TJ's Hard to Get Act?

[HoosierCat]

It has nothing to do with a contract. He probably started considering it because the bengals brought in so many rookie WRs and he figures it would be good to have a veteran presence around for some leadership.

Uh-huh. Tell me, Joe, do you believe in the tooth fairy, too? Call me cynical, but I suspect TJ's "dilemma" has a lot more to do with the fact that the Bengals, in all likelihood, just drafted (or signed as a CFA) his replacement. What was looking like a cushy setup for a big payday from Cincy -- Henry gone, Tab gone, Chad being Chad, what choice did they have? -- has just evaporated. Instead you have the head coach publicly casting doubt on his future here. So yeah, looking like a veteran leader just got a lot more important, because he doesn't want to go in FA next March with a rep as a guy who actually takes the offseason off.

[skyline]

It has nothing to do with a contract. He probably started considering it because the bengals brought in so many rookie WRs and he figures it would be good to have a veteran presence around for some leadership.

Uh-huh. Tell me, Joe, do you believe in the tooth fairy, too? Call me cynical, but I suspect TJ's "dilemma" has a lot more to do with the fact that the Bengals, in all likelihood, just drafted (or signed as a CFA) his replacement. What was looking like a cushy setup for a big payday from Cincy -- Henry gone, Tab gone, Chad being Chad, what choice did they have? -- has just evaporated. Instead you have the head coach publicly casting doubt on his future here. So yeah, looking like a veteran leader just got a lot more important, because he doesn't want to go in FA next March with a rep as a guy who actually takes the offseason off.

I'd say the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It's naive to say that money plays no role in his decision, but I'm also not going to assume the worst. There's no reason for TJ to suffer for Chad's mistakes.

[JoePong]

It has nothing to do with a contract. He probably started considering it because the bengals brought in so many rookie WRs and he figures it would be good to have a veteran presence around for some leadership.

Uh-huh. Tell me, Joe, do you believe in the tooth fairy, too? Call me cynical, but I suspect TJ's "dilemma" has a lot more to do with the fact that the Bengals, in all likelihood, just drafted (or signed as a CFA) his replacement. What was looking like a cushy setup for a big payday from Cincy -- Henry gone, Tab gone, Chad being Chad, what choice did they have? -- has just evaporated.

Again, just plain stupid. TJ is looking at a big payday either from the bengals or another team when he hits free agency (or at least what a 30 year old WR can expect). Whether he stays in California and works out or attends some voluntary workouts here will make no difference whatsoever in what he gets paid. You are really reaching.

[HoosierCat]

Again, just plain stupid. TJ is looking at a big payday either from the bengals or another team when he hits free agency (or at least what a 30 year old WR can expect). Whether he stays in California and works out or attends some voluntary workouts here will make no difference whatsoever in what he gets paid. You are really reaching.

Well, which is it, a "big payday" or "what a 30 year old WR can expect"? Left yourself quite a bit of wiggle room there, Joe. Considering that he'll be 32, not 30, in September of 2009, and that there are plenty of people who question how much of his success is due to Chad being on the other side of the field drawing double coverage, I think that big payday is far from assured. And questions about his commitment, due to skipping the offseason program, aren't going to help his case. Reaching? I think not.

[HAPPYJAQ]

It has nothing to do with a contract. He probably started considering it because the bengals brought in so many rookie WRs and he figures it would be good to have a veteran presence around for some leadership.

Uh-huh. Tell me, Joe, do you believe in the tooth fairy, too? Call me cynical, but I suspect TJ's "dilemma" has a lot more to do with the fact that the Bengals, in all likelihood, just drafted (or signed as a CFA) his replacement. What was looking like a cushy setup for a big payday from Cincy -- Henry gone, Tab gone, Chad being Chad, what choice did they have? -- has just evaporated.

Again, just plain stupid. TJ is looking at a big payday either from the bengals or another team when he hits free agency (or at least what a 30 year old WR can expect). Whether he stays in California and works out or attends some voluntary workouts here will make no difference whatsoever in what he gets paid. You are really reaching.

