gozz2403 Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I'm new to the board, so hello all. After watching yet another national television debacle, I have decided to vent here. Here goes...Looking back on the past Marvin Lewis era drafts, I can't help but second guess 5 of his pics. Taking all 1st rounders out of the equation, there are 5 picks in his regime that were total swing and misses.2003- 3rd Round - Kelley Washington, WR.-has done very little as a bengal or patriot. Could have had- Lance Briggs , OLB. stud LB with multiple pro bowls.2004- 3rd Round- Caleb Miller, MLB. very undersized LB who doesn't bring a whole lot to the table. Could have had -Chris Cooley, TE/FB- The 3rd option threat we could have, but are stuck with....2005- 3rd Round- Chris Henry WR- you can run stats by me all day, but truth is he kills you in the dependable department, which cancels out a TD every 6 catches. Could have had Kerry Rhodes, SS.- Soon to be arguably the top safety in football, along with Polamalu and Reed. Can cover and tackle. Also in the.....2005 - 2nd Round- Odell Thurman MLB- Basically out of the league after showing signs of pro bowl ability. The signs were there about his character which were obviosly ignored. Could have had Lofa Tatupu MLB- smart instinctive, multiple pro bowls. 2006- 3rd Round- Frostee Rucker DE. Has done nothing but give the organization even more of a black eye. Could have had Elvis Dumervil DE- Has done nothing but give QB's black eyes in limited roles. I guess he was too small-maybe if he had been the one to stomp on Marcus Vick, we'd have him.With just these 5 players my friends, we have ourselves a legit 3-1 team, with serious superbowl chances. With Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis at the helm, this team will never reach it's potential, and sadly a once in a decade talent like Carson Palmer will be wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Welcome, gozz. The Kwash vs. Lance Briggs pick definitely hurts, doesn't it?I'll give Rucker a pass for the moment. The Non-Dairy Dessert hasn't had a chance to show what -- if anything -- he can do. Hopefully he shows something...soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalPappaw Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 It still upsets me that we could have had Ko Simpson instead of Frostee. Frostee hasn't done much -- but Ko Simpson is (was) contributing to the Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I'm new to the board, so hello all. After watching yet another national television debacle, I have decided to vent here. Here goes...Looking back on the past Marvin Lewis era drafts, I can't help but second guess 5 of his pics. Taking all 1st rounders out of the equation, there are 5 picks in his regime that were total swing and misses.2003- 3rd Round - Kelley Washington, WR.-has done very little as a bengal or patriot. Could have had- Lance Briggs , OLB. stud LB with multiple pro bowls.2004- 3rd Round- Caleb Miller, MLB. very undersized LB who doesn't bring a whole lot to the table. Could have had -Chris Cooley, TE/FB- The 3rd option threat we could have, but are stuck with....2005- 3rd Round- Chris Henry WR- you can run stats by me all day, but truth is he kills you in the dependable department, which cancels out a TD every 6 catches. Could have had Kerry Rhodes, SS.- Soon to be arguably the top safety in football, along with Polamalu and Reed. Can cover and tackle. Also in the.....2005 - 2nd Round- Odell Thurman MLB- Basically out of the league after showing signs of pro bowl ability. The signs were there about his character which were obviosly ignored. Could have had Lofa Tatupu MLB- smart instinctive, multiple pro bowls. 2006- 3rd Round- Frostee Rucker DE. Has done nothing but give the organization even more of a black eye. Could have had Elvis Dumervil DE- Has done nothing but give QB's black eyes in limited roles. I guess he was too small-maybe if he had been the one to stomp on Marcus Vick, we'd have him.With just these 5 players my friends, we have ourselves a legit 3-1 team, with serious superbowl chances. With Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis at the helm, this team will never reach it's potential, and sadly a once in a decade talent like Carson Palmer will be wasted.not trying to be a jerk but this is ridiculous, hindsight is always 20/20. to say that this team will never reach it's potential is also ridiculous, you don't know what this team can do. If you don't like the owner and the coach and you think they are just going to waste away why r u even a fan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 not trying to be a jerk but this is ridiculous, hindsight is always 20/20. to say that this team will never reach it's potential is also ridiculous, you don't know what this team can do. If you don't like the owner and the coach and you think they are just going to waste away why r u even a fan?I'm kinda leaning this way. It's simply not fair to substitute your judgment after watching what guys have done in the league for a few years for moves made at that time. Cherry picking may be fun, but it's not realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 2006- 3rd Round- Frostee Rucker DE. Has done nothing but give the organization even more of a black eye. Could have had Elvis Dumervil DE- Has done nothing but give QB's black eyes in limited roles. I guess he was too small-maybe if he had been the one to stomp on Marcus Vick, we'd have him.Meh....comments like that just make you sound like you just got done reading PFT. This may come as a surprise, but the Bengals have had virtually no criminal issues this year. Far less than the league average I would venture. Old news and, IMO, not really funny or current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Re patternmaster & BBTB...guess you missed the part where gozz admitted to begin with that he was second-guessing things?Sheesh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 ok, this can be a fun "what if..." gamehere are a couple:Dennis Weathersby - 2003 r4/98...shot right after being drafted...sad demise, not his faultinstead we had takenAsante Samuel - 2003 r4/120...top-tier CB on top D in football>>another<<AJ Nicholson - 2006 r5/157...known issues/now cutinstead we had takenMark Anderson - 2006 r5/159...excellent DE for Chicago, 12 sacks in rookie year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Re patternmaster & BBTB...guess you missed the part where gozz admitted to begin with that he was second-guessing things?Sheesh...Okay, then the point again was????