I know we won....but.....

[HoosierCat]

It's the o-line, not the QB.

Uhhh, it's the O-line, and the QB, and the RB's, and the WR's, and probably a dozen other things.

And anyone who thinks it's just one thing is a very special kind of stupid.

Don't be that guy.

Hey, I'm not the one in this thread focusing on one player.

Just sayin'.

[HairOnFire]

Hey, I'm not the one in this thread focusing on one player.

Just sayin'.

No, you're the guy busy making excuses for one player. A player who has performed very very poorly until the last game.

Furthermore, the thread isn't about one player...it's about one position. A backup position that, due to a complete lack of preperation, was entirely incapable of performing at a competent level for weeks and months. And amazingly, even with the benefit of perfect hindsight, you still can't bring yourself to admit the lack of preperation mattered at all. And that's on you.

Let's move on.

It wasn't my intent to refight old battles with posters who want to play out their losing hands until the bitter end. Instead, I was attempting to point out how the Bengals have now paid the full price for the lack of preperation, and for better or worse that particular problem no longer exists. Fitzpatrick is finally in a position where he can manage the game and run the offense well enough to be marginally competitive. And as a result I believe a change in QB's now would be remarkably counterproductive....even if it means temporarily settling for a backup player incapable of making all the throws you want from a starting QB.

[HoosierCat]

A backup position that, due to a complete lack of preperation, was entirely incapable of performing at a competent level for weeks and months.

Had the guy who was the starter at that position, beneficiary of years of not just preparation but actual game experience, been effective and his backup not, you might have a point. As it is, though, there's no evidence that any amount of preparation or experience made any difference. In fact, the tale told by this season is exactly the opposite: that whether the Bengals fielded an experienced, veteran, elite QB, or a journeyman backup, made no difference, because no QB can succeed when your line has its collective head permanently inserted in its collective ass, your backs can't gain yards and your tight ends can't pick up a blitz to save their lives.

[HairOnFire]

Had the guy who was the starter at that position, beneficiary of years of not just preparation but actual game experience, been effective and his backup not, you might have a point. As it is, though, there's no evidence that any amount of preparation or experience made any difference.

You seem intent on hiding behind the Bengals going winless in September and October as some sort of proof that all of their players are equally inept and any one is just as good as any other. In fact, your rant boils down to this. Palmer didn't win. Fitzpatrick didn't win. Thus, they offer exactly the same chance to win. None.

Quite frankly, I'd say the only thing missing from your rant is a musical soundtrack featuring caliopes and banjos.

Oh, and there is plenty of evidence that preparation might have produced better results. For example, the things we saw with our own eyes for six weeks. But since your eyes can't be trusted you might consider other sources. Like the announcers from the Jag game referring to remarks made by Bengal coaches about Fitzpatrick being unprepared to process what he was seeing on the field for...wait for it.....a month a half.

So, do you think that utter failure might have been lessened or even eliminated if Fitzpatrick had been given even a single regular season snap prior to this season? Or are you going to claim yet AGAIN that a little playing experience wouldn't have mattered at all?

Yeah, of course that's exactly what you'll claim. Because that's exactly what you were claiming months ago....back in the day when you were leading the "Why not the Bengals in the playoffs" charge.

Cue the banjos, ehh?

[HoosierCat]

Palmer didn't win. Fitzpatrick didn't win. Thus, they offer exactly the same chance to win. None.

With the rest of the offense playing like it has been? Yes, exactly.

[BengalPimp]

So save the rant about how no quarterback could have fared better,

It's not a rant, just the facts. Again, how did Palmer -- who did know the playbook backward and forward and could process all he was seeing on the field -- fare? Let's see...busted nose, busted elbow, zero wins, and a couple of the worst performances of his career.

It's the o-line, not the QB.

And swirling hurricane winds the first 2 games, thanks to Ike

[HairOnFire]

Palmer didn't win. Fitzpatrick didn't win. Thus, they offer exactly the same chance to win. None.

With the rest of the offense playing like it has been? Yes, exactly.

You may now picture me pointing and laughing at you.

That said, we move on.