Marvin has said that it will be difficult to re-sign T.J. this year, bracing Bengals fans for what will likely be his last season in stripes. Even if you Franchise tag him, you guaranteeing 10 million plus to a 31-year old receiver, which the Bengals obviously have reservations about. As much as I love having T.J, as a Bengal, I wouldn't cry about him leaving. If you can't resign him long-term, you can't Franchise him, either. You then have a QB, RB, 2 T's and 2 WR's paid at or near the top 10 at their positions ON OFFENSE. Here's a pretty decent link to NFL salaries last year:

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...on.aspx?pos=122

I like to consider the fact that, going into last season, the only player that most casual NFL fans could name at WR for the Green Bay Packers is Donald Driver. He ended up having a near career year last year, nearing 40 years old. On the other hand, the Patriots had a receiver who set the record for most touchdowns in a season and another receiver that led the league in catches (alongside T.J.) and STILL couldn't win the Super Bowl. The Giants won it with an injured Steelers cast off, a 33-year old washed up possession receiver, a career special teamer with 4 career touchdowns and a rookie at WR. I trust that Carson will be able to make the passing game work regardless of the receivers he throws to in what is the most overrated position in the NFL.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

He didn't show up last year. This year, he's considering it because he thinks it might be good for the team. That seems to me to kill the contract angle.

And he started to consider it when? It suddenly became a dilemma when?

This is all about his next contract.

Except he's doing the *opposite* of what guys do when they're angling for a contract. Without belaboring this much more, do you have any actual evidence here or are you reading tea leaves? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt without proof, and I think your case is weak, counsellor.

As far as contract-year drama goes, this is like a kid rebelling against his parents by going to the library.

[Jet23]

I think the TJ contract situation is going to get ugly and the Bengals know it. No way are they going to franchise..........I take that back, no way SHOULD they franchise a 30-year old possession receiver. I like TJ as much as the next guy, but let's face it. If Brat had a clue how to use a TE, TJ's touches would be cut in half. TJ fancies himself a stretch the field type of receiver. The rest of the world begs to differ. He is a very nice receiver, but he is not a #1 (see Peerless Price).

Carson made sure TJ won (shared) the receptions title. In the end, it may end up costing him TJ. Housh. is unrealistic about his talents. He is going to want 'big time' money. I agree with Hoosier, TJ tends to get a free pass, because he is out drama queened by Princess Chad. He's pretty high maintenance as well.

It's time to rethink the offense. Focus on the run and outlet passes to DDD and Perry (assuming he's healthy). Let TJ take 60 receptions into free agency.

[HAPPYJAQ]

T.J. is one of my all-time favorite Bengals players. I love the fact that he continues to play with a chip on his shoulder from being a 7th round selection, despite his success and Pro Bowl selection this year. I've even read somewhere that he has memorized the names of every WR drafted ahead of him and uses that as his motivation when playing against all the other teams that bypassed him. On top of that, he has displayed loyalty in re-signing with the Bengals when other teams (including the Steelers) offered him more money when he hit free-agency in '04. He took the home team discount on an at best average team at the time, when he could have gone to a contender for more cash. I think he deserves a 4-year extension but I don't think the Bengals will honor him for the time he has served in being loyal and a team player. I can remember a time that he was talked about many of the same ways that Chris Perry is talked about now and battled through the injuries to become a star NFL WR. If we don't resign him, there will be MANY teams fighting for his services and he knows that.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

No way are they going to franchise..........I take that back, no way SHOULD they franchise a 30-year old possession receiver.

This is the Bengals. How do you feel about franchising a backup guard at left-tackle money?

I do agree he's not a prototype #1 receiver. He needs to play opposite a field-stretcher. His sideline technique is atrocious. But at the same time, if I absolutely have to have a first down and everybody past 10 yards is covered, I'll dump it off to TJ short of the sticks and be confident he'll pick up the first. I don't know anybody who's better at it.

I just don't get the TJ hate all of a sudden. While we're at it, that Carson Palmer's a bum. Terrible haircut.

[HoosierCat]

Except he's doing the *opposite* of what guys do when they're angling for a contract.

Not if they think think their next contract will be with another team. The best option for TJ now is to come in, work hard, and head into FA in 2009 with the fewest possible negatives in his record. And let's face it, the number of wideouts the Bengals have amassed points to Housh playing someplace else next year.

