Jet23 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I don't agree. I think SOP succumbed to pressure when he went outside the Organization to hire Lewis. So, is that the same kind of fan pressure SoP succumbed to when he went outside of the organization to hire the Shula pup? If so, well done.Although I wish I had no recall when it comes to Dave Shula, I do believe he was a Bengals assistant coach for one season, prior to being handed the HC gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combatbengal Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I have the solution to the problems with the Bengals. Fans want to see a new GM. They want to see a real scouting staff, new management, new positive attitude, etc. Hamilton County fit the bill for the new stadium, right? Then let’s try to pass a levy or something to where the county buys out the Brown family. Let the county or city own and operate the Bengals. That would provide additional employment for the city, we’ll be able to hire someone who has great football knowledge. experience, etc. I know, you think I’m crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 How can you truly believe that the locker-room isn't affected by the fan's opinions or faith in the front office??Well... lets take a look at the two teams you previously mentioned as having a culture of winning.The Colts: ..... Clearly the fans in Indianapolis had no reason to believe in a culture of winning - but the players did. Why? Because they had nothing to do with the franchise in the 80's and 90's.The Patriots: ... and then Parcells moved on to the Jets and the keys were handed to Belichick. Their culture of winning was created by two men... not a fan base that kept on believing - because prior to those two men, there was nothing to believe in.the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Perhaps no team in NFL history had a more obvious culture of losing than this team. I think they had a total of 2 winning seasons in their history prior to Tony Dungy... including 14 straight losing seasons directly prior to his hiring. Then they had 5 playoff appearances in the next 6 years. Why? Because the fanbase decided that it was a winning franchise? No because men like Tony Dungy said that team history is bulls**t.The Bengals are no different. The men in that locker room might believe they suck and know they are fighting uphill every week... but it isn't because of some long standing culture of losing. It is because the team is poorly managed and the locker room is full of me first people.I believe that if the right men have power, this team can create a culture of winning just as well as the three teams mentioned above.Derek, we'll have to agree to disagree. when you say: The men in that locker room might believe they suck and know they are fighting uphill every week... that, to me, is an indication of a losing culture. In the NFL, if you ain't winnin' your losin'.Let's look at our 3 test cases compared to the Bengals:New England Patriots- did only 'ok' in the 90's - 1 div crown under Tuna ('96) and 1 w/ Pete Carroll ('97)- Tuna was only 34-34 as coach, Pete Carroll had losing record 2 out of 3 years- LOTS of player misbehavior & prima donnas- in 2000 hired Bill Belichick as HC & Scott Pioli as personnel director- in 2000 they cleaned house - position coaches, co-ordinators, etc- promoted Scott Pioli in 2001 to head of NFL operations - changed over scouting dept & FO- since then, have averaged 11 wins per seasonIndianapolis Colts- Jim Irsay takes over after 20 years of misery in 1996- this was the franchise nobody wanted to be drafted by (Jeff George)- Hires Bill & Chris Polian in 97- Polians clean house ("the Axe-Men")- Hires Jim Mora to instill discipline, then Tony Dungy to take them to next level- 7 straight playoff appearances, and only missed once in last 10 yearsTampa Bay Bucs- Glazers overpay for almost bankrupt team- install new F.O. personnel - immediately fire Sam Wyche & crew and hire Tony Dungy- make playoffs 5 of next 7 years on the strength of "D"- replace Tony Dungy with Jon Gruden in 2002 (again over-paying) - Super Bowl winners after 2002, playoffs in '03- replace GM McKay (who fought w/ Gruden) with GM Allen - kind of mediocre now (every other year) The common area's - the fans had pretty much given up on the teams (even in Boston where sports is a religion), they had little or no direction, and a comprehensive change took place in both the front office and coaching staffs. They drafted franchise players at the first opportunity (Manning, Brady, and Tampa's D drafted Nickerson and Derek Brooks). They had a vision and stayed true to it. And the fans bought in to it, as did the players.Cincinnati Bengals- no GM- Mikey takes over and doesn't change anything in FO- finally hires Marvin, but retains 75% of position coaches (Brat, Anderson, Cioffi, Alexander, etc)- Marvin brings in his own marginal coaches (Hayes brothers, Morton, Simmons) - get their franchise QB in 2003- one winning season in last 18 yearsI'm not buying this, the rest of the country's not buying this, so why do you think our current players are buying this? Because they have to?Dude, in your VERY WELL ORGANIZED comparative summary of these teams, and I do mean very well organized as that was very well done, you did forget one other crucial piece in the Colts' twenty years of misery--John Elway. That cultural was so bad in the early eighties Elway said screw this and trade me or I'll play baseball instead. That has to go in your otherwise thorough highlite reel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Dude, in your VERY WELL ORGANIZED comparative summary of these teams, and I do mean very well organized as that was very well done, you did forget one other crucial piece in the Colts' twenty years of misery--John Elway. That cultural was so bad in the early eighties Elway said screw this and trade me or I'll play baseball instead. That has to go in your otherwise thorough highlite reel.Nice point. Also, Eli Manning refusing to go to the Chargers. They hadn't had a winning season in 10 years, and Manning gave a big "f**k You" to the team suggesting that they would never have a chance to play for a championship. Obviously that culture of losing didn't resonate with the players in the locker room, because they went 12-4 that same year.I suppose you could argue that Elway and Manning bought into that culture of losing prior to ever stepping into the locker room - but it's also clear that the culture of losing was nothing more than history in the minds of most of the players on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passepartout Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Maybe the Gods were great to EliAnd he ended up with the Giants.Guess what happened last year?! Super Bowl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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