Why change anything?

[combatbengal]

Why are we complaining about the Bengals? We keep complaining through this site, through the newspapers, billboards, radio, television, etc and we haven’t gotten anything out of it. There have been threats of boycotts, leaving the Bengals bandwagon, etc and yet we stay. We’ve heard threats like, if this coach isn’t fired, if we don’t get a new GM, if we don’t change the course, etc, we’re not going to watch games any more. We’re not going to buy tickets; we’re not going to purchase our box seats, etc. When does the madness end?

I want to see the Bengals win as badly as everybody else. But three or four wins doesn’t amount to anything. We won three in a row at the end of the season which illustrates to MB that there isn't any need for change. The team is where they need to be and will improve next season with the same course, same coaches, and same players. Same thing happened last year. We won a few games at the end of the season and didn't do much to improve. We did bring in the Z man who has improved the def but that's where it stopped. We had one of the best offenses in the leagues a few years ago and now all of a sudden, they're the worst (with most of the same guys). We ended up with a better record than the Clowns did; big deal. They've already started cleaning house in hopes to improve. They got rid of their GM and HC. What have we done to this point? Nothing. TJ is our best asset (except for Palmer) on offense and we're screwing around by not signing him for more years. What's Chad done for us in the past two years? Nothing. So let's cut him. Nope, we need that cancer in the locker room and on the field, so we’ll keep him. I loved Chat and was a big supporter until he started all that crap last year, and because of the decrease of his performance.

I've always known this about football but K Johnson opened my eyes to it the other day during an interview. Most of us played Pop Warner/youth football for fun. Some of us played high school and college football for the same reason. But when guy reach the NFL level, it's all business and about money. You see some unbelievable hits and tackles in just about every game in college. Then guys get to the Bengals and somehow forget the fundamentals to those skills that were learned early on. To afraid to get hurt; that's their meal ticket. Chad knows that you catch the ball with your hands and yet he's got to receive remedial training on the sidelines from TJ on how to catch with your hands and not your body. Guys know that you hit low and wrap a guy up to make a tackle and yet when they get to the big leagues, they think that they can make the tackle by throwing their body into a guy or pushing him. The NFL doesn't use the option because they pay QB's too much and can't afford an injury to their investment.

So, we stay the course, and cheer for the same results year after year. The seats are bought out every game, MB is making money, and the players are cashing their pay checks so why should we expect any changes. After all, we did finish a head of the Clown's. That's the substandard level that we've set for ourselves. So we live with it. No matter how poor of a performance they display, money will be made because we the fans support it. You can disagree all you want, but year after year, you’re hear cheering and then complaining.

We see what other teams have done in the past and yet we settle for low standards. The Fins went 1-15 last year. In the off season, they hired a new GM, new coaches, signed new players and BAM, they’re division champs this year! Why can’t we take a page or two from that book?

We talk about the upcoming draft and try to speculate who we should pick and what we need. One guy isn’t going to change this for us! The entire organization needs a face lift but don’t expect it!

[HoTbOy]

Well just my perspective, I have been a Bengals fan as I know alot of other posters here have been for a long time, for me since 75' they were the first team I ever saw on tv and they were my team ever since,I have seen this team go to 2 SB's and to many playoffs games, I have also seen all the losing over the years, and what I've seen this year from the team, they do seem to want to play not like alot of the 90's team who only wanted the $...Year after year I hope that someone gets it, because they did get it before after all we did go to 2 SB's, with the Brown family running the show...I know that they probably will never have a GM, I also hope that they will continue to make at least some coaching changes until they get the 1 who can teach, because that is really the only way they are going to get better is by coaching, MBrown is not going to change so I have learned to except that, we can boycott games, not watch on tv, and so and so on, but if you are a real fan you are still going to care...Like I said i hope that enough noise is made where there are coaching changes, because that is the only way we are going to get better is by trying to get better coaching becuase right now MBrown is not getting it...

[Clackwoods]

Why are we complaining about the Bengals? We keep complaining through this site, through the newspapers, billboards, radio, television, etc and we haven’t gotten anything out of it. There have been threats of boycotts, leaving the Bengals bandwagon, etc and yet we stay. We’ve heard threats like, if this coach isn’t fired, if we don’t get a new GM, if we don’t change the course, etc, we’re not going to watch games any more. We’re not going to buy tickets; we’re not going to purchase our box seats, etc. When does the madness end?

I want to see the Bengals win as badly as everybody else. But three or four wins doesn’t amount to anything. We won three in a row at the end of the season which illustrates to MB that there isn't any need for change. The team is where they need to be and will improve next season with the same course, same coaches, and same players. Same thing happened last year. We won a few games at the end of the season and didn't do much to improve. We did bring in the Z man who has improved the def but that's where it stopped. We had one of the best offenses in the leagues a few years ago and now all of a sudden, they're the worst (with most of the same guys). We ended up with a better record than the Clowns did; big deal. They've already started cleaning house in hopes to improve. They got rid of their GM and HC. What have we done to this point? Nothing. TJ is our best asset (except for Palmer) on offense and we're screwing around by not signing him for more years. What's Chad done for us in the past two years? Nothing. So let's cut him. Nope, we need that cancer in the locker room and on the field, so we’ll keep him. I loved Chat and was a big supporter until he started all that crap last year, and because of the decrease of his performance.