Without belaboring this much more, do you have any actual evidence here or are you reading tea leaves? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt without proof, and I think your case is weak, counsellor.

Actual evidence of what, that TJ went from, I won't be there to maybe I will be after all? That would be his own words. As for why, well, what's more likely, that his "veteran leadership gene" suddenly kicked in -- or that he saw the Bengals load up at wideout in the draft and CFA and concluded his situation had changed?

[HoosierCat]

T.J. is one of my all-time favorite Bengals players. I love the fact that he continues to play with a chip on his shoulder from being a 7th round selection, despite his success and Pro Bowl selection this year. I've even read somewhere that he has memorized the names of every WR drafted ahead of him and uses that as his motivation when playing against all the other teams that bypassed him. On top of that, he has displayed loyalty in re-signing with the Bengals when other teams (including the Steelers) offered him more money when he hit free-agency in '04. He took the home team discount on an at best average team at the time, when he could have gone to a contender for more cash. I think he deserves a 4-year extension but I don't think the Bengals will honor him for the time he has served in being loyal and a team player. I can remember a time that he was talked about many of the same ways that Chris Perry is talked about now and battled through the injuries to become a star NFL WR. If we don't resign him, there will be MANY teams fighting for his services and he knows that.

Hey, I have no problem with TJ on the field and if the Bengals chose to re-up him I would not complain. But he's begun to wear on me the same way Willie Anderson did a few years back. They're both guys who could do with a healthy dose of STFU pills. Did we really need TJ this year following up Chad's threat to sit out with his own announcement that he'd be hanging in California all offseason? Did he really have to go on NFL Network multiple times, when he had to know it would be all Chad, all the time (and in fact once got Chad on the phone on the air!)? Was helping his buddy keep his "screw you guys, I'm outta here" campaign in the spotlight what we wanted to see? And now this. Look, TJ: Just. Show. Up. Or don't, I don't mind. But either way...zip it, okay?

[HAPPYJAQ]

T.J. is one of my all-time favorite Bengals players. I love the fact that he continues to play with a chip on his shoulder from being a 7th round selection, despite his success and Pro Bowl selection this year. I've even read somewhere that he has memorized the names of every WR drafted ahead of him and uses that as his motivation when playing against all the other teams that bypassed him. On top of that, he has displayed loyalty in re-signing with the Bengals when other teams (including the Steelers) offered him more money when he hit free-agency in '04. He took the home team discount on an at best average team at the time, when he could have gone to a contender for more cash. I think he deserves a 4-year extension but I don't think the Bengals will honor him for the time he has served in being loyal and a team player. I can remember a time that he was talked about many of the same ways that Chris Perry is talked about now and battled through the injuries to become a star NFL WR. If we don't resign him, there will be MANY teams fighting for his services and he knows that.

Hey, I have no problem with TJ on the field and if the Bengals chose to re-up him I would not complain. But he's begun to wear on me the same way Willie Anderson did a few years back. They're both guys who could do with a healthy dose of STFU pills. Did we really need TJ this year following up Chad's threat to sit out with his own announcement that he'd be hanging in California all offseason? Did he really have to go on NFL Network multiple times, when he had to know it would be all Chad, all the time (and in fact once got Chad on the phone on the air!)? Was helping his buddy keep his "screw you guys, I'm outta here" campaign in the spotlight what we wanted to see? And now this. Look, TJ: Just. Show. Up. Or don't, I don't mind. But either way...zip it, okay?

I agree with you, Hoosier. T.J. is on the scene more than some. I think part of that is him angling to get more exposure in a small market. He has openly said that he'd like to be on TV or an NFL GM and he doesn't have the same fan-fare as some other receivers who were higher picks and play in larger markets do. The thing I don't like is his loyalty to Chad but I understand as they have been on the same side for nearly a decade and obviously have a strong friendship. The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't be upset if they let hm walk and free up some more cap room (in addition to receiving the compensatory pick for him, that should at least be a 3rd for a Pro Bowl receiver).

