“Grass definitely is greener” away from Cincinnati

[oldschooler]

“Grass definitely is greener” away from Cincinnati

By Tom Archdeacon | Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 10:53 PM

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. — He’s heard from a lot of his former teammates.

“Rudi Johnson, Reggie Kelly, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Chad Johnson, Levi Jones — they all said how great it was and how they wish they were here playing,” Kelley Washington said Wednesday as he sat at the Scottsdale resort where he and his New England Patriots teammates are preparing for Sunday’s Super Bowl XLII challenge from the New York Giants.

Before this season, Washington was with the Cincinnati Bengals. In four years there, he caught 72 passes for nearly 900 yards and nine touchdowns. Then the Bengals let him go and New England signed him as an unrestricted free agent in March.

With the Patriots, he’s not caught a pass this season, but he’s become a special teams stand-out who coach Bill Belichick praised again Wednesday at his press conference.

“The grass definitely is greener on the other side,” said Washington, who admitted becoming ego-less here was both a necessity and worth it. The Patriots are 18-0 and favored to beat the Giants.

“People talk about history and being the best team ever and that could be special,” he said. “But we don’t want the label of a team that went all through the season and came up one game short.”

That, he said, is some of the difference between New England and Cincinnati:

“Playing in Cincinnati, we were just happy to win games and happy to maybe make the playoffs. Here the thinking is totally different. Here they think Super Bowls — that’s where they expect to be every year.”

Although he has some good friends in Cincinnati — especially Houshmandzadeh, who he called “a class act” — he said the whole atmosphere is different in New England:

“It’s so much different here. It’s all about team chemistry. There’s no me and I. It’s all about winning. It’s not about players who are out there who are selfish. The mentality is totally different.”

He said he wasn’t surprised by Cincinnati’s downward spiral this season:

“It’s bound to happen when there’s so much going on off the field. When you don’t have total control of the organization and players, it’s bound to happen. That totally takes away the focus for football and doing your job.

“The Bengals have some great players. Some of the best skill players in the league, but all the off-the-field issues overpower all that.

“I’m glad I’m part of something else now, but I still miss quite a few of those guys.”

And with that he mentioned the best thing he’d heard from his old teammates as he headed to the Super Bowl.

“T.J. and I talked last week and he told me he hoped we won. He said it would be something special that I could always say I was a part of. He wanted to see me get that.

“That really touched me.”

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/o/conten...greener_aw.html

[HairOnFire]

The thing that kills me is Washington becoming a special team standout in New England while his so-called inability to find a spot on special teams in Cincy was cited as the reason he was so often inactive.

I kept telling anyone who would listen that he was pretty darn good on the Bengals special teams when he got the chance.

[agreen_112]

The thing that kills me is Washington becoming a special team standout in New England while his so-called inability to find a spot on special teams in Cincy was cited as the reason he was so often inactive.

I kept telling anyone who would listen that he was pretty darn good on the Bengals special teams when he got the chance.

It just shows how poorly the Bengals are managed. Kelly was a WR for the Bengals, but a ST standout in NE. The qualilty of players that get playing time in NE make our players look like practice squad material. Landon Johnson, Peko, J. Smith, Thorton, M. Williams, R. Geathers, Jeanty, ect would NOT be starters on a NE defense. They'd be lucky to get a few snaps in rotation.

[oldschooler]

It just shows how poorly the Bengals are managed. Kelly was a WR for the Bengals, but a ST standout in NE. The qualilty of players that get playing time in NE make our players look like practice squad material. Landon Johnson, Peko, J. Smith, Thorton, M. Williams, R. Geathers, Jeanty, ect would NOT be starters on a NE defense. They'd be lucky to get a few snaps in rotation.

You act like Belichick took over one of the worst Franchises

in all of sports, and has been rebuilding them ever since.

Belichick followed one of the best Coaches in the NCAA.

And before that, they were coached by a Hall of Fame Coach.

