So What is the official draft pick number?

[AGrizzlyBaer]

Who is Matt?

i think he is saying matt millen the lions gm who has drafted a wr in the first oh 4 of the last 5?

[Pidge]

Who is Matt?

i think he is saying matt millen the lions gm who has drafted a wr in the first oh 4 of the last 5?

Yep.

[HoosierCat]

Draft order from nfl.com...it's official, we're No. 9.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d...mp;confirm=true

[membengal]

I am not going to re-visit my argument for a WR early from last year before the draft, but I stand by it.

The Matt Millen joke would work if the Bengals had invested a series of high picks at WR this decade. They have not. They are living on the 2001 draft, and hoping that Chris Henry stays out of trouble. For a team with Carson Palmer at QB, this is dangerous.

Why pick a WR high when you have a qb like Palmer? Because you need receivers to make it go. Anthony Gonzalez waves hi at everyone from the first round of Indy's draft last year. And they had Harrison and Wayne. And, oh wait, Harrison got hurt. Huh. Go figure.

[Pidge]

I am not going to re-visit my argument for a WR early from last year before the draft, but I stand by it.

The Matt Millen joke would work if the Bengals had invested a series of high picks at WR this decade. They have not. They are living on the 2001 draft, and hoping that Chris Henry stays out of trouble. For a team with Carson Palmer at QB, this is dangerous.

Why pick a WR high when you have a qb like Palmer? Because you need receivers to make it go. Anthony Gonzalez waves hi at everyone from the first round of Indy's draft last year. And they had Harrison and Wayne. And, oh wait, Harrison got hurt. Huh. Go figure.

And I'd agree with you if there weren't far more glaring needs for this team. The main reason for the stuttering offense is not recieving corps or QB play or lack of talent at RB. It's a patchy Oline, IMO. Drafting a WR, a position that even without Henry can't be described as threadbare compared to many teams, would completely ignore the many more more pressing needs of the defensive front 7 and Oline. Unless said reciever is the second coming of Jerry Rice, we'd be nuts as a franchise to draft a WR early on.

The Colts also have the luxury of having a great FO team that can evaluate talent from lower rounds/FA to fit their system. Thus leaving them free to draft a reciever. The Colts drafted with a Superbowl run in mind. I'll settle for drafting to try and get our defence up to something resembling average. Drafting WR early for us would get us no further to getting to the playoffs, IMO, nevermind one day challenging for a Superbowl.

We have something like 10 picks this year though, I think. Maybe we can find a diamond in the rough in a mid to late round.

[Kirkendall]

It's a patchy Oline, IMO.

(sigh) I'm not picking on you, Pidge. But the o-line allowed a franchise low 17 sacks. At some point we need to get out of the mindset that our passing offensive woes is the result of the o-line.

[membengal]

Really? Far more glaring needs? Did it look like the offense was humming along to you this year? The offense was just as broke as the defense, something that a bunch of us old-timers on here were murmuring about way back in the off-season. And you don't have to scratch HaironFire very hard to get him to list the ways in the which the offense failed during the season.

No WR? Fine. But some high draft picks must be poured into the offense somwhere. The line, RB (since everyone keeps breaking), WR, TE. You name it, they have NOT been drafting for it. And it is showing up.

Drafting for defense? That's fine, but hold NO illusions that that is what they HAVE been doing. And where has that gotten them, exactly? And how long do you do that to the exclusion of the offense? Or infusing talent in the offense? Not. much. longer.

Or you will waste the Carson Palmer years. Watch and see.

[membengal]

All of which is to say, it is NOT as simple as "drafting defense". They better get the guy with the most value and upside at #9 overall, and if that is a WR or RB, so be it. If Darren McFadden falls to #9? I could make the argument to draft him. Easily.

I can make the same arguments for a number of players. But I don't think the team should be as myopic with its approach to the draft and its needs as the fanbase is. Happily, I don't think they will be. There enough areas on this sinking ship that need plugging that they should be able to find immediate help at #9. I hope.

