Housh to the Seahawks Ocho Cinco to the Giants

[BlainThePain]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...rapup012509.htm

We hear the rumor that the Seahawks could be interested in Bengals free-agent WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh might have some merit. Houshmandzadeh played his college ball at nearby Oregon State, and word is the team wants to avoid having to depend so much on unproven youngsters such as Ben Obomanu, Logan Payne and Courtney Taylor for another season. Also on the WR front, we hear Koren Robinson is a long shot to return. Said one source: “Not only does he have a bone-on-bone knee injury, but you just can’t count on him anymore as a legitimate run-after-catch threat.”

Chad Ocho Cinco to the Giants? Hang on a minute. Yes, rumors have floated that the Giants might be interested in adding a receiver, especially given Plaxico Burress’ legal situation and the fact that Amani Toomer is a free agent and not likely to be back. But as much as GM Jerry Reese likes talent, we hear there might be some people in the organization who would oppose the move, given Ocho Cinco’s histrionics and the potential clash it might cause with the businesslike atmosphere head coach Tom Coughlin has worked hard to establish. That said, the Giants would be buying low. Ocho Cinco is coming off his worst season since becoming a star, and the Bengals are said to be willing to move him at a friendly price.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Tourage I'd like to keep. A great possession receiver. Chad I'd like to keep as well, but I really don't see Cincinnati holding on to both at this point.

Who really knows what the head of Mike Brown holds?

[BlainThePain]

Tourage I'd like to keep. A great possession receiver. Chad I'd like to keep as well, but I really don't see Cincinnati holding on to both at this point.

Who really knows what the head of Mike Brown holds?

I just hope we don't get rid of both of them. I agree with you that Housh would be the better one to keep, but if they don't keep at least one of them, you can count on the offensive and defensive front seven being ignored and Michael Crabtree as a Cincinnati Bengal.

[Bearcat1975]

Based on my experience with the Cincinnati Bengals, I see it going down like this:

They either tag TJ or let him walk, and they keep Chad.

Nice and easy.

Nice and inside the box, as usual.

[GregCook]

Based on my experience with the Cincinnati Bengals, I see it going down like this:

They either tag TJ or let him walk, and they keep Chad.

Nice and easy.

Nice and inside the box, as usual.

Exactly who would the Bengals count on to catch Carson's balls...sorry that doesn't sound right. Still neither TJ nor Chad? Just don't see it since the Bengals can tag TJ. Plus if they wouldn't part with Chad for a first rounder last season, getting rid of him for less would make Mike Brown look dumb to other owners. Why would he do that?

[Bearcat1975]

Based on my experience with the Cincinnati Bengals, I see it going down like this:

They either tag TJ or let him walk, and they keep Chad.

Nice and easy.

Nice and inside the box, as usual.

Exactly who would the Bengals count on to catch Carson's balls...sorry that doesn't sound right. Still neither TJ nor Chad? Just don't see it since the Bengals can tag TJ. Plus if they wouldn't part with Chad for a first rounder last season, getting rid of him for less would make Mike Brown look dumb to other owners. Why would he do that?

Chad and TJ both want to leave. Marvin cleared out talented players with the same mentality when he got here.

It helped. You really can't have very many team veterans on the Cincinnati Bengals. Veterans who play for the Bengals long enough turn into "cancers."

The best recipe for the Bengals is to have a young scrappy team lead by a few vets who have a somewhat vested interest in the team.

TJ and Chad know too much about the franchise. Which is why they need to go, in favor of younger players that have not yet been polluted by the Bengals ineptitude.

At this point, this is the only path I see to the Bengals even being competitive next season, "weak schedule" and all. But again, knowing the Bengals, they will keep Chad and either tag TJ or let him walk...probably tag him, since I know that will really piss him off.

We might even have the first unprecedented double WR holdout in the NFL. Both Chad and TJ sticking it out until 2010. And you know Mike Brown would stick to his guns. etc etc etc and the beat goes on to record profits... The Bengals are so predictable.

Once...just once, I would like the Bengals to prove me wrong.

[ArmyBengal]

Well, the 49'ers seem to be in the mix as well. Me thinks that list is going to get much longer before it's all said and done...

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/26/...houshmandzadeh/

[HoosierCat]

Based on my experience with the Cincinnati Bengals, I see it going down like this:

They either tag TJ or let him walk, and they keep Chad.

Nice and easy.

Nice and inside the box, as usual.