[kingwilly]

T.J. is one of my all-time favorite Bengals players. I love the fact that he continues to play with a chip on his shoulder from being a 7th round selection, despite his success and Pro Bowl selection this year. I've even read somewhere that he has memorized the names of every WR drafted ahead of him and uses that as his motivation when playing against all the other teams that bypassed him. On top of that, he has displayed loyalty in re-signing with the Bengals when other teams (including the Steelers) offered him more money when he hit free-agency in '04. He took the home team discount on an at best average team at the time, when he could have gone to a contender for more cash. I think he deserves a 4-year extension but I don't think the Bengals will honor him for the time he has served in being loyal and a team player. I can remember a time that he was talked about many of the same ways that Chris Perry is talked about now and battled through the injuries to become a star NFL WR. If we don't resign him, there will be MANY teams fighting for his services and he knows that.

Hey, I have no problem with TJ on the field and if the Bengals chose to re-up him I would not complain. But he's begun to wear on me the same way Willie Anderson did a few years back. They're both guys who could do with a healthy dose of STFU pills. Did we really need TJ this year following up Chad's threat to sit out with his own announcement that he'd be hanging in California all offseason? Did he really have to go on NFL Network multiple times, when he had to know it would be all Chad, all the time (and in fact once got Chad on the phone on the air!)? Was helping his buddy keep his "screw you guys, I'm outta here" campaign in the spotlight what we wanted to see? And now this. Look, TJ: Just. Show. Up. Or don't, I don't mind. But either way...zip it, okay?

I agree with you, Hoosier. T.J. is on the scene more than some. I think part of that is him angling to get more exposure in a small market. He has openly said that he'd like to be on TV or an NFL GM and he doesn't have the same fan-fare as some other receivers who were higher picks and play in larger markets do. The thing I don't like is his loyalty to Chad but I understand as they have been on the same side for nearly a decade and obviously have a strong friendship. The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't be upset if they let hm walk and free up some more cap room (in addition to receiving the compensatory pick for him, that should at least be a 3rd for a Pro Bowl receiver).

I don't see him being overly or outwardly "loyal" to CJ. He expresses what he thinks and that is that. It is not like he is telling us things we don't already know, like CJ will be a distraction this Fall.

As to TJ being a GM or other function in an NFL club, I don't see why not. Many players have gone on to have careers with NFL teams after done playing. Ozzy Newsome strikes me as the pentultimate player, then gm. Matt Millen, success be damned, has also gone on to run a front office, for better or worse.

TJ is not nearly as visible as he would be playing for the Giants, Dallas, SD or even a Houston. Cincy is small-time market these days. Reggie Wayne is a gy like TJ, top level talent and output, who just does not get the pub in Indy even with the SB. If you want pub, hire a PR person if that is important to you. Look at Welker, tied with TJ for catches but gts very little exposure, relative to the TO's, CJ's, or even a guy like Braylon Edwards.

TJ is the bridge player to get us to the next crop of WR's, since CJ has already checked out. How long he can continue to slow and assume a "Hines Ward" kind of role as WR remains to be seen since this team needs to find a run game.

[HAPPYJAQ]

T.J. is one of my all-time favorite Bengals players. I love the fact that he continues to play with a chip on his shoulder from being a 7th round selection, despite his success and Pro Bowl selection this year. I've even read somewhere that he has memorized the names of every WR drafted ahead of him and uses that as his motivation when playing against all the other teams that bypassed him. On top of that, he has displayed loyalty in re-signing with the Bengals when other teams (including the Steelers) offered him more money when he hit free-agency in '04. He took the home team discount on an at best average team at the time, when he could have gone to a contender for more cash. I think he deserves a 4-year extension but I don't think the Bengals will honor him for the time he has served in being loyal and a team player. I can remember a time that he was talked about many of the same ways that Chris Perry is talked about now and battled through the injuries to become a star NFL WR. If we don't resign him, there will be MANY teams fighting for his services and he knows that.

Hey, I have no problem with TJ on the field and if the Bengals chose to re-up him I would not complain. But he's begun to wear on me the same way Willie Anderson did a few years back. They're both guys who could do with a healthy dose of STFU pills. Did we really need TJ this year following up Chad's threat to sit out with his own announcement that he'd be hanging in California all offseason? Did he really have to go on NFL Network multiple times, when he had to know it would be all Chad, all the time (and in fact once got Chad on the phone on the air!)? Was helping his buddy keep his "screw you guys, I'm outta here" campaign in the spotlight what we wanted to see? And now this. Look, TJ: Just. Show. Up. Or don't, I don't mind. But either way...zip it, okay?