[preyer]

huh, so this is where maddox has been hiding himself, belittling people on a bengals message board.

let's see, the argument here, as i understand it, is to give jordan some snaps since the season is shot, the idea being that fitz will be gone next year and jordan will be the back-up? *or*... keep fitz in the rest of the season and watch him improve to the point where the bengals might keep him as back-up?

well, hm.... who's the future of the QB position? it's a moot question as carson has so many years left, and barring some catastrophic injury or a change of venue for some reason, it seems as if he'll finish out the productive years of his football life as a bengal. say he stays just three more years (just making that estimate up), that's too long for a starter calibre QB to stand on the sidelines. in other words, if jordan is starter material, he's not going to replace carson, but nor is he going to hang out in cincinnati any longer than he has to. so my question is, why put him in now and essentially train him to be your near future competition, knowing that he'll be gone the first chance he gets?

i'll say right now that if jordan has a the ability to be an elite QB (i don't know about that, just theorizing here), it's a bad idea to expect him, or anyone for that matter, to play back-up unless you know your starter is apt to fly or retire soon. that's not the case here: carson isn't going anywhere, nor is he anywhere near retirement. so unless you figure on jordan never being more than a back-up, i don't know why his name is even being bandied about except out of some curiosity-based 'let's see how the kid does.' unless carson isn't able to play the next season, there's no real reason to play jordan now. sure, i'm curious, too, and i think he absolutely should get some snaps if the game opportunities arise for exactly the same reason hot-head here thinks fitz should have gotten some, but if jordan isn't the future of this team or likely to become the full-time back-up, what's the point?

will cincy keep fitz? depends on fitz and how he improves, doesn't it? if all you look at is the win/loss column here, that's absurd. i think we all agree he's no wunderkind, but that's not what a back-up is supposed to be, is it? were he that good, he'd be a starter somewhere else. since he's not a guy in his vanity years, either, and given the challenges dished out, how much better can a back-up be? i think he's made enough of an improvement to consider keeping him as *back-up* next year.

so, in my simple way of reasoning, here's the options:

given the idea that jordan is starter material, he's not going to replace carson. giving him field experience over your real back-up, which you may need next year, just so he can parlay that into a starter or, more likely i think, a back-up position somewhere else doesn't make much sense. just give the kid the snaps he can get and be happy with that. if jordan is any good, i honestly don't know what he's doing on this team. than again, he could suck, and in which case he's placed appropriately, no?

or let fitz ride out the rest of his year and improve along the way. no one's is going to offer him a starter position. i mean, honestly, he's not a great QB ~ he's rather a doofus, imo. BUT, that's not to say he can't be made into a great back-up, a guy who's job isn't to carry a team the entire season as much as to make sure it doesn't all fall apart when he's called upon. i'd look for the steelers' back-up to be given a starter positon somewhere way before fitz.

personally, i'd keep fitz in and opt for keeping him as a damn good solid back-up guy for next year as opposed to playing jordan, who, imo, is too high-profile to make third string and leads to conversations like this. were he virtually anyone else other than carson palmer's brother we wouldn't be having this topic, right? but now he's another shining example of coaching/managerial ineptitude in the eyes of a lot of people, and that's ridiculous. after defending the coaches/management staff just now, i feel as if i need a shower.

and i always thought kitna was a bum. if he had hands bigger than a ten year old girl's he might have been a really decent QB, but he don't, and he ain't. still, they say he brings amazing leadership skills, and that accounts for something in my book. well, he does throw some balls every now and then as far as i can tell.

[Kazkal]

Seemed like we were pretty ferked before season started but with carson in does increase our chances to win "shrug"

[BengalPimp]

Well, Noodle-arm Fitzpatrick strikes again....This time a "Whopping" 5.9 yards per attempt...LMFAO

At least its an improvement from his season average of 5.1 yards per attempt.........For those of you keeping track at home...still the lowest/worst among any starting QB in the league.

[HoosierCat]

Well, Noodle-arm Fitzpatrick strikes again....This time a "Whopping" 5.9 yards per attempt...LMFAO

Yeah, and "noodle-arm" Palmer averaged 5.7 yards in four games.

Again: the problem's not the QB.

[gregstephens]

Well, Noodle-arm Fitzpatrick strikes again....This time a "Whopping" 5.9 yards per attempt...LMFAO

At least its an improvement from his season average of 5.1 yards per attempt.........For those of you keeping track at home...still the lowest/worst among any starting QB in the league.

'Noodle-arm's' numbers would have been slightly better if Chris Henry hadn't dropped every pass thrown to him. He dropped at least three that I can think of that were at least 15-20 yards.

Besides, I think he did a much better job this past Sunday of zipping his passes in. He had more velocity and acually seemed more accurate as he was threading some of those needles to T.J.