They already had a foundation, and winning culture installed.

Oh, and I would love to see how great the Patriots would have

been if Brady wouldn`t have panned out . . .

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

The thing that kills me is Washington becoming a special team standout in New England while his so-called inability to find a spot on special teams in Cincy was cited as the reason he was so often inactive.

I kept telling anyone who would listen that he was pretty darn good on the Bengals special teams when he got the chance.

My problem with him was his alligator arms. That's hard to coach out.

[bwillycuse]

The thing that kills me is Washington becoming a special team standout in New England while his so-called inability to find a spot on special teams in Cincy was cited as the reason he was so often inactive.

I kept telling anyone who would listen that he was pretty darn good on the Bengals special teams when he got the chance.

Meh, 17 total tackles on ST this year with like 100 kickoffs. 0 catches, 0 yards.

Josh Cribbs had 20 total tackles.

Indian Jones had like 12.

Kelly didnt pan out and looks to bounce around the league as a backup. Not upset he is gone.

I wonder if its better to sit the bench and win a title or play every week and never win it. Hmmmm?

Does he do the squirrel after tackles?(Didnt really like it but we were oversaturated with Chad antics)

Actually, Kelly is respectible guy on and off the field and he is able to cherish his role on the team.

[HairOnFire]

My problem with him was his alligator arms. That's hard to coach out.

Well I guess we've all got our gripes.

But in this example my biggest complaint is how a player who could have played an important complimentary role within the offense was so often deactivated in favor of pure special team player....and my displeasure is magnified when I remember the coaches explanation that Washington couldn't play special teams. He obviously can, and I thought he did a fairly good job of proving that with the Bengals when he was given the chance.

And now I have to read that he actually thrives in that role?

Damn.

[BengalByTheBay]

My problem with him was his alligator arms. That's hard to coach out.

Well I guess we've all got our gripes.

But in this example my biggest complaint is how a player who could have played an important complimentary role within the offense was so often deactivated in favor of pure special team player....and my displeasure is magnified when I remember the coaches explanation that Washington couldn't play special teams. He obviously can, and I thought he did a fairly good job of proving that with the Bengals when he was given the chance.

And now I have to read that he actually thrives in that role?

Damn.

Or, perhaps he realized that his career in the NFL was rapidly coming to an end unless he dedicated himself to playing ST on a team that was, with or without him, complete. It speaks volumes that he doesn't play WR and can only stay on the field playing teams. He's basically CD without as big a role. He went to the Pat's to prolong his career and get a ringt based on other players' performance. As far as that goes -- good for him.

His quotes about how disfunctional and selfish the Bengals are is interesting in that he was nothing but self-promotional in his very limited WR role while he was here. Who can forget the leg-whip first down calls? He may not have gotten arrested, but his on-field personna was more selfish than anybody else on the team. To his credit, he realized that he needed to quite that crap down in order to go somewhere with another team. Nonetheless, he hasn't done anything for NE that 100 other marginal players who didn't play with the Bengals previously would've done. It must be the second week of pre-SB for the press corps. to finally get around to Kelly Washington.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Well I guess we've all got our gripes.

Um, alligator arms is a pretty big problem for a receiver. I know they're otherwise stacked, but there's a reason the Patsies aren't throwing to him. Unless absence is making your heart grow fonder for Kelly Washington than he deserves, permit me to remind you he sucked as a receiver. Maybe I'm not recalling it, but I don't remember you posting a ton of "Keep the Squirrel!" threads.

But in this example my biggest complaint is how a player who could have played an important complimentary role within the offense was so often deactivated in favor of pure special team player....and my displeasure is magnified when I remember the coaches explanation that Washington couldn't play special teams. He obviously can, and I thought he did a fairly good job of proving that with the Bengals when he was given the chance.

I think that considering he was a crappy receiver, his loss as a special teams player isn't really all that much to cry over. Particularly considering the team's other needs. I also think you're using this perceived justification of you being 'right' to make this issue and KW into a much bigger deal than it is.