I agree with you, Hoosier. T.J. is on the scene more than some. I think part of that is him angling to get more exposure in a small market. He has openly said that he'd like to be on TV or an NFL GM and he doesn't have the same fan-fare as some other receivers who were higher picks and play in larger markets do. The thing I don't like is his loyalty to Chad but I understand as they have been on the same side for nearly a decade and obviously have a strong friendship. The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't be upset if they let hm walk and free up some more cap room (in addition to receiving the compensatory pick for him, that should at least be a 3rd for a Pro Bowl receiver).

I don't see him being overly or outwardly "loyal" to CJ. He expresses what he thinks and that is that. It is not like he is telling us things we don't already know, like CJ will be a distraction this Fall.

As to TJ being a GM or other function in an NFL club, I don't see why not. Many players have gone on to have careers with NFL teams after done playing. Ozzy Newsome strikes me as the pentultimate player, then gm. Matt Millen, success be damned, has also gone on to run a front office, for better or worse.

TJ is not nearly as visible as he would be playing for the Giants, Dallas, SD or even a Houston. Cincy is small-time market these days. Reggie Wayne is a gy like TJ, top level talent and output, who just does not get the pub in Indy even with the SB. If you want pub, hire a PR person if that is important to you. Look at Welker, tied with TJ for catches but gts very little exposure, relative to the TO's, CJ's, or even a guy like Braylon Edwards.

TJ is the bridge player to get us to the next crop of WR's, since CJ has already checked out. How long he can continue to slow and assume a "Hines Ward" kind of role as WR remains to be seen since this team needs to find a run game.

Excellent Post. I totally agree. Between Simpson, Caldwll, Urutia and Purify, I think we have the players to succeed T.J. and Chad, even if it means that this year is a developmental year. If there is any time to have a semi-rebuilding year, this year would be it. I say run the hell out of the ball this year early in the year to give the new guys time to develop.

[HoosierCat]

I don't see him being overly or outwardly "loyal" to CJ. He expresses what he thinks and that is that. It is not like he is telling us things we don't already know, like CJ will be a distraction this Fall.

Perhaps not, but that begs the question of why he's saying anything at all. Remember the old bit about discretion being the better part of valor. And I can't help but grind my teeth when I think of all the times TJ has talked about "Chad's business" on TV, the web or in print...and 85 is silent. But let Carson Palmer make one comment and Chad can't get to the phone fast enough.

[kingwilly]

I don't see him being overly or outwardly "loyal" to CJ. He expresses what he thinks and that is that. It is not like he is telling us things we don't already know, like CJ will be a distraction this Fall.

Perhaps not, but that begs the question of why he's saying anything at all. Remember the old bit about discretion being the better part of valor. And I can't help but grind my teeth when I think of all the times TJ has talked about "Chad's business" on TV, the web or in print...and 85 is silent. But let Carson Palmer make one comment and Chad can't get to the phone fast enough.

ok, fair enough but if you are ding-dong journalist who do you call when CJ cries and whines? Carson and TJ. I am not sure how you can blame TJ for Carsons' comments any more than you can give CJ a pass for not telling TJ to button up.

Carson directly commented about a conversation he said he had with CJ about mini-camp. It ended up being directly contrary to what CJ and Rosenclown had publicly said about the topic so it begged follow-up and later a further refutal from CJ.

TJ was sought out and gave his opinion on the overall situation. Whether any of it warrants discussion or a story is beyond me but clearly there is some tension in the building. If TJ is acting as CJ's advocate, I really don't care as long as HE show up for work and plays hard. I just don't see how TJ is the problem here when there is the 800lb elephant (infant) in the room wearing an 85 jersey. Eye on the ball.

[HoosierCat]

ok, fair enough but if you are ding-dong journalist who do you call when CJ cries and whines? Carson and TJ. I am not sure how you can blame TJ for Carsons' comments any more than you can give CJ a pass for not telling TJ to button up.