Yeah, inertia is a powerful force in this franchise. I figure that TJ gets tagged, and he sits out OTAs (as usual) and eats some fines for skipping the mandatory minis as well. He does show up at camp, but pulls the "ow my hammy" act again and spends August jogging on the sidelines. Chad, of course, skips the OTAs too, though he flies out for the mandatories. But the bottom line is that between Palmer's elbow and TJ and Chad's contract issues, the three spend precious little time resolving the last two season's worth of passing game struggles, so the O is doomed to sputter early on next September.

[HoTbOy]

I honestly don't think that CJohnson will be a problem, he has been low key all year and I think that he will come back after seeing the struggles with the team chemistry on offense, and want to prove to the team and the league that he is still a threat to the other teams D...I think that the problem will be with TJ, he has made it clear that he does not want to get tagged and as far as I know there hasn't been any contract talks...IMO I don't think that TJ is a #1 WR, I don't think that he can stretch the field, he would need a speedster on the other side to draw double teams for him to operate...I just don't see him able to get away from double teams if he is the #1 guy for any team...I brought up trading CJohnson to the Gmen to some of my friends that like them after they loss the playoff game and they didn't want any parts of CJohnson...

[Bearcat1975]

Based on my experience with the Cincinnati Bengals, I see it going down like this:

They either tag TJ or let him walk, and they keep Chad.

Nice and easy.

Nice and inside the box, as usual.

Yeah, inertia is a powerful force in this franchise. I figure that TJ gets tagged, and he sits out OTAs (as usual) and eats some fines for skipping the mandatory minis as well. He does show up at camp, but pulls the "ow my hammy" act again and spends August jogging on the sidelines. Chad, of course, skips the OTAs too, though he flies out for the mandatories. But the bottom line is that between Palmer's elbow and TJ and Chad's contract issues, the three spend precious little time resolving the last two season's worth of passing game struggles, so the O is doomed to sputter early on next September.

Objective and written like a long time Bengals fan who still pays attention.

I brought up trading CJohnson to the Gmen to some of my friends that like them after they loss the playoff game and they didn't want any parts of CJohnson...

NOBODY wants any part of Chad. If Chad were a sitcom then he would have jumped the shark with that whole Ocho Cinco horse poop. Anyone remember the Chad Johnson who would fall asleep on the couch at PBS from watching game film all night? THAT Chad commands multiple 1st round picks.

But THIS Chad? "Ocho Cinco?" ...maybe a low 3rd rounder.

[GregCook]

Based on my experience with the Cincinnati Bengals, I see it going down like this:

They either tag TJ or let him walk, and they keep Chad.

Nice and easy.

Nice and inside the box, as usual.

Yeah, inertia is a powerful force in this franchise. I figure that TJ gets tagged, and he sits out OTAs (as usual) and eats some fines for skipping the mandatory minis as well. He does show up at camp, but pulls the "ow my hammy" act again and spends August jogging on the sidelines. Chad, of course, skips the OTAs too, though he flies out for the mandatories. But the bottom line is that between Palmer's elbow and TJ and Chad's contract issues, the three spend precious little time resolving the last two season's worth of passing game struggles, so the O is doomed to sputter early on next September.

Objective and written like a long time Bengals fan who still pays attention.

I brought up trading CJohnson to the Gmen to some of my friends that like them after they loss the playoff game and they didn't want any parts of CJohnson...

NOBODY wants any part of Chad. If Chad were a sitcom then he would have jumped the shark with that whole Ocho Cinco horse poop. Anyone remember the Chad Johnson who would fall asleep on the couch at PBS from watching game film all night? THAT Chad commands multiple 1st round picks.

But THIS Chad? "Ocho Cinco?" ...maybe a low 3rd rounder.

Really, no part of Chad? How is he different than TO, Pacman, or Deangelo Hall, Corey Dillon, and so many more that found active bidders for their services? I think lots of teams will be bottom feeders for his services...would love to have him for the right price. If Mike Brown can say the reason the team stunk in 08 is because the team was built around Odell, Pollack on defense even though years separated the team from both then he can delude himself endlessly on Chad's value. As for TJ, I can't see any reason for them to let him walk this season. Their best bet is to either sign him long term then auction Chad off to the highest bidder.

[Bearcat1975]

Really, no part of Chad? How is he different than TO, Pacman, or Deangelo Hall, Corey Dillon, and so many more that found active bidders for their services?

