Rucker suspended!

[Stripes]

Now a player can be suspended for something he did in college? That's absolutely absurd.

[chrishcovga]

Ok, I'll be Devils' advocate and play the race card.

- Roger Gooddell is a blond haired blued eyed devil.

- The Black players in the NFL " ARE " being subjugated by the new dictator ooops, excuse me Commissioner. No I'm serious this time, - The evidence speaks for itself.

* But the most serious of crimes, is the FACT, that Cincinnati Bengal players are being more harshly punished than other players around the league.

Here are the Facts.

- Chris Henry already served a suspension last year.

- O'Dell Thurman already served a suspension last year.

( To our knowledge, Thurman has complied with all stipulations of his punishment, and missing a probation meeting is hardly worth another year suspension )

- Frostee Rucker settled in court, something that happened almost a year before he was drafted. Why is the NFL even involved with this in the first place ???

While Cincinnati had 9 players arrested, the most severe of the crimes was the breaking and entering by the Florida State Linebacker. Frostee Ruckers' kidnapping would be the actual only felony accusation.

-

- Joey Porter could have been charged with the following for his incident with Levi Jones.

1. Violation of Good Samaritan law ( witnessing a crime and not reporting it, or coming to aid of victim ) - felony

2. Theft by taking ( considering that Levi Jones was being robbed while being assaulted ) - felony

3. Assault - ( considering the facts that Levi was injured during the melee and beaten with an object ) - felonious assault

4. And a whole bunch of s**t you ain't never heard of !!!!

- The Police didn't even charge Porter with a crime !! ( Because it was Vegas and the Steelers covered the spread of the Super Bowl )

- Roger Gooddell all but forgave Joey Porter by doing the following..

1. - NO Game suspension

2. - a measley 150,000 fine - The guy just signed a 32,000,000 million dollar deal in the offseason. I don't think he'll miss it.

The Facts have it. Roger Gooddell is a blatant Racist and like the rest of the NFL, he's a Bengal Hater. He should be drawn and quartered. Boiled in oil. And then have a hot poker shoved up his ass !!

[Stripes]

The Facts have it. Roger Gooddell is a blatant Racist

I have been a Goodell critic from the start, but I've yet to see any reason to call him racist.

[HairOnFire]

Oh, I have no doubt Goodell has a special axe to grind with Cincy (thanks Mikey). But the real issue remains just how talented the prospect is going to be. Stars get kid glove treatment -- even Vick had to actually plead guilty to federal charges before His Holiness Roger would do anything. But Joe Third Stringer? His a$$ is grass.

Uhhh, that's my argument you're making. Talent trumps character. Risk/Reward ratio. Bengals no different than other teams. In fact, Ralph Wilson just weighed his options and then completely ignored Roger Goodell's vague warnings....because his team needed a new RB badly enough he pulled the trigger on Marshawn Lynch in the 1st round. And Frostees one-game suspension be damned, Ralph Wilson would do it again next year if the need was great enough.

Few NFL team wouldn't.

As for Vick, Goodell hasn't really done anything yet, and that's part of the problem. Because the indefinate suspension is little more than an empty gesture when the player is already being carted off to jail for a few years.

[chrishcovga]

The Facts have it. Roger Gooddell is a blatant Racist

I have been a Goodell critic from the start, but I've yet to see any reason to call him racist.

So what you're saying is, in Roger Goodells' first year as commisioner you have yet to see him play favorites with any particular nationality in the NFL ???

You're saying that, you haven't seen harsher punishments delivered out to Black players than white players ??

- Is that what you're saying, or do you just feel the need to debate me because of some latent inferiority complex stemming from the last mental whooping you took a week ago in another forum ??

- Help me to help you !

[HoosierCat]

Now a player can be suspended for something he did in college? That's absolutely absurd.

Yup...but if Goodell can establish he has that power...then he's solved the whole problem of drafting guys with "character issues."

Imagine this scenario: You are Joe Football. Based on your performance you are a day 1 lock. You file your papers for the NFL draft. But a-ha! Now you have come under the scrutiny of the NFL Commissioner. And let's say you had a couple run-ins with the cops, got busted on a misdemeanor pot charge, had a fight with your girlfriend, etc. So you have some "issues."