I've always known this about football but K Johnson opened my eyes to it the other day during an interview. Most of us played Pop Warner/youth football for fun. Some of us played high school and college football for the same reason. But when guy reach the NFL level, it's all business and about money. You see some unbelievable hits and tackles in just about every game in college. Then guys get to the Bengals and somehow forget the fundamentals to those skills that were learned early on. To afraid to get hurt; that's their meal ticket. Chad knows that you catch the ball with your hands and yet he's got to receive remedial training on the sidelines from TJ on how to catch with your hands and not your body. Guys know that you hit low and wrap a guy up to make a tackle and yet when they get to the big leagues, they think that they can make the tackle by throwing their body into a guy or pushing him. The NFL doesn't use the option because they pay QB's too much and can't afford an injury to their investment.

So, we stay the course, and cheer for the same results year after year. The seats are bought out every game, MB is making money, and the players are cashing their pay checks so why should we expect any changes. After all, we did finish a head of the Clown's. That's the substandard level that we've set for ourselves. So we live with it. No matter how poor of a performance they display, money will be made because we the fans support it. You can disagree all you want, but year after year, you’re hear cheering and then complaining.

We see what other teams have done in the past and yet we settle for low standards. The Fins went 1-15 last year. In the off season, they hired a new GM, new coaches, signed new players and BAM, they’re division champs this year! Why can’t we take a page or two from that book?

We talk about the upcoming draft and try to speculate who we should pick and what we need. One guy isn’t going to change this for us! The entire organization needs a face lift but don’t expect it!

I feel your pain, the fact that we don't have a GM is dumb, but hey, at least we don't have Al Davis running the show! We have had a lot of misfortune with injuries and draft pick injuries as of late. I agree that we are only a couple pieces away which is what we were in 2004. We picked up a couple solid players and we won the division. Their are some major differences between us and the dolphins from last year that you are forgetting.

Dolphins had 2 MVP type running backs that were hurt last year!

Dolphins had the one of the easiest schedules in the NFL.

Dolphins robbed two starters from the cowboys.

Dolphins had a big money free agent sack master at OLB who was playing out of position last year!

The Dolphins had a great draft. They got a franchise LT and a great DE (Merling) who checked out as a first rounder but slipped because of injuries.

They also got a good QB to run their team which we have we just need to get back.

It would take a lot for us to get as many pieces as the dolphins in one year, but I dont think we need it. We have a good young defense, a franchise QB, a good recieving corps with or without TJ. We need one defensive player, a tackle, and another RB to go with Benson and we will be fine.

[combatbengal]

The difference is that the fins made changes to improve the team. We haven't. Even when Palmer was in there at the beginning, they couldn't move the ball. So, no changes, no improvements!

[GregCook]

The difference is that the fins made changes to improve the team. We haven't. Even when Palmer was in there at the beginning, they couldn't move the ball. So, no changes, no improvements!

The other issue is the high number of injuries this team has had over two years, especially to their high draft pick guys: Chris Perry, Pollack, Irons, Rivers. That has to change before the wins will start flowing. They will also have to figure out how to play with new WR's since Chad doesn't have his heart in the game anymore and TJ will sulk next season and stay away from as much of the training sessions as possible if he is franchised. Look how that worked this year, 0-4 before either was physically ready to perform.

Player changes are a given with 3 new Olinemen, new WR possibly.

[Kazkal]

The difference is that the fins made changes to improve the team. We haven't. Even when Palmer was in there at the beginning, they couldn't move the ball. So, no changes, no improvements!

The other issue is the high number of injuries this team has had over two years, especially to their high draft pick guys: Chris Perry, Pollack, Irons, Rivers. That has to change before the wins will start flowing. They will also have to figure out how to play with new WR's since Chad doesn't have his heart in the game anymore and TJ will sulk next season and stay away from as much of the training sessions as possible if he is franchised. Look how that worked this year, 0-4 before either was physically ready to perform.

Player changes are a given with 3 new Olinemen, new WR possibly.

Injurys have been pretty bad longer then 2 years...our training staff is horrible.

[HoosierCat]

Injurys have been pretty bad longer then 2 years...our training staff is horrible.

No argument, but a lot of the injuries -- Pollack, Rivers, Irons, Carson this year, Perry's busted leg -- can't be attributed to poor conditioning.

[HairOnFire]

They will also have to figure out how to play with new WR's since Chad doesn't have his heart in the game anymore and TJ will sulk next season and stay away from as much of the training sessions as possible if he is franchised.

It's funny, when I told you guys Chad would tank this season I was told he'd be fine. Same old Chad. And when I said he'd meltdown again I was told he wouldn't, apparently because he ain't the same old Chad no more. And I'm telling you now if the Bengals tag TJ he won't sulk and his numbers won't crash.

