Thanks Lance...

[Spor_tees]

First off Onyx...I wouldn't call the players Marvin has brought in as "serviceable." If they were serviceable the Bengals wouldn't be in the position they are in now.

Secondly, the Bengals were still in that playoff game with the Steelers despite Carson getting hurt early in the game. In fact they were winning at half-time before the infamous "blow up." Was Marvin responsible for not keeping his team focused during that game? I think so.

Thirdly (I'm sure it isn't a word) Dennis Green did blow up after that Bears game. But if you were the coach of that team trying to build something with Bill Bidwell as your owner and not willing to put any money into the team until after they moved into a new stadium, you would have been edgy too. The biggest free agent he was given was Kurt Warner, an aged pocket passer that he had to stick behind an abysmal O-line without any type of a running game. That was a recipe for disaster. The cardinals are now a better team with the new pieces that have been put in place after Bidwell opened up his wallet and spent a few dollars. Both losses this year have been by 3 points each. I don't think they would be any worse this year if Dennis Green was still the coach.

Fourthly, is there anything wrong with San Fran's high hopes? I wish some people around here would raise their standards a little too.

Fifthly, don't take away credit for what Sean Peyton did last year with the Saints by saying they played in an easy division. Unless they had some college teams on their schedule I didn't know about, they were all NFL professional teams. I think it is pretty obvious after the Bengals loss to the Browns two weeks ago, any team can beat another team on any given Sunday...

Lastly, regardless of the age of Herman Edwards team, didn't he lead a team to the playoffs that lost their starting QB in the first game of the season? Pretty good job by a first year coach if you ask me.

Yeah on another board I was goofing around saying the Bengals should trade up for Reggie. Funny thing is, the Bengals have now spent 2 separate second round draft picks to try and get a guy that can do some of the same things as Reggie. First was Chris Perry, and we know how that has turned out, and most recently on Kenny Irons. If you look back at the 2006 draft, there are 3 draftees no longer with the team a 5th, 6th, and 7th, and a player that I don't think has played a regular season down yet in 3rd rounder Frostee Rucker. Sure J-Joe had a good rookie year, but injuries have stunted his development this year and his play can be categorized as average as best. Whitworth has been a great find as a second rounder. I still believe the Bengals could have traded up without giving away the entire draft.

[ONYX]

First off Onyx...I wouldn't call the players Marvin has brought in as "serviceable." If they were serviceable the Bengals wouldn't be in the position they are in now.

Not true at all. John Thornton, Reggie Kelly and Dexter Jackson all start and we would be hurting even more without them.

Secondly, the Bengals were still in that playoff game with the Steelers despite Carson getting hurt early in the game. In fact they were winning at half-time before the infamous "blow up." Was Marvin responsible for not keeping his team focused during that game? I think so.

That is ridiculous. I think Jon Kitna's inabilty to lead the Bengals to any second half

scoring drives and his inability to avoid turning the ball over is the main reason we lost the game.

Thirdly (I'm sure it isn't a word) Dennis Green did blow up after that Bears game. But if you were the coach of that team trying to build something with Bill Bidwell as your owner and not willing to put any money into the team until after they moved into a new stadium, you would have been edgy too. The biggest free agent he was given was Kurt Warner, an aged pocket passer that he had to stick behind an abysmal O-line without any type of a running game. That was a recipe for disaster. The cardinals are now a better team with the new pieces that have been put in place after Bidwell opened up his wallet and spent a few dollars. Both losses this year have been by 3 points each. I don't think they would be any worse this year if Dennis Green was still the coach.

Wrong. That is simply not true. The Cardinals spent big money acquiring Edgerton James from the Colts during Green's tenure...and Bertrand Berry didn't come cheap either. Green simply lost control of that team....his

players quit playing for him.

Fourthly, is there anything wrong with San Fran's high hopes? I wish some people around here would raise their standards a little too.

This is the point I wish you'd understand.....you have to consider the climate or the enviroment at the time of the

events. Through out the 80's and the first half of the 90's the 49ers won 5 world championships. People forget, the

49ers ran off George Siefert and he won a Super Bowl for them (with Walsh's players ofcourse)

So the level of expectations was as high as it got. Mariucci didn't deliver the hardware so he got ran out of town

too. Now fast forward unto today....after nearly a decade of poor football in San Fransisco, I bet the fans and

management would be pretty damn happy for at least one playoff appearence in the near future. And I gaurentee

that their level of expectations is not as high as it used to be.

Do you remember the level of expectation here in Cincinnati before Marvin arrived?

Fifthly, don't take away credit for what Sean Peyton did last year with the Saints by saying they played in an easy division. Unless they had some college teams on their schedule I didn't know about, they were all NFL professional teams. I think it is pretty obvious after the Bengals loss to the Browns two weeks ago, any team can beat another team on any given Sunday...

I had no intentions to discredit Peyton, I will give credit where credit is due, the Saints had a great year last year. The question now is are they really as good as we thought or were they just a one year wonder.

Lastly, regardless of the age of Herman Edwards team, didn't he lead a team to the playoffs that lost their starting QB in the first game of the season? Pretty good job by a first year coach if you ask me.

Never meant to discredit Edwards either, I just tried to point out that it wasnt like he came into the job with a

empty cupboard like Marvin did. Edwards did a great job of coaching last year despite losing Trent Green. But

he did still have Larry Johnson, Tony Gonzales and at least an average defense to work with.

With that said, Edwards had a good first year at New York too.........

Yeah on another board I was goofing around saying the Bengals should trade up for Reggie. Funny thing is, the Bengals have now spent 2 separate second round draft picks to try and get a guy that can do some of the same things as Reggie. First was Chris Perry, and we know how that has turned out, and most recently on Kenny Irons. If you look back at the 2006 draft, there are 3 draftees no longer with the team a 5th, 6th, and 7th, and a player that I don't think has played a regular season down yet in 3rd rounder Frostee Rucker. Sure J-Joe had a good rookie year, but injuries have stunted his development this year and his play can be categorized as average as best. Whitworth has been a great find as a second rounder. I still believe the Bengals could have traded up without giving away the entire draft.

No bro, you werent goofin, you were dead serious....your last sentence proves it. You fail to realize thet the

Bengals, who were picking in the 24th spot in the 2006 draft would have had to given up future first and second round

draft picks to move that high in the draft. If it was so easy Spor_tees, why dont we see more teams jumping from

the 20th spot to the top spot? Hell, teams picking in the top 10 still have to pay a heavy price to jump to the top

two spots. You are not being realistic. And lets not even mention that basically Bush is just a glorified third down

back and special teamer. He still has not proven he can be an elite NFL running back.