbage signing" yet either. I know you didn't say that specifically Derek, but people are writing off the fact the guy got hurt on the first day of practice and missed significant time through the year. If the guy comes back healthy this year and does nothing, then fine, but I think it's bit premature. You just can't write off his production from Tennessee and if it's an argument of him not having the big guy in the middle, then get him one. Someone that can demand double teams, collapse the pocket, and get good penetration into the backfield to disrupt things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well the QB's aren't impressive. Only one DT that has shown much. One DE too. Maybe another CB in Jenkins. Wouldn't surprise me at all that 4 OT's are gone after the 8th pick. The QB's could be a gift because they're so often overdrafted, and whenever that happens it pushes one of the blue chippers down a spot. But ask yourself why QB's are so often overdrafted? Isn't it because teams too often favor need over value? And in this example, isn't that exactly what you're suggesting the Bengals willingly do, changing only the position being overdrafted? Last, the so-called crop of true bluechipers in any draft rarely numbers more than a half dozen prospects, and rarely boasts more than one or two prospects who play the same positions. Yet I'm supposed to believe this draft class is so heavily weighted towards offensive lineman that as many as four out of the top six prospects are OT's, each of whom is so good there's no discernable difference in their respective rankings? Just take whatever guys is available? Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There are a number of problems I have with taking a DT with the #6 pick. 1) The DT bust rate. DT is the 2nd most likely position to bust after QB. I'm not 100% on the reasons for that... but that risk causes me to take pause. Just look at the production of Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey vs. Pat Sims. Two top 10 picks (both highly coveted by many of us) vs. a 3rd rounder. Very similar stats... Sims did it in 9 games started vs. 13 and 16 games started.2) DT is not the position of need vs. other possible selections with this pick. Many of us have bemoaned ML's refusal to use higher draft picks on DT's and instead signing aging veterans as a stop-gap. Well... he's finally got a young group out there. Peko and Sims may not be an elite tandem... but I'll bet you a rookie isn't going to be stealing a starting job from either of them any time soon. I have a problem with using the #6 overall pick on a guy you're only going to put in a situational rotation. Besides... the Bengals have their share of promising young talent in Orien Harris and Pat Shirley.3) DT is not the reason the Bengals lack a pass rush. DE is. Perhaps a truly elite DT would marginally help Odom and Geathers... but the Bengals are receiving relatively good play from the DT's as is. The only way to get a pass rush from the DE position is to get an elite pass-rushing DE. Since that doesn't exist in this draft... they should go in a different direction. (Perhaps a MLB that will be an every down player and become the leader of this defense for years to come?)Let me simply say that I'm not overly concerned about 1., and 2. and 3. strike me as steaming piles of horse poop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There are a number of problems I have with taking a DT with the #6 pick. 1) The DT bust rate. DT is the 2nd most likely position to bust after QB. I'm not 100% on the reasons for that... but that risk causes me to take pause. Just look at the production of Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey vs. Pat Sims. Two top 10 picks (both highly coveted by many of us) vs. a 3rd rounder. Very similar stats... Sims did it in 9 games started vs. 13 and 16 games started.2) DT is not the position of need vs. other possible selections with this pick. Many of us have bemoaned ML's refusal to use higher draft picks on DT's and instead signing aging veterans as a stop-gap. Well... he's finally got a young group out there. Peko and Sims may not be an elite tandem... but I'll bet you a rookie isn't going to be stealing a starting job from either of them any time soon. I have a problem with using the #6 overall pick on a guy you're only going to put in a situational rotation. Besides... the Bengals have their share of promising young talent in Orien Harris and Pat Shirley.3) DT is not the reason the Bengals lack a pass rush. DE is. Perhaps a truly elite DT would marginally help Odom and Geathers... but the Bengals are receiving relatively good play from the DT's as is. The only way to get a pass rush from the DE position is to get an elite pass-rushing DE. Since that doesn't exist in this draft... they should go in a different direction. (Perhaps a MLB that will be an every down player and become the leader of this defense for years to come?)Let me simply say that I'm not overly concerned about 1., and 2. and 3. strike me as steaming piles of horse poop.That's your opinion I guess, and you're entitled to it. But I would have hoped you would have given some reasoning.So I'm left to assume that you are in favor of using the #6 overall pick for a