Maybe a guy like Jerry Jones takes a chance on Chad. But just about everyone else wants no part of Chad now.

I think lots of teams will be bottom feeders for his services...would love to have him for the right price.

Yep. It would have to be the right price though. No more 1st rounders for Chad, I'll tell you that.

If Mike Brown can say the reason the team stunk in 08 is because the team was built around Odell, Pollack on defense even though years separated the team from both then he can delude himself endlessly on Chad's value.

Yep. And he will, and he does. Which is why Mike Brown won't take any offers for Chad this offseason, just like last offseason.

As for TJ, I can't see any reason for them to let him walk this season. Their best bet is to either sign him long term then auction Chad off to the highest bidder.

Agreed. That being said, I look for them to tag TJ and sit on their hands about Chad.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Let T.J. go to the highest bidder and here's why:

First, he comes out and says that he wants "choices" and wants to go to a playoff team "like Big Willie did". That tells you that in his heart, he doesn't believe that the Bengals realistically have a chance next season or anytime soon. He says that he will talk to the Bengals after FA begins and every player that has ever left the Bengals has said that.....as a means to drive their own ticket price up.

Secondly, he is ONLY a possession receiver. He may be one of the better possession receivers in the league but he is not a game-changer, ala Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Plaxico, etc. T.J. thinks he is better than he really is and is very smart in what he says to the media regarding his age.

As the Justin and Andrews fiascos set the Bengals back at least 2 game-changing players, the Bengals need to move on with the receivers. Let's see what Caldwell, Simpson and Henry can do, otherwise they are all wasted high draft picks. With the 9-10 million you save in not Franchising T.J., sign a veteran C, a nickle cornerback or go all in for a player like Suggs, Haynesworth, Peppers or Gross. Not re-signing T.J. would also most likely net the Bengals a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2010. Instead of bringing T.J. back, I would personally like to see the Bengals sign the best FA pash rusher available and then go for one of the tackles in the first round.

[GregCook]

Let T.J. go to the highest bidder and here's why:

First, he comes out and says that he wants "choices" and wants to go to a playoff team "like Big Willie did". That tells you that in his heart, he doesn't believe that the Bengals realistically have a chance next season or anytime soon. He says that he will talk to the Bengals after FA begins and every player that has ever left the Bengals has said that.....as a means to drive their own ticket price up.

Secondly, he is ONLY a possession receiver. He may be one of the better possession receivers in the league but he is not a game-changer, ala Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Plaxico, etc. T.J. thinks he is better than he really is and is very smart in what he says to the media regarding his age.

As the Justin and Andrews fiascos set the Bengals back at least 2 game-changing players, the Bengals need to move on with the receivers. Let's see what Caldwell, Simpson and Henry can do, otherwise they are all wasted high draft picks. With the 9-10 million you save in not Franchising T.J., sign a veteran C, a nickle cornerback or go all in for a player like Suggs, Haynesworth, Peppers or Gross. Not re-signing T.J. would also most likely net the Bengals a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2010. Instead of bringing T.J. back, I would personally like to see the Bengals sign the best FA pash rusher available and then go for one of the tackles in the first round.

How do we auction TJ when he's not under contract? Is there such as thing as a sign and trade as in the NBA? Can we trade him after tagging him? Trading Chad is easier I think.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Let T.J. go to the highest bidder and here's why:

First, he comes out and says that he wants "choices" and wants to go to a playoff team "like Big Willie did". That tells you that in his heart, he doesn't believe that the Bengals realistically have a chance next season or anytime soon. He says that he will talk to the Bengals after FA begins and every player that has ever left the Bengals has said that.....as a means to drive their own ticket price up.

Secondly, he is ONLY a possession receiver. He may be one of the better possession receivers in the league but he is not a game-changer, ala Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Plaxico, etc. T.J. thinks he is better than he really is and is very smart in what he says to the media regarding his age.

As the Justin and Andrews fiascos set the Bengals back at least 2 game-changing players, the Bengals need to move on with the receivers. Let's see what Caldwell, Simpson and Henry can do, otherwise they are all wasted high draft picks. With the 9-10 million you save in not Franchising T.J., sign a veteran C, a nickle cornerback or go all in for a player like Suggs, Haynesworth, Peppers or Gross. Not re-signing T.J. would also most likely net the Bengals a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2010. Instead of bringing T.J. back, I would personally like to see the Bengals sign the best FA pash rusher available and then go for one of the tackles in the first round.