I didn't blame TJ for Carson's comments. Just pointing out how Chad is apparently OK with his buddy talking about his business, but not his QB. Why? You tell me.

And if TJ gets a call because Chad whines? How does "no comment" hit you as a response?

[BengalPimp]

Man, get over it.......It's Voluntary....he doesnt have to be there.....THERE IS NO STORY HERE GUYS. If he were missing mandatory

practices, then it would be a story..

Some of you act like he's missing VOLUNTARY practices, to smoke weed with Cheech, go Clubbin', or make drama like Chad.

The Dude is working out, and spending as much time with his family as possible before he has to be away from them for all

the MANDATORY stuff.

Stop looking for NEW stuff to complain about....We have enough old stuff for that..LOL

[kingwilly]

So far, it is not "who" but "what". Yes, I imagine TJ is a bit of a mouthpiece. And I am in no way defending CJ or accusing Carson of anything but it is unclear what is the center of the issue between Carson and CJ. If Carson states publicly that CJ "told him" that he'd be at minicamp in June, and CJ did no such thing, then it is an issue. I hope Carson is applying pressure on CJ. If not, then Carson should be lobbying to take out the trash. CJ's overt reaction to the Carson comment leads me to believe that it was either a private conversation, CJ is a two-faced liar, or Carson is doing what he can to stir the pot and 86 85.

Getting a "no comment" from TJ would be more "team" but whatever. The probelm that remains is CJ. Remove him, either by sitting him/disinviting him from all team functions, or trading him for a Jason Taylor + picks or comparable value and begin to move on. The current disarray plays right into Rosencocks plans.

[HoosierCat]

THERE IS NO STORY HERE GUYS.

Really?

But he says there's a chance T.J. Houshmandzadeh could come in on Tuesday's first day of camp to bring some grizzle.

Not sure what "grizzle" is but hey, I guess we could use it.

(Brat): I talked to T.J. and he said there's a good chance he'll be here next week. (The workouts) give us an opportunity to really spend quality work with all of the guys that are here.

A good chance? TJ might grace us with his presence? I guess we tune in next week, same drama time, same drama channel, to find out.

[BengalszoneBilly]

THERE IS NO STORY HERE GUYS.

True. None whatsoever, but this being the time between the draft and preseason, you'd be surprised at what would pass for a story worth comment around here.

[kingwilly]

THERE IS NO STORY HERE GUYS.

Really?

But he says there's a chance T.J. Houshmandzadeh could come in on Tuesday's first day of camp to bring some grizzle.

Not sure what "grizzle" is but hey, I guess we could use it.

(Brat): I talked to T.J. and he said there's a good chance he'll be here next week. (The workouts) give us an opportunity to really spend quality work with all of the guys that are here.

A good chance? TJ might grace us with his presence? I guess we tune in next week, same drama time, same drama channel, to find out.

....be a pro, be a man, show up and do your part to make the team better. w e a k.

[bengalsfansince68]

I guess we tune in next week, same drama time, same drama channel, to find out.

Attempting to equate TJ's behavior to princess chad's is nonsensical beyond belief.

Christ Hoosier, you're a Mod, you started this nonsense, why not man up and lock this ridiculous thread down.

It is really becoming annoying and the more you run off at the mouth on this subject, the farther your credibility dips below the equator. I am rapidly losing the respect that I had for you.

[Kazkal]

Hmmm I guess all the more TJ less CJ will turn in to less TJ and CJ more Simpson and Cardwell.

[kingwilly]

I guess we tune in next week, same drama time, same drama channel, to find out.

Attempting to equate TJ's behavior to princess chad's is nonsensical beyond belief.

Christ Hoosier, you're a Mod, you started this nonsense, why not man up and lock this ridiculous thread down.

It is really becoming annoying and the more you run off at the mouth on this subject, the farther your credibility dips below the equator. I am rapidly losing the respect that I had for you.

...easy. this is the common Bengal "Flu". Once someone gets it, the whole family gets their turn. It is typically transmitted in an online virus and it is now Hoosier's turn to be "sick". Just feed him some broth and keep him away from the "Hot Off the Wire" over at KFFL. It will soon pass.