Now, since the Commish has established he can suspend people based on their college activities, he acts. He doesn't ban teams from drafting you -- but he does red-flag your draft papers. If you're signed or drafted by any NFL team, you are immediately suspended for X games based on your college arrest/trouble record. Because thanks to Frostee (if this stands) he can suspend NFL players for collegiate improprieties.

[Stripes]

- Is that what you're saying, or do you just feel the need to debate me because of some latent inferiority complex stemming from the last mental whooping you took a week ago in another forum ??

I was stating a difference in viewpoint. If you can't handle that without nerd-rage, that's not my problem. Get over yourself.

[Stripes]

The Facts have it. Roger Gooddell is a blatant Racist

I have been a Goodell critic from the start, but I've yet to see any reason to call him racist.

So what you're saying is, in Roger Goodells' first year as commisioner you have yet to see him play favorites with any particular nationality in the NFL ???

You're saying that, you haven't seen harsher punishments delivered out to Black players than white players ??

I've seen inconsistent punishment all across the board. I have seen many more variables in play than just race.

[chrishcovga]

- Is that what you're saying, or do you just feel the need to debate me because of some latent inferiority complex stemming from the last mental whooping you took a week ago in another forum ??

I was stating a difference in viewpoint. If you can't handle that without nerd-rage, that's not my problem. Get over yourself.

Actually the term " Nerd " comes from the name of a Historical Black College .. Nerd College. So now you have something against intelligent Black men too !!

Ok, So Roger Goodell is just doing his job and TDB is the racist !! Makes perfect sense to me

[HoosierCat]

Oh, I have no doubt Goodell has a special axe to grind with Cincy (thanks Mikey). But the real issue remains just how talented the prospect is going to be. Stars get kid glove treatment -- even Vick had to actually plead guilty to federal charges before His Holiness Roger would do anything. But Joe Third Stringer? His a$$ is grass.

Uhhh, that's my argument you're making. Talent trumps character. Risk/Reward ratio. Bengals no different than other teams.

No, you're mixing up discussions here. We aren't talking about whether talent trumps character in the Bengals' decision to take, for example, Odell. We're talking about whether Goodell is going to vary his punish,ent of players based on whether they are NFL stars or NFL nobodies. Which is indeed an argument you made (and you were right) but not the one you're referring to.

[Stripes]

- Is that what you're saying, or do you just feel the need to debate me because of some latent inferiority complex stemming from the last mental whooping you took a week ago in another forum ??

I was stating a difference in viewpoint. If you can't handle that without nerd-rage, that's not my problem. Get over yourself.

Actually the term " Nerd " comes from the name of a Historical Black College .. Nerd College. So now you have something against intelligent Black men too !!

Ok, So Roger Goodell is just doing his job and TDB is the racist !! Makes perfect sense to me

Yes, and everyone else who has ever used the term "nerd" is racist just like me.

I don't know when or why you decided I am such an idiot, but frankly I don't care. I don't know you, and have never had any issue with your posts. If that pleasant apathy isn't mutual between us, then I leave you to brood without my participation. Don't expect another reply.

[chrishcovga]

I Win Again !!!!!

* What Part of Devil's advocate didn't you UNderstand * ????????

[HairOnFire]

Now, since the Commish has established he can suspend people based on their college activities, he acts. He doesn't ban teams from drafting you -- but he does red-flag your draft papers. If you're signed or drafted by any NFL team, you are immediately suspended for X games based on your college arrest/trouble record. Because thanks to Frostee (if this stands) he can suspend NFL players for collegiate improprieties.

I'm no lawyer but the first thing I'd do is point out the fact that I wasn't under contract at the time of the incidents, and thus not subject to the NFL's personal conduct policy. I'd also pull up past statements made by Goodell claiming that he had no interest or authority to rule on events retroactively.

[chrishcovga]

Now, since the Commish has established he can suspend people based on their college activities, he acts. He doesn't ban teams from drafting you -- but he does red-flag your draft papers. If you're signed or drafted by any NFL team, you are immediately suspended for X games based on your college arrest/trouble record. Because thanks to Frostee (if this stands) he can suspend NFL players for collegiate improprieties.