[Pidge]

Really? Far more glaring needs? Did it look like the offense was humming along to you this year? The offense was just as broke as the defense, something that a bunch of us old-timers on here were murmuring about way back in the off-season. And you don't have to scratch HaironFire very hard to get him to list the ways in the which the offense failed during the season.

No WR? Fine. But some high draft picks must be poured into the offense somwhere. The line, RB (since everyone keeps breaking), WR, TE. You name it, they have NOT been drafting for it. And it is showing up.

Drafting for defense? That's fine, but hold NO illusions that that is what they HAVE been doing. And where has that gotten them, exactly? And how long do you do that to the exclusion of the offense? Or infusing talent in the offense? Not. much. longer.

Or you will waste the Carson Palmer years. Watch and see.

I still maintain that the D sucks great donkey compared to our stuttering offense. Like it's a shock how bad we are defensively. You make some good points though. The Oline is in need of talent and depth for sure. Maybe the best way to go to get a couple of playoff appearances is to try and make the offence insanely good. Plus, there must be someone floating around the organisation that realises that a TE can do more than block? Surely, just one guy must know this?

Jeez, we'll need flawless drafting and an insane amount of luck to do anything of note during Carson's career it seems. With a defence in the bottom 5, nevermind bottom 10 then Carson and the rest of the offense will earn all their one and done appearances.

Can't we just get new owners. *stamps foot*

[Pidge]

All of which is to say, it is NOT as simple as "drafting defense". They better get the guy with the most value and upside at #9 overall, and if that is a WR or RB, so be it. If Darren McFadden falls to #9? I could make the argument to draft him. Easily.

I can make the same arguments for a number of players. But I don't think the team should be as myopic with its approach to the draft and its needs as the fanbase is. Happily, I don't think they will be. There enough areas on this sinking ship that need plugging that they should be able to find immediate help at #9. I hope.

Well indeed. I suppose the thing that really ties "our" hands is the whole FA thing. How realistic is it that SoP will go and get a couple of defensive studs in FA to allow us to look at offense in the draft?

For all the talk of a talented team underperforming, I see far more mediocrity than talent.

[membengal]

Even if he doesn't go get FA studs (which he won't), it won't change that "drafting for defense" will likely NOT yield impacts enough to help this team in 2008 on that side of the ball.

Now, will spending some early draft capital on offense be the same? For my money, no. Because CP is good enough that given tools, there can be immediate impacts to the offense that can help cover the D's copious sins.

And, I would submit, that a lot of the frustration this year was that the offense did not do its part to help cover the D's sins.

[HoosierCat]

Now, will spending some early draft capital on offense be the same? For my money, no. Because CP is good enough that given tools, there can be immediate impacts to the offense that can help cover the D's copious sins.

I agree. Slant the draft toward offense, buy defense in FA.

[membengal]

Word hoosier. That would be my plan too, were it me in charge. Make a call, let's execute this plan.

[bengalspride1219]

WR? Oh, why the heck not, eh?

what round do you think this guy will get drafted

[Kazkal]

WR? Oh, why the heck not, eh?

what round do you think this guy will get drafted

Um Round 1 and the first WR off the board.

[HairOnFire]

The good news (or as good as you can get with a 7-9 record) is that in Round 1 we pick 9th

In Round 2 we pick 15. (That would be the 46th player since New England forfeited their No. 1.)

Yup. For those who worried about what the victory over Cleveland cost the Bengals the answer is..... six slots in the 2nd round, and comparably lower draft position in half of the lower rounds.

Speaking only for myself I'd happily pay that price every year to knock a ten-win Cleveland team out of the playoffs.

[damiancasey]

The good news (or as good as you can get with a 7-9 record) is that in Round 1 we pick 9th

In Round 2 we pick 15. (That would be the 46th player since New England forfeited their No. 1.)

Yup. For those who worried about what the victory over Cleveland cost the Bengals the answer is..... six slots in the 2nd round, and comparably lower draft position in half of the lower rounds.

Speaking only for myself I'd happily pay that price every year to knock a ten-win Cleveland team out of the playoffs.