rotational player and that you believe that this player will result in the reinvigoration of Geathers' and Odom's sack stats.Interesting that Freeney and Mathis manage to get sacks in bunches year after year regardless of the quality of the play from their DT's. Perhaps DT isn't the problem with this team (given that they received better play from the DT's this year than any other time in the Marvin era). Rather, they need to use Geathers the way the Colts use Mathis. Get another solid DE and bring Geathers in primarily on passing downs... the way they did when he got his 10.5 sacks. I'd rather take Orakpo than Raji... and I don't want Orakpo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'd rather take Orakpo than Raji... and I don't want Orakpo. My take? I want Orakpo for many reasons, but mostly because I truly believe he's a blue chipper, and might be the last one available when the Bengals pick. When considering Raji I can't make that same claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'd rather take Orakpo than Raji... and I don't want Orakpo.My take? I want Orakpo for many reasons, but mostly because I truly believe he's a blue chipper, and might be the last one available when the Bengals pick. When considering Raji I can't make that same claim.Fair enough. My reason for warming up to Orakpo (only a little) is just what I stated. I think he will be a true 3-down DE. Meanwhile, Odom and Geathers can be rotated in and out depending on the situation increasing their pass-rush productivity. This would be a greater impact than any DT will make.More reasons I don't want Raji? He's jumping up the draft boards after the senior bowl. Remind anyone of Sedrick Ellis? How'd that work out? Raji is a character red flag. He sat out the 2007 season when Boston College red shirted him due to 'academic issues'. He returned in 2008 for his senior year. He was also ejected from a game with Central Michigan and subsequently suspended for punching an opponent. Raji missed all of Spring practice in 2008 with a shoulder injury and this is something that needs to be researched.Way too many concerns for the #6 overall pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Fair enough. My reason for warming up to Orakpo (only a little) is just what I stated. I think he will be a true 3-down DE. Meanwhile, Odom and Geathers can be rotated in and out depending on the situation increasing their pass-rush productivity. This would be a greater impact than any DT will make. Yup, yup, and yup again. And working along the same lines as the rest of your post....check out Orakpo's bio. Outstanding character. Intelligent and instinctive. Won't be outworked. A team leader. And perhaps most importantly, he talks in a calm voice so deep you might think you were listening to someone speaking from four feet underground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 That's your opinion I guess, and you're entitled to it. But I would have hoped you would have given some reasoning.I gave as much reasoning as I felt you did. We don't need Raji because we have Orien Harris and "Pat" Shirley? Really, how impressive can "Pat" be if you can't even remember his name?As for DT not being the problem with the pass rush, I simply disagree. Getting a difference-maker in the middle would do more for the rush than anything except possibly Orapko -- and even that's a coin flip that assumes Geathers' 2005 performance wasn't a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 As to comparisons to Dorsey and Ellis from last year I will tell you I still believe both players will be multiple time pro-bowlers in their careers and I think Raji compares favorably. I would like Maualuga but I certainly would not cry to long or hard if they chose Raji. How long have we been crying for a dominent Defender in the Middle of the line? Peko is a good second guy, Sims showed signs last year, but anymore you need a rotation of good guys to keep players fresh, ala NY Giants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Sorry, had to step out for a sec. Okay, on we go.More reasons I don't want Raji? He's jumping up the draft boards after the senior bowl. Remind anyone of Sedrick Ellis? How'd that work out?Actually, Raji hasn't jumped that much on the draft boards. Oh, there are few folks like me who have fallen in love, but for the most part Raji is still seen going where he was before the SB, between 12 (Bills) and 24 (Falcons). Those that see him in the 6 (Bengals) to 9 (Green Bay) range remain a minority, though the Packers are probably getting more love as a destination than Cincy.Raji is a character red flag. He sat out the 2007 season when Boston College red shirted him due to 'academic issues'.My understanding is that the suspension was related to some kind of book-keeping snafu at BC that denied him credit for some summer courses. It doesn't appear to be an issue.He was also ejected from a game with Central Michigan and subsequently suspended for punching an opponent.Well, I guess we should cut Whit then...Raji missed all of Spring practice in 2008 with a shoulder injury and this is something that needs to be researched.It certainly should, but it didn't seem to impact his play last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.