I'm no lawyer but the first thing I'd do is point out the fact that I wasn't under contract at the time of the incidents, and thus not subject to the NFL's personal conduct policy. I'd also pull up past statements made by Goodell claiming that he had no interest or authority to rule on events retroactively.

* With that being said, Maybe Frostee wins his appeal. - At the same time, Does anyone know when we will hear about O'Dells decision.

- I actually think Frostee will get the ( cold shoulder ) by Goodell. Gooddell won't make a decision on Frostee till after the season starts, Frostee will play in the Ravens game, and then GOD HELL will give him a longer suspension for failing to act upon his first suspension.

[HoosierCat]

Now, since the Commish has established he can suspend people based on their college activities, he acts. He doesn't ban teams from drafting you -- but he does red-flag your draft papers. If you're signed or drafted by any NFL team, you are immediately suspended for X games based on your college arrest/trouble record. Because thanks to Frostee (if this stands) he can suspend NFL players for collegiate improprieties.

I'm no lawyer but the first thing I'd do is point out the fact that I wasn't under contract at the time of the incidents, and thus not subject to the NFL's personal conduct policy. I'd also pull up past statements made by Goodell claiming that he had no interest or authority to rule on events retroactively.

Good points. On the latter, it seems to me that he is trying to rule retroactively in the Frostee matter; the idea that this is based on no more than an actual guilty plea seems a thin reed to me. On the former point, I suspect (if my legal logic is correct, I'm no lawyer either) that once you apply for entry into the NFL your past behavior can be taken into consideration regarding entry. That seems fairly uncontroversial to me; certainly companies can do background checks on employees and take the results into consideration.

But, since we both appear to agree that the Commish ought not to be able to bust players for stuff they did in college, let me take a cue from chrish and play devil's advocate: OK, Goodell doesn't try this "banned-upon-draft" strategy. Instead, he creates a new policy to sit aside the drug policy and the personal conduct policy. Call it...the "supervised entry" policy.

Under this policy, draftees tagged as high risk based on earlier troubles are subject to stricter scrutiny and harsher punishments than others. This might actually be a not-half-bad idea. Obviously it will push guys with problems down in the draft regardless of talent, but at the same time knowing you are under the gun from day 1 might get some guys to straighten up quicker. How's that for an idea?

[cincy9275]

i do believe goodell has some thing against black players and the bengals and i have said it before. the man is a idiot and if given enough rope he will hang himself. if he is going after frostiee why not castillo who admitted he used steroids or how about stienbac or even go back a little futher and just suspend justin for his dui or how about brat he had a dui a couple of years back to. my point was look at jared allen who has had multiple dui's and got his reduced to 2 games from 4 IMO because of the color of his skin. the guy is personally attacking the bengals and their players for no reason other that mikey did not support his move to commissioner. i hope and pray that o'dell wins his case and mikey slams his ass with a discrimination suite. because that is excatly what goodell is doing is discrimation. some will say well what about porter to me and i have said it in a earlier post that was just to try to hide the fact the goodell is a racist and a bigot. that makes him worse than pac man or vick. goodell should be removed now!!!!!!!!!!! what is it going to take goodell hiring david duke as his personal asstaint before people in power open thier eyes come on the guy is a joke.

[HairOnFire]

No, you're mixing up discussions here. We aren't talking about whether talent trumps character in the Bengals' decision to take, for example, Odell. We're talking about whether Goodell is going to vary his punish,ent of players based on whether they are NFL stars or NFL nobodies. Which is indeed an argument you made (and you were right) but not the one you're referring to.

Well, just as long as we agree that I was right.

But in my opinion it's not a simple discussion about whether Goodell is going to hand out punishment unevenly. In my opinion that was always a given, and just because I called it...hardly worth patting myself on the back.

Simply put, this isn't a crusade we're witnessing. This is marketing.

That said, I believe you're now suggesting that the ability to punish NFL players for events that happened in college will dramatically change the familiar risk/reward debate that so often results in owners and GM's drafting players with character risks.