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Re patternmaster & BBTB...guess you missed the part where gozz admitted to begin with that he was second-guessing things?Sheesh...Okay, then the point again was?????That sports message boards are in large part about second-guessing and hindsight. I mean, if we are going to declare looking backward illegal, we may as well shut the place down, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 <---Starts boarding up the windows...turn off the lights the party is over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGrizzlyBaer Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 just wanted to point out Tatupu was drafted before odell so we couldnt have had a shot at him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlainThePain Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 I'm new to the board, so hello all. After watching yet another national television debacle, I have decided to vent here. Here goes...Looking back on the past Marvin Lewis era drafts, I can't help but second guess 5 of his pics. Taking all 1st rounders out of the equation, there are 5 picks in his regime that were total swing and misses.2003- 3rd Round - Kelley Washington, WR.-has done very little as a bengal or patriot. Could have had- Lance Briggs , OLB. stud LB with multiple pro bowls.2004- 3rd Round- Caleb Miller, MLB. very undersized LB who doesn't bring a whole lot to the table. Could have had -Chris Cooley, TE/FB- The 3rd option threat we could have, but are stuck with....2005- 3rd Round- Chris Henry WR- you can run stats by me all day, but truth is he kills you in the dependable department, which cancels out a TD every 6 catches. Could have had Kerry Rhodes, SS.- Soon to be arguably the top safety in football, along with Polamalu and Reed. Can cover and tackle. Also in the.....2005 - 2nd Round- Odell Thurman MLB- Basically out of the league after showing signs of pro bowl ability. The signs were there about his character which were obviosly ignored. Could have had Lofa Tatupu MLB- smart instinctive, multiple pro bowls. 2006- 3rd Round- Frostee Rucker DE. Has done nothing but give the organization even more of a black eye. Could have had Elvis Dumervil DE- Has done nothing but give QB's black eyes in limited roles. I guess he was too small-maybe if he had been the one to stomp on Marcus Vick, we'd have him.With just these 5 players my friends, we have ourselves a legit 3-1 team, with serious superbowl chances. With Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis at the helm, this team will never reach it's potential, and sadly a once in a decade talent like Carson Palmer will be wasted.I remember every fan and media pundit thought Kelley Washington was a good pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinneymulleT Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 I would have taken odell anyday. He was worth the risk. I guess scouts might have been able to predict his fall but I was thrilled when we got him. KW also looked good at the time, and he did perform well enough with a few td's and some entertaining dance moves, but we got henry(or had) to fill the 3rd reciever role and he became expendable. I wish we had him now to fill our 3rd receiver role. The other late rounders are total 20/20 hindsight, although many including myself have been begging for a safety(not darnell bing) and ko was ripe, and dummerville seemed like a no brainer(i think there is a pun in there somewhere). Caleb and Landon were reaches. I think that is the bigger issue, that we took to many players that would have been available in later rounds(see frostee the snowman). Also is at issue is ML's blind loyalty to players he drafted. It seems at times he is more interested in proving himself right, rather than putting the best players on the roster/field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damiancasey Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 not trying to be a jerk but this is ridiculous, hindsight is always 20/20. to say that this team will never reach it's potential is also ridiculous, you don't know what this team can do. If you don't like the owner and the coach and you think they are just going to waste away why r u even a fan?I'm kinda leaning this way. It's simply not fair to substitute your judgment after watching what guys have done in the league for a few years for moves made at that time. Cherry picking may be fun, but it's not realistic.Gotta agree - it is fun to second guess but really it's just a big game of "what if" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Guys, don't forget...to be completely effective in scouting draft picks you need to have an effective scouting department!!!!Or at least an effective system....How many scouts do the Bengals employ again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 I am not upset they took Kdub...he served his role and stepped up when called. Part of what has made the Odell pick so disheartening is that he