2004 Season

[BengalszoneBilly]

Bengals in the SB is a big stretch to me

Get ready to be stretched. Sorry Daredevil, but if ANY team is playoff bound between the Falcons and the Bengals...I'll take the Bengals! (What else did you expect to here at this web site!! )

[Arizona]

Daredevil, I have a question for you, and I want a serious answer (i.e. I'm not talking trash)

Do you think Vick is going to have a psychological block involving the Ravens? I expect he will simply for the reason that the Ravens caused his first major injury of his career, and by my estimation, his psyche wasn't the same when he came back. First, he was afraid to come back until he was 100%. Second, when he did come back, he threw his body around like a madman, almost as if he was trying to prove something, to prove that he wasn't afraid.

I'm curious as to your opinion.

[tmai1323]

I think that 9-7 should win them the division.. We will also be 2-0 in prime time in 2004.

Who-Dey

[daredevil25]

Daredevil, I have a question for you, and I want a serious answer (i.e. I'm not talking trash)

Do you think Vick is going to have a psychological block involving the Ravens? I expect he will simply for the reason that the Ravens caused his first major injury of his career, and by my estimation, his psyche wasn't the same when he came back. First, he was afraid to come back until he was 100%. Second, when he did come back, he threw his body around like a madman, almost as if he was trying to prove something, to prove that he wasn't afraid.

I'm curious as to your opinion.

Arizona, first I want to start by saying hi because I've NEVER had a conversation w/ a Ravens fan, lol.

Ok, on to the question, I am confident Vick got over the injury. A lot is made about the 100% thing, but sports players have done it before and his comeback (unknown to most) was delayed by one of our lineman rolling on Vick's ankle which caused the swelling to stay intense. Vick was due back for the Titans game when that happened. As for the game that he came back, I don't look at the Panthers game. I look at the Texans game where he came in for Doug Johnson since Damn Reeves decided it would be better to let Vick sit (and he wondered why he was told he wouldn't be coming back) and when Vick came in he was much more calm. The Panthers game he played the way he always did against the Panthers "Michael Vick Football" as the NFC Champs called it. Its something they're not equipped to playing and something he excells at.

He receives a lot of due bash, I don't see him being "afraid" of the Ravens. It was a bad mistake on his part and I believe he learned from it. What's loss is that in his two final games (the Bucs and Jags) he was almost perfect in decision making. People don't look at that most his passes that actually went to a WR were complete and most his incompletions were throws to avoid a sack. I'd also like to thank you for being probably the only non-Falcon fan to realize that the injury he had this year was his first major injury.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Arizona, first I want to start by saying hi because I've NEVER had a conversation w/ a Ravens fan, lol.

Welcome to the diversity of the "Zone!" If you'd like to converse with Ravens fans other than Arizona or Jam31, check out Ravens Talk.com. Not the best layout in football sites, but mostly knowlegeable fans there that you can truly discuss football with.

[Arizona]

Good reply from the Falcons' fan, but don't mind me if I continue to believe that the Ravens will "own" Vick for a long time.

[daredevil25]

Well, unless we keep playing preseason games wont be much owning to do, lol. However, you guys have everything it takes to beat Vick (on a Panthers board I did a DETAILED description on this) and until we get a run stuffing DT and get comfortable w/ the WCO all teams that use the formula you and the Bucs have (very few teams can use it) will own us.

[Arizona]

Wow, I don't think our defense is anything like Tampa's in terms of scheme. They run a zone happy 4-3 cover 2 and we run blitz happy man lock watch out here come's Ray Ray 3-4.

Explain please the similarities (beyond the athleticism of the athletes of course)

[daredevil25]

'zona, that last part of your statement is why. You're both fast, disciplined defenses that can mix up coverages easily and have the LB speed and pass rush to contain Vick. It doesn't take a "Cover-2" like many people believe to beat Vick, it takes being DISCIPLINED (i.e staying in your lanes) and being fast. On the Carolina board I did a detailed description on how to beat Vick, if you'd like to see it, I'll email it to you (instead of clogging up this board w/ it).

[BengalszoneBilly]

On the Carolina board I did a detailed description on how to beat Vick, if you'd like to see it, I'll email it to you (instead of clogging up this board w/ it).

Clog away! We'd like to hear it too!

[daredevil25]

Okay I didn't edit this post in any way it was directed towards Panther fans, a little, when I was posting it, so just ignore those parts.

