Marvin Wants a GM?

[HoosierCat]

Uhhh, no. That's the point. GM's have the power to ignore Marvin's wishes in regards to draft picks, free agents, or his own roster. And that same GM could ignore performance and because a personality clash fire Marvin in exactly the same manner that resulted in Marty Schottenheimer spending his Sunday afternoons watching his grandaughter make a boombie.

You're getting hung up over the letters "GM," I think. A "traditional" GM with power over the coaching staff isn't what PFT says Marvin is after; he allegedly wants a personnel guy. Think Scott Pioli, whose actual title up in NE isn't GM, but VP, player personnel. And if the report is true, I have no doubt that he's got someone in mind, making any personality clash unlikely. The guy would effectively work for Marvin, not the other way around.

[Spor_tees]

Uhhh, no. That's the point. GM's have the power to ignore Marvin's wishes in regards to draft picks, free agents, or his own roster. And that same GM could ignore performance and because a personality clash fire Marvin in exactly the same manner that resulted in Marty Schottenheimer spending his Sunday afternoons watching his grandaughter make a boombie.

You're getting hung up over the letters "GM," I think. A "traditional" GM with power over the coaching staff isn't what PFT says Marvin is after; he allegedly wants a personnel guy. Think Scott Pioli, whose actual title up in NE isn't GM, but VP, player personnel. And if the report is true, I have no doubt that he's got someone in mind, making any personality clash unlikely. The guy would effectively work for Marvin, not the other way around.

Isn't this basically what John Cooper already does?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Uhhh, no. That's the point. GM's have the power to ignore Marvin's wishes in regards to draft picks, free agents, or his own roster. And that same GM could ignore performance and because a personality clash fire Marvin in exactly the same manner that resulted in Marty Schottenheimer spending his Sunday afternoons watching his grandaughter make a boombie.

You're getting hung up over the letters "GM," I think. A "traditional" GM with power over the coaching staff isn't what PFT says Marvin is after; he allegedly wants a personnel guy. Think Scott Pioli, whose actual title up in NE isn't GM, but VP, player personnel. And if the report is true, I have no doubt that he's got someone in mind, making any personality clash unlikely. The guy would effectively work for Marvin, not the other way around.

Isn't this basically what John Cooper already does?

Not really - part-time scout from his home office... They need more than that.

[HoosierCat]

Isn't this basically what John Cooper already does?

Actually, it's what Duke Tobin is supposed to be doing as the current director of player personnel. Or maybe Paul Brown, the veep of player personnel...or Pete Brown, the senior veep of player personnel. Who really knows, eh? The Bengals have a lot of cooks in this particular kitchen, and very few of their draft day "dinners" have been very good.

There's certainly something to be said for rationalizing this department. Throw in football ops director Lippy and you have four "chiefs" overseeing just five "Indians:" one (one!!!) scout, three scouting consultants and a personnel assistant. If I were Marvin I know I'd prefer more boots on the ground and fewer butts in the chairs.

I'd also probably prefer at least one other voice in the draft room who isn't related to, or a longtime crony of, the owner.

[HairOnFire]

You're getting hung up over the letters "GM," I think. A "traditional" GM with power over the coaching staff isn't what PFT says Marvin is after; he allegedly wants a personnel guy.

Sorry, but I'm not getting hung up over the title. I'm reacting to what the article actually says.

"A league source now tells us that coach Marvin Lewis is lobbying internally for the hiring of a General Manager who would assume responsibility for shaping the team's personnel."

[ShulaSteakhouse]

This is what happens when you have enough scouts and a good talent hawking GM:

Why the Colts are the Colts and Bengals are the Bengals

Indy Star

If you want to know why the Colts have become the gold standard in the National Football League, consider how they rolled Tampa Bay on Sunday with six starters on the sidelines. The front office doesn't only hit on most of its first-day draft picks, but it has a ridiculous success rate on the second day, and they do a better job with undrafted free agents than anybody in the league.

No Joseph Addai-Marvin Harrison-Bob Sanders-Ben Utecht-Aaron Moorehead-T.J. Rushing-Rob Morris-Freddy Keiaho?

No problem.

"It's a tribute to the scouting staff, unearthing those guys,'' team president Bill Polian said in the locker room. "Second, it's a tribute to the coaching staff, and most of all, Tony (Dungy). If a guy can play, it doesn't matter to Tony where he comes from or what his pedigree is.''

[HairOnFire]

I'd also probably prefer at least one other voice in the draft room who isn't related to, or a longtime crony of, the owner.

You're arguing with yourself. Both Duke Tobin and John Cooper have made their bones elsewhere, as did Marvin Lewis. So within the Bengals warroom there are already numerous powerful voices who aren't related to the hated soP or his incompetent spawn. In fact, past Bengal head coaches have unanimously stated that ownership almost never interfered with their selections, and only pulled rank whenever the Bengals were drafting very high in the 1st round....something that has only happened once in the Marvin Lewis era. Second guess the result of that selection, Carson Palmer, at your own risk.

Finally, the argument that the Bengals should hire more scouts is an entirely different issue than the one claimed by PFT. Scouts are low-level worker bees whose influence goes no further than the written evaluation of individual college players. They aren't consulted about the overall team building strategies that define the duties of a general manager. Nor would an additional director of scouting add something to the mix that the Bengals don't already have....as you've already pointed out.