A - freaking - MEN

[kingwilly]

Now, will spending some early draft capital on offense be the same? For my money, no. Because CP is good enough that given tools, there can be immediate impacts to the offense that can help cover the D's copious sins.

I agree. Slant the draft toward offense, buy defense in FA.

Uh, this is an awful idea. Should CJ, TJ and Henry all be on the roster by the time the draft rolls around, there is no way this should be considered. Fire Brat and that would solve 70% of the defensive problems.

"cover the D's copious sins"???? isn't that what they had last year? how'd that work out?

It is thinking like this that has plagued the team since 04.

No WR or RB in r1 or r2. not DeSean Jackson (all 160 lbs of him) or McFadden, who I think is very overrated.

There should be one thing on the mind for day 1: DEFENSE.

I concede that they should look at an OT and TE as BPA if they get a guy snatched out from unde them that they wanted but to take a WR early, when there is not a true stand-out guy, would be a terrible mistake. There are tons of guys who can be had late, with not nearly the same fall-off as the top defensive players in the draft.

the time to take a WR was in 06 when Demetrius Williams and Brandon Marshall were still there in the 4th round. Marshall was the player to snag, it was obvious. Instead they waste a pick on Reggie McNeal. stupid.

Further, there will be some decent WR's in FA if there is still a need.

[membengal]

No, because they didn't cover the D's sins. They let the D down. And they did so because they are showing age and wear and tear from too many years being ignored no draft day. Agree to disagree on throwing pick after pick at defense again to exclusion of offense. It's a mistake.

How has it plagued the team since '04? Go back and add up first four round offensive vs. defensive players and lets have that conversation. The window to strike is with Carson. Let that slide, and you waste his career. Period.

[Spor_tees]

Trade Chad to Miami for Jason Taylor sign some free agents on defense and draft Offense....

but seriously I am more for adding free agents to the defensive side of the ball and get an immediate impact instead of wasting a couple more years for them to mature. The offense is good enough that a couple young players can get infused into it and make it better and not make it take a back step. The only position that worries me is center where it is hard for a young guy to play well his first year. Mangold for the Jets outplayed Ferguson, but that is the exception more than the norm.

Also don't forget Vilma of the Jets is said to be cut this year and would bring some energy to the LB corp. Could you imagine how much better the defense would be if they let Justin Smith go, signed Terrel Suggs, and picked up Vilma?

Just another quick idea...what about trading Chad to the Falcons for Alge Crumpler and a draft pick?

Also on a side note I looked at Atlanta's roster and Ben Wilkerson is on there...he must be healing up somewhat

[membengal]

And, kingwilly, I will do a seperate thread making this point as we close in on the draft, but consider this a preview:

Starting with the 2004 draft (which you say is the timeframe for what has "plagued" this team):

6 offensive players taken in the first four rounds (three in the top 2 rounds)

13 defensive players taken in the first four rounds (5 in the top 2 rounds)

Only 1 wide receiver in that span. Only three offensive lineman in that group in that span (one of whom is Andrews, a massive project). No TEs in that span. And we are supporting our franchise $100 million dollar quarterback, how, exactly?

Just saying "PICK DEFENSE" doesn't begin to address the issue with this team. Not even close.

Peace.

--Aaron

[Pidge]

Trade Chad to Miami for Jason Taylor sign some free agents on defense and draft Offense....

but seriously I am more for adding free agents to the defensive side of the ball and get an immediate impact instead of wasting a couple more years for them to mature. The offense is good enough that a couple young players can get infused into it and make it better and not make it take a back step. The only position that worries me is center where it is hard for a young guy to play well his first year. Mangold for the Jets outplayed Ferguson, but that is the exception more than the norm.

Also don't forget Vilma of the Jets is said to be cut this year and would bring some energy to the LB corp. Could you imagine how much better the defense would be if they let Justin Smith go, signed Terrel Suggs, and picked up Vilma?

Just another quick idea...what about trading Chad to the Falcons for Alge Crumpler and a draft pick?