Basically, he sucks, who cares, let's move on.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Does he do the squirrel after tackles?(Didnt really like it but we were oversaturated with Chad antics)

He did it once that I can recall in the playoffs, I think it was after he kept a punt out of the endzone. I laughed my ass off. I can only imagine the cries of 'what the hell was that?!?!' from the greater New England area sports bars.

[HairOnFire]

Maybe I'm not recalling it, but I don't remember you posting a ton of "Keep the Squirrel!" threads.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I was K-Dub's loudest supporter on this board.

I think that considering he was a crappy receiver, his loss as a special teams player isn't really all that much to cry over. Particularly considering the team's other needs.

Uhhh, what's one of those other needs you're taliing about? Adding another WR, right? And that's just the point because Washington produced as a WR and as a special teams player whenever he was given a chance. And not only wasn't he given much of a chance, largely because the Bengals wanted a player with Chris Henry's big play ability, but they used Washington's so-called inability to play special teams as justification for inactivating him nearly every game.

I also think you're using this perceived justification of you being 'right' to make this issue and KW into a much bigger deal than it is.

I'm not trying to make it a bigger issue than it is. I'm just pointing out that there is an issue, and always was. After all, Henry hasn't exactly locked down the 3rd WR role that the Bengals took from Washington, and their claim that he couldn't play special teams looks absolutely ridiculous.

Sadly, I bet I could get you to agree with the things I'm saying if I blamed Mike Brown for the failure instead of Marvin Lewis.

[HoosierCat]

After all, Henry hasn't exactly locked down the 3rd WR role that the Bengals took from Washington, and their claim that he couldn't play special teams looks absolutely ridiculous.

I'm forced to agree. I too find the Kwash situation...irritating. Had someone sparked in that that 3rd wideout role this year, I might feel differently. But the only one who impressed me was Holt...and the Bengals responded to his success on offense by shoving him back on teams.

Sometimes the Bengals coaching staff mystifies me. Marvin's favorite phrase used to be, "I see better than I hear," but sometimes I think they don't see at all. They get a fixed idea that player X can or can't possibly do job Y, and any data to the contrary just gets ignored as an outlier.

[GregCook]

After all, Henry hasn't exactly locked down the 3rd WR role that the Bengals took from Washington, and their claim that he couldn't play special teams looks absolutely ridiculous.

I'm forced to agree. I too find the Kwash situation...irritating. Had someone sparked in that that 3rd wideout role this year, I might feel differently. But the only one who impressed me was Holt...and the Bengals responded to his success on offense by shoving him back on teams.

Sometimes the Bengals coaching staff mystifies me. Marvin's favorite phrase used to be, "I see better than I hear," but sometimes I think they don't see at all. They get a fixed idea that player X can or can't possibly do job Y, and any data to the contrary just gets ignored as an outlier.

Not to get sidetracked by KWash, but yeah, the Pats get more out of their players than the Bengals have. I'm sure part of it is a player on the Pats has a good chance of professional success whereas a Cincy player is usually thinking vacation plans beginning Jan 1. Actually I think the Pats could take the Bengals business model with the same titles and roles and still regularly get to the league championship and SB. But this is idle, the Pats are freaks this year, a historic team in the NFL. No point to compare the Bengals to them, its like comparing the physical feats of Hercules to Dilbert.

[HoosierCat]

No point to compare the Bengals to them, its like comparing the physical feats of Hercules to Dilbert.

That's probably true. However, it occurs to me that one very unheralded element of the Pats' success under Belichick is li'l Bill's apparent recognition that something is rotten in Cincy. Consider that he's taken Corey Dillion, Artrell Hawkins and, now Kelly Washington, and turned them all into contributors. He has quite successfully cherry-picked Cincy players, almost as if we were a NE farm team, to the point where guys like Chad now lobby for a NE trade after they feel they have done their "time" here.