Instead of copy and pasting my last post, I'll just go more in depth.

WARNING PANTHER FANS WILL NOT AGREE WITH SOME OF THIS CONTENT!!!!

Okay, as a Falcon fan I've only seen 3 games where Vick was shut down completely and one where he had a ton of trouble. Those three games were the Bucs (2002) the Ravens (2002) and the Colts (2003). Now a lot of people are quick to say Vick can't play well against a cover 2 which was disproved by his sound, albeit not flashy, perfomance against the Bucs in 2003. However, the KEY to defeating Vick is discipline!

Teams that just rush the QB will be murdered vs. Vick. You can not wildly go after him, he will burn you every time. However, disciplined teams that stay in their lanes will have a prayer.

Next comes team speed. Your defense better be fast as a unit not in one area. Vick is such an amazing player because each area of the defense has to account for him every down. Your defense as a unit has to be able to react to his whereabouts and converge on him. This fits the discipline them, because if you were in your gap you should always be able to spot Vick and be able to have help. The Bucs and Ravens did this masterfully. They converge on the ball like killer bees.

Your secondary also has to be good in both man and zone coverage. You will have to switch up unless your LBs have contained Vick (see the teams above). Generally teams will open up against us in zone coverage to see what Vick is going to do. That was why we overpaid for Price, he was a deep threat that would force teams to play man, taking one man out of the picture when Vick scrambles to that side. However, if you're sound in each are, Vick has no one to throw to because our WRs aren't good enough to break good coverage by themselves, and none of them opens up the field for the others.

Now, relating back to the Panthers (sorry you're the best defense to pick on) here's why they don't have great success. The front 4 is damn good, that's a given. However, they also tend to overpursue and go after the QB too strong. Mistake #1 is going after Vick in a blind rush. Next is the LBs, who really just don't do anything against Vick. Now I am FULLY aware that Dan Morgan would make a collosal difference, but a lot of Panther fans think that eliminates Vick totally, which it doesn't. It takes, a fast TEAM defense, not one fast player to stop Vick. Morgan would make life a lot harder for #7 and would have forced Vick to make shorter runs, but I still do not believe he would have changed the total outcome of the games. Your CBs also don't give you much support. Lets face it, your corners aren't good and its ironic IMO that when they match up vs. our WRs its like seeing the Clippers play the Hawks, two sorry teams going at it. They don't play very well in man coverage (Manning did late in the season but dissappeared again in the SB) and that just allows Vick to lob it over and zip it in to WRs.

It takes a TOTAL team effort to defeat the Falcons w/ Vick. The offense has to stay on the field and give the defense a break. The defense has to be able to stay disciplined and MOST important, not get frustrated. Teams start getting upset and guess what they do? They start blindly rushing and blitzing Vick.

[cincykent]

Daredevil,

Do you live in Atlanta? I live in Kennesaw. I look forward to watching the Bengals defeat the Falcons in the Super Bowl after the 2005 season. I think both teams will make the playoffs this year, but 2005 will be the year both put it all together.

[cincykent]

If the Falcons only had a defense .... sounds a lot like the Bengals

[Barbarian]

Okay I didn't edit this post in any way it was directed towards Panther fans, a little, when I was posting it, so just ignore those parts.

Instead of copy and pasting my last post, I'll just go more in depth.

WARNING PANTHER FANS WILL NOT AGREE WITH SOME OF THIS CONTENT!!!!

Okay, as a Falcon fan I've only seen 3 games where Vick was shut down completely and one where he had a ton of trouble. Those three games were the Bucs (2002) the Ravens (2002) and the Colts (2003). Now a lot of people are quick to say Vick can't play well against a cover 2 which was disproved by his sound, albeit not flashy, perfomance against the Bucs in 2003. However, the KEY to defeating Vick is discipline!

Teams that just rush the QB will be murdered vs. Vick. You can not wildly go after him, he will burn you every time. However, disciplined teams that stay in their lanes will have a prayer.

Next comes team speed. Your defense better be fast as a unit not in one area. Vick is such an amazing player because each area of the defense has to account for him every down. Your defense as a unit has to be able to react to his whereabouts and converge on him. This fits the discipline them, because if you were in your gap you should always be able to spot Vick and be able to have help. The Bucs and Ravens did this masterfully. They converge on the ball like killer bees.