Also on a side note I looked at Atlanta's roster and Ben Wilkerson is on there...he must be healing up somewhat

Well I'm biased towards Miami players, especially defensive players but his knee injury seems to be quite serious. It wasn't a case of just arthroscopic. according to my sources (I've said to much already) . Terrel Suggs will get a phat wage wherever he ends up, i.e. not with us.

We could set a new standard in being an unbalanced team, which is something I guess. Top five offense and dead last defence. Something to set our sights on anyway.

[kingwilly]

And, kingwilly, I will do a seperate thread making this point as we close in on the draft, but consider this a preview:

Starting with the 2004 draft (which you say is the timeframe for what has "plagued" this team):

6 offensive players taken in the first four rounds (three in the top 2 rounds)

13 defensive players taken in the first four rounds (5 in the top 2 rounds)

Only 1 wide receiver in that span. Only three offensive lineman in that group in that span (one of whom is Andrews, a massive project). No TEs in that span. And we are supporting our franchise $100 million dollar quarterback, how, exactly?

Just saying "PICK DEFENSE" doesn't begin to address the issue with this team. Not even close.

Peace.

--Aaron

Please do. And while you are at it, make sure you highlight the strengths of each team, year by year, position by position, to pattern why such picks were dedicated to each side of the ball...and while you are at it, also factor the forseen impacts of the FA's who did come here since 02', as they will hae also driven some of the draft decision-making.

Additionally, I have posted many times, every year, as to the defensive needs. I do not bad-aid these needs on D with "pick defense" so don't generalize my comments.

In closing, please do not interpret my comments as support for how ML has drafted, as I think they do a sub-par job given the character issue-guys taken and obvious SoP infatuation with RB's.

Happy New Year!

[membengal]

King Willy wrote just earlier in this here thread:

"There should be one thing on the mind for day 1: DEFENSE."

Um, how, exactly, am I generalizing that anymore than you did yonder?

We HAVE been picking DEFENSE on DAY 1. Just sayin'. It's not as simple as now chirping in 2008 "DAY 1!" "DEFENSE!" and expecting everyone to fall into line. I will not be falling into that line. Not even close.

Oh by the way, out of the mere six first four round offensive picks in the last four drafts? Two have been horribly hurt, and one suspended beyond assistance to the team and within one more oopsie of being gone forever. That means, in the last four years, we have exactly three first four round offensive draft choices available to help this team's alleged strength...Andrews (still a massive project from the 4th round), Whitworth, and Ghuiciac (another 4th rounder). That's it. Hell, in that view, we have only one day 1 pick in the last four years healthy, non-suspension worries, etc., and that's Whitworth. Why is the offense having issues? Start with that fact.

So, yeah, count on me saying loudly and longly for months that this team canNOT ignore the offense on the first day another year. It just can't. Ignoring the offense on draft day, coupled with bad injury luck and what not, was in large measure responsible for this offenses's woes in 2007.

And, I say again, this franchise would be well served not to waste its Carson Palmer years. But it is taking significant steps toward doing just that.

ETA: In my above list, I didn't include Ahmad Brooks. He's in effect a 1st day defensive pick.

Make it 6 first four round offensive picks and 14 first four round defensive picks starting with the 2004 draft...

[ArmyBengal]

I get what you are saying in regards to the fact we have taken defense, but I can't see anything wrong with saying take defense AGAIN... Pollack and Thurman were picks that aren't making any impact and may not ever again. There have been subpar drafts and players that just haven't panned out... There have been injuries and people leaving in free agency. The free agents that have come here were middle of the road or garbage in my opinion. JJoe and Hall were two picks that were must haves and before we took JJoe, do you remember how long it had been since the Bengals took a CB in the 1st ?? FOREVER !!! To just say defense is a little vague, so I will try to narrow my comments...

JUST DRAFT FRONT 7 !!! DT, DE, and LB's are a HUGE need for this team.

The offense has needs and to ignore them is obviously a dangerous path to follow, but to not trying to continually better the GLARING deficiency of this team is even more dangerous. I love listening to the conversations about the draft and look forward to this for the next 4 months. Nothing personal, just opinion...

WHODEY !!!