I say it won't. Owners will still scan the draft pool for talented players who might fill their greatest need, and if those players are flawed enough to get the attention of Goodell the owner is still going to engage in the same risk/reward dance. And whether or not he chooses to actually dance with the devil depends on just how talented the devil is.

[HoosierCat]

Simply put, this isn't a crusade we're witnessing. This is marketing.

Of course. As long as were patting ourselves on the back, I said as much from the start.

That said, I believe you're now suggesting that the ability to punish NFL players for events that happened in college will dramatically change the familiar risk/reward debate that so often results in owners and GM's drafting players with character risks.

I say it won't.

Of course it will. Any ability on the part of the Commish to actually suspend NFL players for collegiate behavior pushes the the risk end up and the reward end down. I believe you characterized my position on the issue as the NFL front office and the owners coming to a "wink wink nod nod" arrangement on not drafting character risks. Well, call this the "slap slap bang bang" arrangement. Combined with the Commish's CBA-given ability to do...well, just about anything he wants, it's an effective ticket to undrafted FA, at best, for problem children.

[redsbengalsbucks]

If this suspension stands, I think Hair and I have a resolution to our conversation about whether the league might eventually try to ban certain players with off-field issues from being drafted. Answer: with this suspension, they just did. If you are a GM and know that even if you get control of the kid and he's a saint, he still might get suspended because of something he did years before he was drafted, do you touch the guy? Probably not.

If that were true then players in the last draft would have fallen round after round or not been selected at all, as was once predicted after Goodell fired his warning shots at team owners and GM's. In reality, Goodell's warning was repeatedly and overwhelmingly ignored by the real power brokers in the NFL....leaving Goodell to wage an entirely symbolic media campaign against the NFL foot soldiers. That being, the individual player.

And why not? Individual players lack their own staffs of lawyers and media consultants, and when it comes do defending themselves they quickly find that their financial clout is a pittance when compared to the NFL's resources. So Goodell can very easily crush a few players and make it appear that he's actually doing something substantial. In reality, nothing has changed save for an increased number of so-called positive NFL headlines. But even that is a sham as headline after headline written about suspended players can hardly be considered a positive under anything but the bleakest circumstances.

In regards to race, I'm torn. It's true that all of the players who have felt Goodell's special wrath have been black, but so have nearly all of the players who have escaped punishment for reasons nobody can seem to fathom. It's also true that the NFL rosters are now staffed predominantly by black players and the odds that they'd be involved over and over agin are good.

That said, I do squirm in my chair from time to time whenever I think about yet another white-skinned conservative Republican crushing the individual rights of a few people in the name of morality and the greater common good. Sorry, but that feels a little too familiar for my tastes...as does the sight of once proud young black men being forced to shuffle and bow before the man.

That is weird, I believe that Godell has to be a flaming liberal to be so inconsistent with his rules and punishments.

[SkinneymulleT]

The only racism involved here is from people who play the race card anytime a white person does anything involving a person of another race or when race is used as an excuse or disctraction to excuse an individuals actions. Those who raise that question without any evidence or indication of such bias are themselves racist by definition. This league is something like 85% black. College recruiting bias is even worse. Now coaches who have no nfl experience (see marvin) are given a fast lane pass just because they are of a certain ethnic background while those who do not share that ethnicity and have done nothing but be born into the world a certain color, are passed up despite thier hard work and superior qualifacations. That is racist by definition. With the exception of Tom Jackson, every single black commentator towed the line with michael vick, 1st denying he did anything, screaming racism, then immediately becoming apologists for him, even going so far as to say that his actions are part of black culture that white people dont understand and the law was biased against him! And before he served a day or was even suspended, they immediately said he should get his job back. Hmmm, what were people and groups saying about Imus and Rush? How were they treated? And Michael Irvin? Life liberty and Injustice for some...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms, but unless there proof of such, leave it alone.

[The PatternMaster]

If this is the case, shouldn't Goodell retroactively suspened guys like Leonard Little and Ray Lewis and every other player who plead guilty to a crime since they were an adult?