Your secondary also has to be good in both man and zone coverage. You will have to switch up unless your LBs have contained Vick (see the teams above). Generally teams will open up against us in zone coverage to see what Vick is going to do. That was why we overpaid for Price, he was a deep threat that would force teams to play man, taking one man out of the picture when Vick scrambles to that side. However, if you're sound in each are, Vick has no one to throw to because our WRs aren't good enough to break good coverage by themselves, and none of them opens up the field for the others.

Now, relating back to the Panthers (sorry you're the best defense to pick on) here's why they don't have great success. The front 4 is damn good, that's a given. However, they also tend to overpursue and go after the QB too strong. Mistake #1 is going after Vick in a blind rush. Next is the LBs, who really just don't do anything against Vick. Now I am FULLY aware that Dan Morgan would make a collosal difference, but a lot of Panther fans think that eliminates Vick totally, which it doesn't. It takes, a fast TEAM defense, not one fast player to stop Vick. Morgan would make life a lot harder for #7 and would have forced Vick to make shorter runs, but I still do not believe he would have changed the total outcome of the games. Your CBs also don't give you much support. Lets face it, your corners aren't good and its ironic IMO that when they match up vs. our WRs its like seeing the Clippers play the Hawks, two sorry teams going at it. They don't play very well in man coverage (Manning did late in the season but dissappeared again in the SB) and that just allows Vick to lob it over and zip it in to WRs.

It takes a TOTAL team effort to defeat the Falcons w/ Vick. The offense has to stay on the field and give the defense a break. The defense has to be able to stay disciplined and MOST important, not get frustrated. Teams start getting upset and guess what they do? They start blindly rushing and blitzing Vick.

Mike Vick = THE MOST OVERRATED PROFESSIONAL PLAYER ON THE PLANET.

[chrishcovga]

I have to agree with Barbarella on this one , Falcon quarterbacks don't have a history of staying healthy. Every time they get a good one, Steve Barkowski, Chris Miller, Chris Chandler, and now Michael Vick , they always spend more time on IR, than on the Field.

* Vick had one very promising season in '02. He was hurt all last year, and his style of play leads him to being Injury Prone. he hasn't even been to a Pro Bowl ! One playoff win, and in the loss to the Eagles Brian Dawkins put a hurt on him. Falcons' line sucks again, so don't be surprised if he'll be wearing a cast again somewhere on his body in '04 !

[Kirkendall]

I have to agree with Barbarella on this one , Falcon quarterbacks don't have a history of staying healthy. Every time they get a good one, Steve Barkowski, Chris Miller, Chris Chandler, and now Michael Vick , they always spend more time on IR, than on the Field.

* Vick had one very promising season in '02. He was hurt all last year, and his style of play leads him to being Injury Prone. he hasn't even been to a Pro Bowl ! One playoff win, and in the loss to the Eagles Brian Dawkins put a hurt on him. Falcons' line sucks again, so don't be surprised if he'll be wearing a cast again somewhere on his body in '04 !

I agree. I just think Vick needs to prove his worth before everyone floats his name out as greatness in the wings.

[daredevil25]

I've always laughed at people saying "the style of Vick's play leads to injuries" yet out of his two pro injuries only one came from being outside the pocket and vastly helped by Vick doing one of him horrible attempts to slide. He does play an unsafe, unorthodox style but his tendency to scramble is accelerated by the poor protection of our line passing. That was a MAJOR reason we went out and got Alex Gibbs and paid him like many teams head coach.

[cincykent]

Daredevil,

Do you live in Atlanta? I live in Kennesaw. I look forward to watching the Bengals defeat the Falcons in the Super Bowl after the 2005 season. I think both teams will make the playoffs this year, but 2005 will be the year both put it all together.

Nobody seemed to complain about Steve Young when he scrambled for all those yards during his career.

[daredevil25]

cincykent, sorry about not answering your question earlier. No, I don't live in Atlanta anymore. I lived around the area from 91-96 and visited twice in 97 and 98. Since 97 I've pretty much been a fan, and since I live in Cali now you can imagine how hard that is w/ all these Niner, Raider and......Cowboy fans. You know, that would be a very interesting Super Bowl that has more story than people realize. Rich McKay wanted Marvin Lewis to be his coach after Tony Dungy, and that same year McKay was HIGHLY recruited by Falcons owner Arthur Blank. Basically Marvin Lewis "could" have been the Falcons coach instead of the Bengals. I'm still happy w/ both the moves our teams have made and I think 2006 is the year for us. If Palmer develops right (I think he will) then that could definitely be your year as well.