How do we auction TJ when he's not under contract? Is there such as thing as a sign and trade as in the NBA? Can we trade him after tagging him? Trading Chad is easier I think.

My hope is that he goes to the FA market and receives the highest contract possible. Contract value is a factor considered when the league awards compensatory picks and the Bengals may be in line to receive as high as a 3rd round pick in '10 in T.J. walks. In my opinion, this is what seperates consistent playoff teams for everyone elsel; They don't overpay for players, especially players who no longer want to be on those teams (see the Steelers with Faneca last year). They instead take the compensatory pick and build through the draft or find a less expensive replacement who fits their scheme (Jarrett Johnson for Adalius Thomas in Baltimore).

NFL teams typcially don't do "sign and trades" like the NBA, as a player's prorated signing bonus is factored into the team's payroll. This is part of the reason that the Bengals were unable to complete the Shaun Rogers deal initially, as the Lions wanted Cincinnati to eat a portion of his roster bonus. Instead, teams will attempt to negotiate a new deal with a player they are interested in acquiring prior to the trade, as the Cowboys did with Roy Williams.

The Bengals were involved in a trade that involved a Franchise tag, when they traded Dan Wilkinson to the Redskins for a 1st and 3rd round pick several years ago. I believe that pick was eventually used to draft Brian Simmons. The Vikings also pulled off a trade for Jared Allen last year after he was Franchised. It's unlikely that a team would value T.J. enough to offer a 1st round pick in a trade after he is Franchised and the Bengals failed to reach extensions with Andrews this year and Justin before him. All of those things considered, I would much rather the Bengals spend the 10 million guaranted that it might take to keep T.J. for one year on another impact player. He has already said that he wants to test the market, so there will be other teams interested. T.J. going to the Seahawks will hurt the Bengals because they would then not be looking at a receiver at #4 (Crabtree or Maclin, depending on how fast he runs) and might go for Curry or one of the OT's instead.

[HairOnFire]

My hope is that he goes to the FA market and receives the highest contract possible. Contract value is a factor considered when the league awards compensatory picks and the Bengals may be in line to receive as high as a 3rd round pick in '10 in T.J. walks.

Isn't it remarkable how often a star players greatest remaining value to the Bengals is based upon him becoming an ex-Bengal? Player after player eventually prices himself out of a future with THIS team, and the decision is deemed justified by almost everyone, in part, due to the teams lack of playoff hopes. In nearly every example the star player in question isn't capable of changing things around by himself, and if he won't agree to stay long-term the team can't justify a staggering one-year rent-as-you-go contract. And go they do, eventually, and in return the team gets a compensatory draft pick and the 4 year contract that comes with it.

[Jet23]

Like it or not, TJ WILL be tagged. There is just too much uncertainty with the young receivers. Princess Chad will be shopped, but Brown will f^ck it up like everything else. Our only hope is that Jerry Jones is sold on Chad being a TO light. I doubt that Jones would burn another 1, but I can see him giving the Bengals a 2, with a possible future pick (4-7) depending on performance.

[BengalPimp]

Who really knows what the head of Mike Brown holds?

I'm guessing .....Rocks...

[HAPPYJAQ]

My hope is that he goes to the FA market and receives the highest contract possible. Contract value is a factor considered when the league awards compensatory picks and the Bengals may be in line to receive as high as a 3rd round pick in '10 in T.J. walks.

Isn't it remarkable how often a star players greatest remaining value to the Bengals is based upon him becoming an ex-Bengal? Player after player eventually prices himself out of a future with THIS team, and the decision is deemed justified by almost everyone, in part, due to the teams lack of playoff hopes. In nearly every example the star player in question isn't capable of changing things around by himself, and if he won't agree to stay long-term the team can't justify a staggering one-year rent-as-you-go contract. And go they do, eventually, and in return the team gets a compensatory draft pick and the 4 year contract that comes with it.

A sad truth, indeed.

That said, these players simply don't want to be here, so why force them? They've probably seen their best individual days, anyway. It didn't work with Pickens, Dillon, Spikes, on down to Steinbach and now Chad and T.J. It is a priveledge to be one of about 200 players in the world that can call himself an NFL Wide Receiver. Let's get some players in here that care about the team, like Larry Fitzgerald and others around the league.

Until Mike Brown stops running the Cincinnati Bengals, all we as fans can hope for is a team that can somehow overcome all the negatives associated with the Bengals organization long enough to be competitive.

Another sad truth.