was stellar his rookie year and then just fell apart. At some point a player needs to be an adult but if the club is going to roll the dice with guys like Cheech and Odell, they need to have babysitters working their azzes off keeping them out of trouble (easier said than done).Since their is no recourse here, this is just interiesting to re-look at who was taken around the guys we took and what impact they have had. I am not sure I would have picked any different if I was equipped with the info and exposure to the guys they look at, but in hindsight it become easy to see where some obvious mistakes were made.What strikes me about re-looking at the draft is that the Bengals seem to not be learing their lesson with regards to the character issue. The 07 draft was the first year since 03 we did not take a known "character" guy. Maybe they have revised the criteria by which they judge players, or at least re-prioritized thier list.Overall, I think they are drafting pretty well. I called the 06 draft the Worst Draft Ever. With what I considered reaches in r1 (joseph) and r2 (whitworth), a character/injury guy in r3 Frostee, an average r4 pick in Peko...it was a dud. However, Joseph has emerged, Whitworth is holding his own and Peko is starting (albeit on one of the worst D's in the NFL). Not as bad as I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 In regards to Chris Henry, nothing cancels out a TD every six catches. Nothing. And before anyone reminds me of his suspension keep in mind Henry has outscored every WR drafted ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Shame on the Bengals for passing on Tom Brady five straight rounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 If you don't like the owner and the coach and you think they are just going to waste away why r u even a fan?If that was the standard, none of us would have made it through the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Shame on the Bengals for passing on Tom Brady five straight rounds!Shame on the other 31 teams too. Heck, shame on the Patriots for waiting until round 6 to get him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwillycuse Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 I was thinking the same thing about Brady. You cant do this hindsight thing. We have a couple late rounders that have proven beneficial to the team. Shame on the rest of the NFL for passing on TJ.Anyway, heres to Frostee, Chris, Ethan, Odell and all the others to, when they get back, help this team get to where we know they can be. This team should look completely different come week 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1 Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Okay, I'm coming into this thread a little late (I know...I know, I apologize for having a life) but there's one thing I've never gotten a real answer to. I never remember hearing anything about Odell's "problem" at the time he was drafted. To the best of my knowledge, no announcer or analyst made any comments about him being a "risk".Exactly what was known about Odell before the draft? Was it just rumors? I don't remember even hearing those to be honest. Can anyone here clear this up?And living here in So Cal I can tell you, most SC fans I know never thought much of Frucker. He had containment on Vince Young on that fateful last touchdown run in the Nat'l Championship game at the Rose Bowl and blew it. Of course, if you bypassed every college player that Young made look stupid you'd pass on a lot of good, solid talent I'll admit.Marvin must have seen something to spend a 3rd round pick on him...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinneymulleT Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Okay, I'm coming into this thread a little late (I know...I know, I apologize for having a life) but there's one thing I've never gotten a real answer to. I never remember hearing anything about Odell's "problem" at the time he was drafted. To the best of my knowledge, no announcer or analyst made any comments about him being a "risk".Exactly what was known about Odell before the draft? Was it just rumors? I don't remember even hearing those to be honest. Can anyone here clear this up?And living here in So Cal I can tell you, most SC fans I know never thought much of Frucker. He had containment on Vince Young on that fateful last touchdown run in the Nat'l Championship game at the Rose Bowl and blew it. Of course, if you bypassed every college player that Young made look stupid you'd pass on a lot of good, solid talent I'll admit.Marvin must have seen something to spend a 3rd round pick on him...... He was suspended from the team I believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Okay, I'm coming into this thread a little late (I know...I know, I apologize for having a life) but there's one thing I've never gotten a real answer to. I never remember hearing anything about Odell's "problem" at the time he was drafted. To the best of my knowledge, no announcer or analyst made any comments about him being a "risk".Exactly what was known about Odell before the draft? Was it just rumors? I don't remember even hearing those to be honest. Can anyone here clear this up?And living here in So Cal I can tell you, most SC fans I know never thought much of Frucker. He had containment on Vince Young on that fateful last touchdown run in the Nat'l Championship game at the Rose Bowl and blew it. Of course, if you bypassed every college player that Young made look stupid you'd pass on a lot of good, solid talent I'll admit.Marvin must have seen something to spend a 3rd round pick on him...... He was kicked off the team in Ga for awhile for using pot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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