Because TJ's not Chad, and you should know that by now.

[ArmyBengal]

Agree with Hair here... I'm still in the F*CK YOU CHAD mode and would love to see him traded and get whatever we can for his services while holding on to TJ, who is more worthy the money than Chad (Well, at this point in their careers at least)...

[combatbengal]

I agree. TJ will man up and play/ Nobody wants Chad after two years of piss poor performance.

[cincy9275]

Injurys have been pretty bad longer then 2 years...our training staff is horrible.

No argument, but a lot of the injuries -- Pollack, Rivers, Irons, Carson this year, Perry's busted leg -- can't be attributed to poor conditioning.

you right, but the other what 50 some players that have been IR'ED in the past 3 years beg to differ. not sure if it's 50, but it is still way to many.

[HoosierCat]

Injurys have been pretty bad longer then 2 years...our training staff is horrible.

No argument, but a lot of the injuries -- Pollack, Rivers, Irons, Carson this year, Perry's busted leg -- can't be attributed to poor conditioning.

you right, but the other what 50 some players that have been IR'ED in the past 3 years beg to differ. not sure if it's 50, but it is still way to many.

I agree, but laying the blame solely at the feet of the training staff ignores other, even larger problems.

Would I look at turning over the training staff? Yeah, definitely. The Bengals do seem to get more than their share of preventable muscle pulls and tears, which speaks to conditioning issues. But as anyone who watched the Arizona-Atlanta game last weekend saw, sh*t does happen. Boldin does nothing more than catch the ball and run to the end zone...and comes up lame with a hammy injury. Poor conditioning? Bad luck? I dunno.

I'm more concerned with the Bengals' habit of signing and tolerating continually injured players. If you look at who's getting hurt every year, it tends to be a lot of the same guys. Oh, Dexter Jackson was hurt again? Shoot, he hasn't played a full season since 2003! How many missed games before Perry gets the boot? Hype Henderson saw the field twice in three years. Antonio Chatman is always hurt. In three years, he's missed 22 games. Mike Brown said late last year they were counting on Pollack to return. Are you sh*tting me? Even if David decided to resume his football career, he was always dinged up, too -- hammy, foot, whatever. Levi has missed 17 games over the last three years, and doesn't appear to be improving. Joseph has missed 9 games in three seasons -- when he isn't playing hobbled. Ndukwe has missed 7 games in two seasons. Jeanty? 10 games in three seasons with the club.

I like some of these players. Joseph and Nduke in particular I'm not ready to give up on yet, and Jeanty is one tough SOB. But I don't care how much talent you have, it's worthless sitting on the bench.

[HairOnFire]

Would I look at turning over the training staff? Yeah, definitely. The Bengals do seem to get more than their share of preventable muscle pulls and tears, which speaks to conditioning issues.

Agreed. One of the most interesting things to me is how quickly things changed. When Lewis arrived they dumped the previous strength coach and announced they were changing to a conditioning program that focused on the body core instead of the extremities. In quick order the number of serious injuries fell remarkably.

What changed?

[HoosierCat]

What changed?

As far as I can tell, nothing. They did apparently bring in some guy named Nick Cosgrove as an assistant trainer and director of rehab a couple years ago, but I have trouble believing one assistant is responsible for blowing up a whole program.

On thing that does strike me is that the increase in injuries came after everything fell apart post-2005. And when I look at the list of Bengals (and former Bengals) who had various hammy/muscle injuries in camp and during the season, who do you see but all the guys who blew off the offseason conditioning program: Chad, TJ, Levi, Willie and Rudi.

As fans, we always look at injuries and talk about how the contributed to a poor season, but we rarely talk about how poor seasons lead some guys to slack off or adopt some different and maybe less effective conditioning program, so you end up with this vicious circle of injuries and poor results.

[gregstephens]

They will also have to figure out how to play with new WR's since Chad doesn't have his heart in the game anymore and TJ will sulk next season and stay away from as much of the training sessions as possible if he is franchised.

It's funny, when I told you guys Chad would tank this season I was told he'd be fine. Same old Chad. And when I said he'd meltdown again I was told he wouldn't, apparently because he ain't the same old Chad no more. And I'm telling you now if the Bengals tag TJ he won't sulk and his numbers won't crash.

Because TJ's not Chad, and you should know that by now.

I agree completely. You watch the past four seasons and even when Fredo was putting up big numbers, he and TJ aren't the same type of player. Fredo has ALWAYS had problems with drops and taking hits, especially in clutch situations. Everybody overlooked those, however, because he was putting up 1,400 yards while only scoring 6 touchdowns per season.

TJ, on the other hand, plays hard and at one hundred percent all the time. That's why he usually had less yards than Fredo, but more scores and more first down conversion catches. Yards don't mean anything in the NFL if you aren't moving the chains or scoring.

Because of TJ's personality in the game, I don't think he'll bag the season with a tag. He may be very quiet, even more so than usual, and not very happy, but he'll do his job. Wasn't that a team logo a few years ago?