Not that Bill hasn't also resurrected guys like Moss and Stallworth, but it's interesting to note his affinity for (and success with) Bengals cast-offs.

[DuffMan]

This article assumes that Kelley Washington knows anything about football and can meaningfully comment upon the status of the Cincinnati Bengals.

[BengalszoneBilly]

This article assumes that Kelley Washington knows anything about football and can meaningfully comment upon the status of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Kelley will be known more for his impromptu Squirrel Dance more than anything else he's done in in the league.

[HoosierCat]

This article assumes that Kelley Washington knows anything about football and can meaningfully comment upon the status of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Kelley will be known more for his impromptu Squirrel Dance more than anything else he's done in in the league.

Did you notice him last game doing it after that nice ST play downing the kick just in front of the goal line?

Take what you can get, eh?

Regarding his comments, say what you will, but I find it worth noting that every Bengal player who has left says basically the same thing. Smoke --> fire, y'know?

[HairOnFire]

Meh, 17 total tackles on ST this year with like 100 kickoffs. 0 catches, 0 yards.

Josh Cribbs had 20 total tackles.

Indian Jones had like 12.

I hate stat based arguments, but what the heck.

Keep looking.

Keep looking and maybe you'll find a stat relating to the punt Washington blocked that was returned for a score, winning a game for the Patriots and preserving their perfect season. And keep looking for the stats showing how he covered two punts within the 5-yard line in one game...or dove into the endzone while flipping the ball back into play in another.

And that's just in the handful of Patriot games that I watched.

Just saying.

He can play special teams.

Always could.

But for some reason they said he couldn't play 'em here.

And because of that mistaken opinion the Bengals usually inactivated Washington...12 out of 16 games in his last season as a Bengal, thereby preventing him from getting reps as the 3rd or 4th WR.

It's sorta funny, on another message board I read a post where a Bengal fan makes fun of the Patriots for paying Washington 2 million dollars the season to play special teams. Meanwhile, the Bengals paid him just as much to do nothing at all.

Look, I'm not trying to make this into anything bigger than it really was. But it still grinds on me when I think of the way the Bengals handled Washington when he was here.

Why buy something if you're not going to use it?

And if someone can actually do something very well that you say he can't do at all, well....who has the right to talk?

[CarsonDaMan]

I'm not so sure the Bengals ever said he just flat out couldn't play special teams. I wondered myself why they refused to put him in but I also realize the Bengals have almost always had good coverage units since Marvin has been here.

Reggie Myles was a beast. Kaesviharn was good. Ethan Kilmer was better than Kdub. I'm sure there are other guys i'm forgetting but to sum it up they had good players that Washington didn't beat out.

I think Kelly got a raw deal here as a wide receiver. Anytime he got in the game it seemed like he made some plays. And to be quite honest i'd still rather have him at that third spot than Henry. He had a bit of an ego yes but he put in the work and deserved a better deal than he got here.

[Horsemen]

He has quite successfully cherry-picked Cincy players, almost as if we were a NE farm team,

Maybe we are?

[BengalszoneBilly]

He has quite successfully cherry-picked Cincy players, almost as if we were a NE farm team,

Maybe we are?

Maybe the whole league is. Kudos to their talent savvy management, but I give them the most credit for building offensive and defensive lines who control the LOS. That's why I pray the Bengals next draft is HEAVY on quality linemen. You can have the best position players in the world, but without the big men in the trenches, you'll never notice them.

[HoosierCat]

He has quite successfully cherry-picked Cincy players, almost as if we were a NE farm team,

Maybe we are?

Belichick certainly has a knack for ex-Bengals (contrast with Manuel, Walters, Thompson, etc.). I think smart coaches watch "dumb" teams -- and Cincy isn't set up to take maximum advantage of its players. Coaches have too many other things to do. It's one of the reasons I get on them about needing more scouts. Maybe fewer players who could contribute would slip through if coaches had more time to spend coaching, y'know?