It's obivous God-ell gets pleasure from punishing the Bengals, it's like he saying through his actions "I know it's not fair what I'm doing but I'm the commissioner of the NFL and there's really nothing you can do about it". It's getting ridiculous at this point, if a Bengal player farts too loudly he could be suspended for a couple games under the rule of Emperor God-ell.

[The PatternMaster]

The only racism involved here is from people who play the race card anytime a white person does anything involving a person of another race or when race is used as an excuse or disctraction for to excuse an individuals actions. Those who raise that question without any evidence or indication of such bias are themselves racist by definition. This league is something like 85% black. College recruiting bias is even worse. Now coaches who have no nfl experience (see marvin) are given a fast lane pass just because they are of a certain ethnic background while those who do not share that ethnicity and have done nothing but be born into the world a certain color, are passed up despite thier hard work and superior qualifacations. That is racist by definition. With the exception of Tom Jackson, every single black commentator towed the line with michael vick, 1st denying he did anything, screaming racism, then immediately becoming apologists for him, even going so far as to say that his actions are part of black culture that white people dont understand and the law was biased against him! And before he served a day or was even suspended, they immediately said he should get his job back. Hmmm, what were people and groups saying about Imus and Rush? How were they treated? And Michael Irvin? Life liberty and Injustice for some...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms, but unless there proof of such, leave it alone.

wow..talk out of your ass much, there so much that is just factually wrong in this post I don't even know were to begin.

First off your definition of racism must be something you just made up. Secondly to imply that Marvin Lewis got his job because he is black shows me that your racist. You act like the colleges and the NFL give scholarships and millions of dollars to black athletes because they want to help them out, they do that because they give the universities and NFL teams the best chance to win.

You disgust me when you imply that these guys were given something that they clearly earned through talent and hard work. The saddest part is your so delusional that you really believe what you typed to be true and that there's nothing with that.

I love it when white guys become experts on racism and discrimination, next your going to tell me what it's like to give birth twins right.

[jjakq27]

Let's just stop the charade and do this. Cut the draft to four rounds because there aren't enough players without some sort of prior history and teams will be reluctant to take them with RG at the helm. Or maybe he should start penalizing teams based on their "performance" in the character issue arena. If a team has more than a certain number of incidents, they might be dropped down in the draft order or perhaps be penalized a draft pic or two. Sounds fair enough right?

[HairOnFire]

Any ability on the part of the Commish to actually suspend NFL players for collegiate behavior pushes the the risk end up and the reward end down. I believe you characterized my position on the issue as the NFL front office and the owners coming to a "wink wink nod nod" arrangement on not drafting character risks. Well, call this the "slap slap bang bang" arrangement. Combined with the Commish's CBA-given ability to do...well, just about anything he wants, it's an effective ticket to undrafted FA, at best, for problem children.

Not a chance. Even if Goodell is allowed to retroactively punish players for indiscretions that happen before they were selected by NFL teams, Chris Henry, Odell Thurman, Jarvis Moss, Marshawn Lynch, Brandon Merriweather, Eric Wright, and a buttload of others would still be drafted because the risk/reward argument remains fundamentally unchanged.

Granted, a player may slip a little farther than before, but perhaps not. It sure didn't happen in the last draft, right? Regardless, at some point a GM is going to look at his draft board and see that the player in question is now surrounded by prospects half as talented and the trigger will be pulled. The threat of an embarrasing one-game suspension for past crimes comitted be damned.

Finally, I find it odd that anyone would agree Goodell is acting hypocritically, handing out individual punsihment unfairly, giving star players special treatment, and due to marketing and image concerns overwhelmingly targeting one NFL team above all others, and then conclude that Mike Brown is somehow at fault for refusing to support Roger Goodell when he was a candidate for the commish job.

[redsbengalsbucks]

...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms.

I agree with this statement 100%, reverse discrimination is at least as bad if not more common.

It has gotten so a white male cannot get a skilled job, even when he is the most qualified because he does not fill a spot in the quota system the company uses for hiring. All quotas based on gender or race are inherently discriminatory and need to be banned from use. Equal opportunity should be what it says, an equal opportunity for all, not just minority applicants. The best qualified person should get the job whether he/she is white, brown, green, or polka dotted.