[Pidge]

He has quite successfully cherry-picked Cincy players, almost as if we were a NE farm team,

Maybe we are?

Maybe the whole league is. Kudos to their talent savvy management, but I give them the most credit for building offensive and defensive lines who control the LOS. That's why I pray the Bengals next draft is HEAVY on quality linemen. You can have the best position players in the world, but without the big men in the trenches, you'll never notice them.

Prexactly!

[agreen_112]

Meh, 17 total tackles on ST this year with like 100 kickoffs. 0 catches, 0 yards.

Josh Cribbs had 20 total tackles.

Indian Jones had like 12.

I hate stat based arguments, but what the heck.

Keep looking.

Keep looking and maybe you'll find a stat relating to the punt Washington blocked that was returned for a score, winning a game for the Patriots and preserving their perfect season. And keep looking for the stats showing how he covered two punts within the 5-yard line in one game...or dove into the endzone while flipping the ball back into play in another.

And that's just in the handful of Patriot games that I watched.

Just saying.

He can play special teams.

Always could.

But for some reason they said he couldn't play 'em here.

And because of that mistaken opinion the Bengals usually inactivated Washington...12 out of 16 games in his last season as a Bengal, thereby preventing him from getting reps as the 3rd or 4th WR.

It's sorta funny, on another message board I read a post where a Bengal fan makes fun of the Patriots for paying Washington 2 million dollars the season to play special teams. Meanwhile, the Bengals paid him just as much to do nothing at all.

Look, I'm not trying to make this into anything bigger than it really was. But it still grinds on me when I think of the way the Bengals handled Washington when he was here.

Why buy something if you're not going to use it?

And if someone can actually do something very well that you say he can't do at all, well....who has the right to talk?

Again, it just shows how POORLY the Bengals are managed compared to teams that WIN.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Uhhh, what's one of those other needs you're taliing about? Adding another WR, right? And that's just the point because Washington produced as a WR and as a special teams player whenever he was given a chance. And not only wasn't he given much of a chance, largely because the Bengals wanted a player with Chris Henry's big play ability, but they used Washington's so-called inability to play special teams as justification for inactivating him nearly every game.

He didn't produce as a WR. He sucked as a WR. He couldn't even take the job when Henry was out. He dropped balls. He shied away from physical contact in the endzone. He had no idea how to use his body to shield defenders from the ball.

Lost in the recent KW love-fest, and claims that the Patsies found him as a diamond in the rough, is still the fact that he caught exactly 0 passes this year.

I think this sort of thread is coming from the recent Chad flake-out. But I think people have forgotten how bad a receiver KW was.

Sadly, I bet I could get you to agree with the things I'm saying if I blamed Mike Brown for the failure instead of Marvin Lewis.

If you told me that Mike Brown made the decision to cut KW I might reconsider my notion that he lacks any personnel evaluation skill.

There's no doubt that KW made a couple of plays on ST this year for the Patsies. The question is whether it's worth keeping a guy who has no hope of playing his presumed position (WR) and doesn't play a skill ST position (like KR or PR). If you're dressing him, it's solely as a kick coverage guy who can do nothing else capably. Is that worth it? Apparently, since that's how Belichick uses him. I don't think the Bengals could do that given their injury rates - they'd probably need that spot for a LB.

On this team, when KW was cut I still think we had more than enough receivers that he wasn't looking to dress. I'll take Chad, TJ, Henry, and Glen Holt over him any day. We were still counting on Tab at that point too. That means KW is, at best, 5th receiver, maybe 6th. Or put it this way - we had to cut a WR at that point to get to roster size. Who do you cut instead?

I'm not saying the coaching staff didn't make some head scratching moves. I don't remember them claiming that KW couldn't play special teams (I probably wouldn't have heard about it, or much cared), but I'll take your word for it. And I agree with Hoosier that it's nothing short of a mystery why they won't let Glen Holt play receiver.

But again, cutting KW isn't even on the top 100 list of things wrong with this team.